vietnam

Amid Cost Concerns, Senators Debate Adding New Diseases for Agent Orange Compensation

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Friday, September 24, 2010 at 4:26 pm

A military helicopter. (U.S. Army)

Though the last U.S. troops left Vietnam in 1973, many veterans still live with the war. And at a Senate Veterans Affairs Committee hearing Thursday at the U.S. Capitol, senators expressed concerns for everything from oversight to deficit spending in the discussion over whether to allow three new conditions to the Agent Orange Act. The legislation allows for compensation to veterans for the health effects from herbicide American planes sprayed to root out the Viet Cong.

[Security1] On August 31, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs approved three new ailments to the list of “presumptive” causes within the Agent Orange Act — ischemic heart disease, Parkinson’s Disease and hairy cell leukemia. The VA will be able to process new claims — as well as compensate earlier ones — at the end of October unless Congress votes to block it. VA officials estimate that this could add 250,000 new disability claims and cost about $42 billion over the next ten years.

Some have balked at the cost of providing more resources to health care given the deficit. President Obama’s Deficit Committee Co-Chairman, and former chair of the Veterans Affairs committee, Alan Simpson told the Associated Press about the Agent Orange Act rule-making authority, “The irony (is) that the veterans who saved this country are now, in a way, not helping us to save the country in this fiscal mess.” The group VoteVets called for his resignation, and Simpson has not apologized for the remarks. (Simpson did not respond to repeated requests for comment to TAI through the Deficit Commission.)

Alan Oates, chairman of the Vietnam Veterans of America Committee on Agent Orange, thought that was offensive. “It’s a slap in the face,” he said to TAI. Oates, who was exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam and has Parkinson’s Disease (one of the ailments recently added to the Agent Orange Act by the VA), added, “It’s taking care of some of the budget problems on the backs of veterans. When you send veterans into war, that there’s a cost for that, there’s a cost for health care once that war’s over.”

Others at the hearing also thought the idea was ludicrous because health care for returning veterans was a given. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), said, “This is part of the ongoing cost of war, more than guns and bullets and airplanes.” On the scientific link between Agent Orange and ischemic heart disease, Sanders said to VA Sec. Eric Shinseki, “I think we’re asking you to play God and you’re doing a good job but you’re not God.” He added, “Who is smart enough to make a determination? I’m not.”

Ischemic heart disease drew the most skepticism from the panel since it is common in older men (17 percent of men ages 60-69 have it, and 26 percent of men ages 70-79 have it).

Sens. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Jim Webb (D-Va.) have also raised other concerns about the new measure. “Heart disease is a common phenomenon regardless of potential exposure to Agent Orange,” said Sen. Webb in a letter to Shineski. “I have spent my entire adult life one way or the other involved in veterans law. But I do think we need to have practical, proper procedures,” he added. (However, at the hearing, Webb balked at the notion that his hesitation was about cost. “This is not about cost, it’s not,” he said in Thursday.)

Burr has also spoken of similar concerns. “At some point we will have to look at the definition of exposure,” he told the AP.

Burr, the ranking Republican on the committee, was not present at the hearing and was co-chairing the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee. (If Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski loses her re-election this November as a write-in candidate, then Burr is next in line to be ranking member of the committee.) Burr met with Sec. Shinseki on Thursday, and said his concerns had been answered satisfactorily. He said in a press release, “At the end of our discussion I was convinced that he [Gen. Shinseki] and his agency are prepared to handle these needed changes.”

Webb said in the letter to Shinseki, “The discussions were you could develop a chronological map overlay of where defoliants had been used, and then develop a nexus in someone’s service record on whether they had been in those areas. From that you could say whether these conditions would be presumptively acquired.” But many of the panelists at Thursday’s hearing said, that there’s little reliable data about what exposure was over forty years ago — therefore making it difficult, if not impossible, to pinpoint causality. Oates agreed. “Putting the burden back on the veteran to prove exposure when there was so much misuse of the project would be impossible. Veterans can’t account for every moment and every place they were, they had a job to do,” he said to TAI.

The science linking ischemic heart disease to Agent Orange exposure suggests a “limited/suggestive connection” according to the Institute Of Medicine in its 682-page 2008 report. Of course, it’s difficult to pinpoint any individual case to dioxin exposure, as opposed to other risk factors such as high cholesterol, smoking, genetics or other factors.

Linda Birnbaum, director of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences at NIH and director of the National Toxicology Program at the Department Health and Human Services, said, “in humans, dioxin is not causing a unique cardiovascular disease, but increases the risk of developing ischemic heart disease, which has a significant background incidence.” As for the time that had passed between the Vietnam War and now, she said, “Dioxin can permanently alter gene expression. Especially in Vietnam, a young man under additional stress that early — dioxin exposure adds to additional factors.”

The United States government sprayed 20 million gallons of herbicides, mostly Agent Orange, a dioxin compound,during the Vietnam War to defoliate forest with the aim of depriving the Viet Cong and the Army of the Republic of Vietnam from cover, from 1962 until 1971. The agent had obvious ecological effects of killing crops, but also had significant health effects on both veterans and the Vietnamese people. In veterans, the agent has been shown to caused an elevated risk of soft tissue cancers, Hodgkin’s disease, Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, spina bifida (in the children of veterans), soft-tissue sarcoma and chloracne.

The Agent Orange Act passed both houses of Congress unanimously in 1991. The act gave the VA the power to add new diseases to the list based on scientific literature reviews done by the Institute of Medicine.

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123 Comments

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III
Comment posted September 24, 2010 @ 11:32 pm

Aside from the negative ramblings of Senators Webb, and Burr I almost thought they were holding hands under the table. Every, and I mean Every member saluted Secretary Sinsheki, and his staff of expert medical professions for the studies, experiments, and researching the reasons that these 3 medical conditions should, and have been added to the registry for diseases. Every question ask by the panel was answered, and confirmed with documented proof to the satisfaction of all who had any doubts as to the validity of the facts. Senator Webb, took more than one opportunity to quote statements of the physicians, and was promptly told, ” I'm going to have to eat my words, since that time newer experiments have yielded results that would cancel those findings void”, this was not really what the Senator wanted to hear, judging from his expression of puzzlement that he had not the knowledge to debate any further. I watched the hearing in from start to finish, and noticed that there was no doubt, that the findings of the Secretary and his staff, and the vote to proceed with treating Vietnam Veterans with the praise, and honor we have never had before this time. Forty years is a long time to wait to hear the words, Welcome Home, We're Proud of What you have Done for this Country. God Bless America !!!!!!!
With tearful eye I feel, Proud. USNavy Hospitalman VietVet 67/68


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Drostberg
Comment posted September 25, 2010 @ 1:24 am

I'm afraid that the bargaining will now began, reduced percentages for IHD, to appease the senators.


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SGM (Ret) Jose A. Valentin
Comment posted September 25, 2010 @ 2:34 am

I'm a Veteran of Vietnam 1965 and again 1970. I developed Diabetis and slowly my health is deteriorating to the point I'm loosing my sight. To read about how these politicians are debating if we deserve compensation or not because it may undermine the economy of the United States and that the Veterans that served this country will hurt this country monetarily is B@ #@#. I have lost many friends in VietNam and some died from disease due to agent Orange. How can they actually even get up in the morning and say “I”m an American True and True, when they make more money for doing nothing and more likely never serve in the military or if they did maybe never serve in combat. As a Veteran and also a Life Member of the Veterans of Foreing Wars I will send correspondece for our fellow veterans to make sure we do not allow these individuals to serve in our Congress again. We need to vote them out.


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Poolshark150
Comment posted September 25, 2010 @ 1:58 pm

I Was So Proud Of MR Shienskis Speech Sticking Up For The Veterans & So Many Senators Men & Women Who Stood By Him,I Can't Believe That Senator Web Even Put Up A Chart With Another Marine . I Was In The Army & I'm Sure No Real Marimne Would Want To Even Acknoledge Trying To Make Vets Look Like Were The Enemy He Brought Back The Dishonor Of Our Goverment & How Us Vets Still See The Suffering Of Bad Treatment From The Goverment We Love. Well All But Him Who Now That He Made Vietnam Vets Look Like Cheats & I Did Not Smoke Or Drink & Never Did Drugs. I Went Through The Name Calling Spitting At Seatle Airport .I was Proud Of My Tour For The Greatest Country In The World & I Was Proud Of The Veterans Commitee Who Said They supported Our General For These Diseases. I couldn't Believe Mr Web Was Fighting Even Type @ Diabetiease Because Vets Get It. Guess Us Vets Are Moochers & Should Leave The Country Because Thats What Web Has Told The Public .He Should Not Be On Any Comitee Trying To Say He Is For Vets When Hes Even Trying To Take Awawy Benefits Vets Already Have Or Lie That Im For Vets But Thier Costing Us To Much Get Rid Of The Agent Orange Rulew Try To Put Down Our True Veteran General Of The Va. Fighting For Us . Did He Not Hear The Cost Of This Is Not The Issue From The Comitee I Believe Our General Took The evidence From The Science & Made The Right Tough Decission For Us Vets With Great Honor & I Believe (0% Of The Senators Have This Respect FOR Him. I Hope All The Vets Get The Help They Need Even Mr Webs Marine Veterans Who Also Know Problably Don't Resp[ect Him Any More.


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jerry
Comment posted September 25, 2010 @ 4:04 pm

Did the Ischemic Heart Disease of agent Orange pass 9/23/10????


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Krazykajun53
Comment posted September 25, 2010 @ 6:25 pm

At one time the U.S.A. shot traitors.

Now we elect them


Statueshade
Comment posted September 25, 2010 @ 8:16 pm

Senator Webb seems so concerned over the speculated 42 billion dollars to be spent over the next ten years. If we don't care for the veteran who sacrificed all and everything for this country what does he intend to divert that 42 billion dollars, his figure, to? I've seen alot of foolish spending out of Washington and than a legitimate appropriation comes along and it's questioned to the point of needless exhaustion. Where does the interest of these public servants really serve and protect?


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Jkaatz788
Comment posted September 25, 2010 @ 10:47 pm

Sgt Major: Good to see you are alive and still kicking. I was in Bhin Dhin Province in 1965-66 in Army Aviation, Also, flew combat missions throughout Vietnam. If you go to Open Secrets.org, you will find Monsanto and Dow lobbying data

and the chemical industry PAC. There you will find a list of Senators and Congressmen who receive PAC money, to and

including make the most noise about not giving veterans benefits. Also, risk management companies which consult the compnaies concerned, Monsanto and DOW seem to believe

that if veterans continue to put in claims about conditions related to the spraying in Vietnam it will someway have a negative impact on their stocks on Wall Street. Compaire the list with the names of elected officials who deal with Veterans

affairs issues in the House and Senate, Check against other committees they sit on as well and you will find the PAC interest. I am sorry to say that SMG Waltz receives PAC money as well from the companies concerned.

In 1965 our base of operations was sprayed and the Tiger Divisin Engineers began to build 36 helipads. Also, the B/Ops

was sprayed on regular basis along the fense lines to create a clear fire zone, The force of the spray by the chemical spraying helicopters spread across the entire compound. It got into everything and no one was spared. In many cpounds around VN spent oil from vehicles and aircraft were sprayed on roads to keep the dust down, These oils not only contains dioxins, the can contain other VOCs as well. Thus, the contamination factors went far beyond the herbicide spraying, Bihn Dhin Province was one of the most contaminated places in VN. Men who flew with Army Aviation were more apt to be exposed along with the troops transported on UH-1D & B helicopters

because they went into many LZ's that had been contaminated and the rotor wash (windstorm) generated by the blades blew contaminates, including pathogens around. Pathogens like p-sudemallies gram-negative could reamins dormant in the lungs up to 15 after men and women left the area of operaton. The half life of Dioxins according to a USAF study was 8.5 years.

Vietnam was therefore, a chemical and biological nightmare.

Most of the roads in compounds in Vietnam where spent oil was sprayed ended up like Times Beach, Mo. DOD many years ago did some internal studies on Deet and chemical sprays and found they were cancer causing agents as well.

Adm. Zumwalts son, once told me he had poured chemical insecticide over his head in an attempt to proctect himself from

mosequitoes that could cause malaria on the water ways that were patrolled by the Brown Water Navy and contributed such to his cancer and dimise. Solvent used to clean engine and aircraft parts were also highly toxic, Some more lethal than others. he chemical companies knowing ship chemicals for spraying (herbicides) that was contamianted far beyound the limits established at the time and were technically in violation of federal procurement regulations. They had the ability to produce a realtively clean product by changing the production methodes and cooking time of the herbicides – they chose not to do so because nothing more than greed and widfall profits.

In the mid 1970 period Dr. Rall and Dr. Johnson pointed out that the men were palced in a highly toxic environment. Rall went on to head NIH and Dr. Johnson headed the NTC at Pine Bluffs, Dr. Rall, foremr head of NIH died in Italy in a car accident. He knew more than 25 years the deadly nature of the spraying in Vietnam. Yes, you are correct SGM. a lot of these politicans have been working against the health and welfare of veterans and their children for years. Its all about greed and they clearly dont deserve to be elected to any kind of public office. Regards Jay (161AHC, 52nd ^ 14th Combat Avn Btns, 1st AVN Bdge.)

** The dark secert chemical companies dont want you to know is that the chemicals sprayed can also cause the onset of Lupus (SLE), they have to be reminded about the 200 plue U.S. Marines Evacuated from Vietnam with Lupus. Something Senator Webb should be reminded off.

Hillary Clinton has authorized millions of dollars to be sent to Vietnam to take care of Vietnamese and thir children impacted by the spraying of the hericides. I guess taking care of our former enemy is more important than taking care our soldiers.


FROSTE422
Comment posted September 26, 2010 @ 2:15 am

IM A 67 YR OLD FORMER MARINE I SERVED WITH 1ST MARINE DIV 11TH MARINES FROM JUNE 68 JUNE 60 BOYH IN PHU BI AND DANANG I MADE 3 MAJOR OPERATIONNS IN THE ASHU VALLEY AND FORMER SGT WHEN I TURNED 55 I STATED TO GET SICK I SHOOK I NIGHT MARES MY FEET HURT COULD HARDLEY WALK HBP PTSD AFETR SEVERAL C& PS AND BEING TURNED DOWN BY THE REGIONAL OFFICE MY CASE WENT TO BVA 1YR LATER THEY RATED ME 80% AND 20 % DUE TI UNEMPLOYMENT ABILITY ALSO TYPE 11 DIBITIS NO ONE IN FAMILY EVER HAD DIBITIS I WAS NOT OVER WEIGHT SO NOW IM BE TREATED AT VA RODOUSH BUSH VA HOSPITAL HERE IN INDIANAPOLIS TY GOD FOR VFW REP WHO HELPED ME STEP BY STEP MY HEALTH IS STILL FAILING BUT I THANK GOD VA WAS THERE TO HELP ME AND THE GREAT DRS AND STAFF AT THE VA HOSPITAL HERE IN INDY MY ADVISE TO YOU VEN NAM VETS DONT DONT GIVE UP ON YOUR CLAIM YOU DONT HAVE TO PROVE ANY THING ANY MORE IF YOU WERE IN NAM AND HAVE ANY OF THE 12 DISEASES ESPECIALLY PROSTATE CNACER TYPE 11 DIBITIS DONT GIVE UP GET IN THERE AND GET YOUR TREATMENTS SEE YOU LOCAL VSO OFFICER VFW AMERICAN LEGION VIET NAM VWTS ANERICA OR YOU NATIONAL SERVICE OFFICER BUT FIRST GO TO HEALTH AND HUMAN RESOURCES AT VA HOSPITAL AND DONT FORGET TO TAKE YOUR DD214 FORM IT WILL SHOW YOUR VIET NAM CONBAT RIBBION THATS ALL YOU NEED FOR PROOF AND DEMAND TO SEE A V.A DR SEMPER FI JE FROST VSO OFFICER POST 182 NEW PALESTINE IND GOD BLESS AMERICA


FROSTE422
Comment posted September 26, 2010 @ 2:20 am

CORRECTION 1968 TO 1969 VIET NAM


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Len Aldis
Comment posted September 26, 2010 @ 11:57 am

It was fifty-years ago that 80 million litres of Agent Orange was sprayed over areas of South Vietnam, resulting in many thousands of deaths and abnormal births amongst the Vietnamese. Today there are over 3.5 million suffering from illnesses and deformaties, yet not one cent has come from either the U.S. Government or the U.S. Chemical companies such as Monsanto, Dow etc.

Now the powers that be in the U.S. are fearful of the financial cost needed to compensate those who served in Vietnam on behalf of their country, how low can they get?

I'm not sure if any of the senators who are questioning paying the veterans were around around at the time of the Vietnam war, or indeed served in Vietnam. Perhaps they are concerned at the cost of those who served in Iraq and Afghanistan who will later claim for the illnesses etc from those wars.

I suggest they pay the compensation to their veterans and also to the Vietnamese – it was after all on Vietnam that Agent Orange was sprayed.

My final point would be if the senators are not prepared to compensate those they send to war, DON'T SEND THEM.

Len Aldis

London UK


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Sggamatx
Comment posted September 26, 2010 @ 2:37 pm

I am an Army vet who served in Vietnam 1970-71.I extended 2 months in order to get a 150 DAY EARLY OUT.Now I suffer from Type II Diabetes,Hearing loss and Heart Disease.I had open heart surgery in 1994 and suffered a heart attack in 2001.I was 47 when I had the by-pass surgery.There was no family history of any of these diseases.Now that the light has come on as to why this has happened 2 Senators are peeing in my boots and saying its raining outside.


Jdavis92840
Comment posted September 27, 2010 @ 6:31 am

Len,

Evidently you don't read any US news media.

The U.S. Congress just passed a $300m dollar bill over 10 years to clean it up…

Why is beyond me… everyone wants to cry poor vietnamese and koreans, what about the American soldiers who are sick, dying or have died and can't get any benefits or medical care?

We even used the stuff here stateside, and our own government denies it.

Years ago Congress made sure the chemical companies once sued the first time could never be sued again…


Jdavis92840
Comment posted September 27, 2010 @ 6:32 am

All the more reason to vote all incumbents out of office and continue to do so each November until we finally get a congress who listents and votes the will of the people and isn't out for their own interest!

Enough is enough… but you hide and watch, people will re-elect these people then sit back and complain about business as usual and an even deeper debt!


Jdavis92840
Comment posted September 27, 2010 @ 6:33 am

B-Cell (Harry Cell) Leukemia, Ischemic Heart Disease & Parkinson's


Jdavis92840
Comment posted September 27, 2010 @ 6:34 am

Of all the people FOR Veterans in DC, the only real friend is Secretary Shinseki, and he's done his level best to keep his word on every things he's promised!


Jdavis92840
Comment posted September 27, 2010 @ 6:37 am

Veterans have a voice, it's called a vote!

Vote all incumbents out of office each November till we get a Congress who actually listens and votes the will of the people not their will.

They work for us, we do NOT work for them!


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Comment posted September 27, 2010 @ 11:51 am

Hmmm…I'm freaking out here… x(


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Why is beyond me… everyone wants to cry poor vietnamese and koreans, what about the American soldiers who are sick, dying or have died and can't get any benefits or medical care?


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Al Markley
Comment posted September 27, 2010 @ 9:44 pm

Even if we accept the premise that up to 26% of men by the age of 79 have ischemic heart disease, most of Nam vets are not nearly that old. As for myself I started having problems from this disease by the age of 30. It started with an erratic heart beat, hypertension, shortness of breath, and recently a TIA. So, because 1 in 4 may have developed the problem the answer is to screw over the other 3 out of 4? Way to take care of those who have given so much.


comcast
Comment posted September 28, 2010 @ 1:15 am

I agree that everyone who says “thank you for your service” should be first in line to vote to take care of our service men and women.

If we had a single payer healthcare system, we would not need to spend a dime on lobbyist or awareness campaigns to pass legislation such as this. Congress could work on other equally important issues because this would already be handled. There would be FAR fewer lawsuits clogging the court system where the attorneys take their share off the top and leave a pittance for the victim.

AND all the 9/11 first responders would ALSO be taken care of. They are still waiting for an act of congress – literally – to get healthcare for all the aliments they now have from breathing the toxic dust at the world trade center site.

AND maybe we'd stop subsidizing sugar and start subsidizing organic products.


Howardkinsella
Comment posted September 28, 2010 @ 3:54 am

i used to have a map of the concentrated area's, phu loi and many others had such heavy concentrations sprayed on them during june of 67 thru june of 68 , who knew senators who new, not soldiers on the ground , i don't know if the way i am or the the illnesses are caused by agent orange , but i know one thing when my country called on me i was there , and i didn't gripe about that big pay check each month, ha , ha , myself and thousands of other guys and women served their country well , to bad our soon to be ex senators and congressmen don't


Norman Dvorak
Comment posted September 28, 2010 @ 10:10 am

If America stopped sending any of our tax dollars to other Countries until every Veteran is taken care of, every Veteran has a place to live, every Veteran has 100% medical coverage and every person in the United States who is an American legally is living above the poverty level. Then and only then if there is money left over should we send our tax dollars to other Countries. Our Government needs to return to Of the People, By the People and For the People instead of Of the Government, By the Government and For the Government as it is now.


Al Markley
Comment posted September 28, 2010 @ 12:12 pm

Many of us spent time in Laos, even though we weren't there, wink. I was chosen to be part of Operation Duck Blind. Of course we certainly spent NO time in Laos. Most of the time my unit fought in the central highlands. There was a lot of dead trees in that area. These REAM's don't have a clue what we went through. We didn't do it for the money, we did it for our country. Now stop griping and meet our needs.


Amodgling
Comment posted September 28, 2010 @ 3:53 pm

Tell these fools that it was in the water. We drank it, showered in it, brushed our teeth with it, food grew in it, cooked with it. One did not have to be sprayed with it.


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Mac
Comment posted September 29, 2010 @ 10:26 pm

“Ischemic heart disease drew the most skepticism from the panel since it is common in older men (17 percent of men ages 60-69 have it, and 26 percent of men ages 70-79 have it).” How about those of us who had a 3x bypass at the age of 43, and my older brother had 2 heart attacks the same year, at the age of 46, where do we fit in those statistics?


London46
Comment posted September 30, 2010 @ 12:04 am

I am 64, a Vietnam veteran. I was a medic and served in the bush from 66-67. For the last seven to eight years I have been turning up with an increasing array of symptoms not of which the least is severe wide spread pain which has progressed to a state where it is present in some form 24/7. In the last two years it has progressed to the point a chronic heart condition requiring two stents has evolved. They tell me now the corrodid is now about 35% obstructed. The day before yesterday they did a MRI over concern there could be a brain tumor. Seems with each week something new is on the horizon. I still work full time. Some of the medications are increasing the challenge before me. For how much longer I can do this I don't know but I know I have no desire to head for the pasture.

I spent my years after Nam following college in international marketing. I started two companies, taught a little college and raised three boys. I have been active all my life out doors. Right now I am having a hard time even typing this.

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I would agree that just because someone has heart disease or any other problem is not in and of itself cause for treatment and benefits. Good judgement should be in order. We have have the tools and where with all to make determinations. Get with it!!!!!

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Does anyone know if congress has or will likely block compensation for ischemic heart disease? I emailed both Mo. senators the same question, neither has saw fit to get back to me. Government inaction!


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my husband had to get open heart surgey at 44 he retired in 76 and until he died in 02 he had 14 heart caths and angoplasty with grafs in both legs and he suffered greatley for such a young man and the va turned down his claim and also our son is mildly autistic and they are still turning down our claim if anyone knows of where we csn get help please let me know god bless susie duncan suz9092@aol.com


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I get so tired of reading that this ischemic heart disease is costing the tax papers so much money don”t people realize our men and women were over there fighting for these tax payers it's all about greed, I want to see everyone of these soliders men and women get what they deserve I am married to one and he is my hero and I just got to say thanks to all the other heros out there. God bless all of you!


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My husband was a in Chu lia Vietnum in 68-69, he has cardiovascular disease, I tryed getting him help in 1999 for his deterateing heath, only to suffer needlessly, when the VA would of help him from the beging, I went so many times an was turned away because this supposely didnt happen in the war they said, after about 6 yrs latter an fileing backruptcy twice for over 50 thousand dollars of medicale co-payment diet, We finally went directly to the Va hospital in Chicago an he finallly got help. What concerns me now about the Ascimic heat disease findings related to agent orange, Ive read how it can effect these men or womens children, Ive had 2 misscarages , I wonder is this related to agent orange an are one child that is living, what I read it effect 29 to 40 yr old children, Im at a lost here at what to do, I have a appointment to file the paper work, but how much of this agent orange has been actually effected in are lives. moore3124@centurylink.net


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