Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

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Tuesday, March 23, 2010 at 6:00 am
Tea Party demonstrators on Capitol Hill on Sunday (Photo by David Weigel)

Tea Party demonstrators on Capitol Hill on Sunday (Photo by David Weigel)

The moment that the House of Representatives passed the health care reform bill, 10 Republican state attorneys general were ready for it. Early Monday morning, Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli announced plans to sue on the grounds that the federal government was abusing its “power to regulate interstate commerce” by passing a personal mandate for health care. Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum agreed, calling the mandate an attempt “to fine or tax someone just for living.” On the surface, conservative opposition to universal health care had dusted itself off and charged right back into the fight.

[GOP1]But beneath the headlines, press releases, petitions and donation drives that followed the historic vote, lawyers and legislators are less confident that health care reform can be repealed — much less that it can be repealed quickly. In Idaho and Tennessee, two states where state opt-outs of the federal mandate have passed (in Idaho, the legislation has even been signed by the governor), the people who will decide whether to challenge the bill are treading more carefully than the rhetoric suggests.

“Everybody needs to take a deep breath,” said Bob Cooper, a spokesman for Idaho Attorney General Lawrence Wasden. “This bill is a few thousand pages long. We need some time to review it. We need time to see whether or not it impinges on rights, how so, and whether we can bring a case that has merit. There are serious sanctions for attorneys who file frivolous lawsuits.”

Mae Beavers, a Republican state senator in Tennessee, was also cautious about how to proceed with a health care challenge. Her Tennessee Health Freedom Act sailed through the upper house, becoming a model for pre-emptive opt-out bills in other states. And while she expects a companion bill to move through the lower house, the possibility of an immediate challenge to the reform bill seemed remote.

“Our legislation says that whenever the national health care would start, our citizens will have a choice,” said Beavers. “I assume it would take a while to put together.”

The problem with a challenge, say conservatives, is that the mandate for health care — an idea with origins on the right that has become anathema ever since its implementation in Massachusetts — will not take effect until 2014. Whether attorneys general can successfully challenge the mandate until then is unclear. Thomas Woods, a conservative scholar who is putting the finishing touches on a Regnery-published book about nullification, suggested that challenges to the mandate will be fruitless, working their way through a legal system that has no great record of repealing major legislation.

“If states file legal challenges,” asked Woods, “who do they file them with? The federal courts! I wouldn’t even go to the legal level. From my point of view nullification is a way to announce to the government that your state is ready to engage in civil disobedience. It boils down to this: We are confident that obeying the will of the people means not enforcing this mandate. So what are you going to do now?”

Michael Boldin, the president of the Tenth Amendment Center — founded in 2009 to organize for such fights on behalf of state sovereignty — told TWI that legal challenges of any kind were the “first step” to opposing health care reform. But he envisioned the resistance to the mandate taking a more low-key form: Simple, persistent disobedience.

“If I were to reduce this whole thing down to one word,” said Boldin, “I’d say: Marijuana. Look at medical marijuana in California. California passed a medical marijuana law and the federal government said it couldn’t do so, under the supremacy clause. But people continued to disobey laws and it cost more money to enforce them then to ignore them.”

As difficult as a repeal of health care reform would be, as realistic as the disobedience plan sounds, neither approach to the issue satisfies the high-level legal groups, pundits and politicians who have campaigned against reform. Prior to the health care vote, on the Friday episode of his Fox News show, Glenn Beck showed Sarah Palin a map of states with opt-out bills in the works — many of them dominated by Democrats, where the legislation has no chance of success.

“These are all the states that are saying, ‘No health care for us. Get your health care bill away from us,’” said Beck. “What do you think of this solution as a former governor?”

“Let’s be thankful for… those governors who want to lead their citizens to have their voice heard with this ObamaCare scheme coming down the pike,” said Palin. “That’s abhorrent. It’s unacceptable. And legal tools must be used.

Beck and Palin were only slightly ahead of the curve — the final 72 hours of the debate saw surge in the number of Republican politicians promising constituents that health care reform could be stopped at the courts. At Saturday’s “Code Red” rally in front of the Capitol, Rep. Zach Wamp (R-Tenn.), a candidate for governor of Tennessee, promised activists he’d meet federal regulators “at the state line” if elected. On Sunday, Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.), a candidate for governor of Michigan, raised the possibility of blocking reform “at the ballot box” or “in the courts.” On Monday, Florida U.S. Senate candidate Marco Rubio endorsed Attorney General McCollum’s potential lawsuit — on a mid-afternoon Fox News appearance, former Gov. Jeb Bush (R-Fla.) praised Rubio and chided his rival, Gov. Charlie Crist (R-Fla.), for not backing the suit.

Conservative legal groups have taken much the same tack. Last week, the Landmark Legal Foundation — nominally run by conservative author and radio host Mark Levin — prepared a draft legal brief challenging any health care bill that the House “deemed passed” without a vote. Because the House held a full vote on the bill, the foundation scrapped that brief and, according to vice president Eric Christiansen, moved on to assisting attorneys general with whatever they decided to do.

“We want to see this thing defeated,” said Christiansen. “However we can leverage our resources and make the biggest impact, that’s what we’ll do.”

For the first time in the health care debate, however, opponents of the reform package face a complicated, uncertain struggle at odds with the promises and podium-pounding that marked the year of opposition.

“I don’t know what people are telling their donors,” said Curt Levey, executive director of the conservative Committee for Justice, “but litigation is always lengthy especially where, as here, the final answer will likely come from the Supreme Court… Courts will typically move things along faster when a case is as important as this one, but it’s unlikely that we would get a final decision from the Supreme Court before the 2011-2012 term.”

Levey’s take was in line with that of Idaho’s Cooper, hard at work in one of the AG offices that’s viewed to have the best chance of challenging the mandate.

“We’re not trying,” said Cooper, “to win a race to the courthouse.”

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ajm8127
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 2:22 pm

It's nice to see Corporate America has its own grassroots movement. The only thing is I don't think the Tea Partiers realize that's who they are fighting for.


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alive and happy
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 3:54 pm

i wonder what would have happened if the democrats tried to pull this same sh*t with both of bush's tax cuts – both passed by reconciliation and both unpaid for – and medicare part d – also passed via reconciliation.

this attitude of “it's wrong and illegal when i don't like it” has disturbingly become the norm for the GOP and will hopefully wind up causing the death of their party.

oh, and by the by, the GOP is just as much to “blame” for the bill passing as the democrats. here's my reasoning: if the GOP hadn't so egregiously blown the last 8 years perhaps the democrats wouldn't have had such a huge majority in both chambers (let alone control of the white house) such that this overhaul may have been a non-starter.


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jb11115
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 4:29 pm

You sound so clueless like so many who do no homework before talking. I am not a Republican and I support these efforts. Stop branding everything and everyone a Republican or a Democrat. This is a very, very complicated issue and even 32 Democrats in the House did not agree with this legislation.

You sound like a simpleton with a simple point of view.


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cazart
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 4:57 pm

“This is a very, very complicated issue and even 32 Democrats in the House did not agree with this legislation. “

Actually, it's not. You've either been scared/fooled/paid off by the insurance companies, or you're working on your own behalf. Yesterday, if you slipped and fell, you could have been financially ruined – even if you had insurance and played by the rules. Today, that is no longer true. And the people who were making a 40% profit on the deal will now only make a 20 percent profit. I can understand why they fought it so hard – I can't understand why you would.


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Scott
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 5:07 pm

I think the health care debate will be eclipsed by the state of the economy. The health care plan isn't ideal, but some of the objections about socialism are out on the fringe. If the economy doesn't improve, the Democrats will have real problems.


jumpingamma
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 5:10 pm

I just read your note , the GOP was not in control I think you better check your facts, the DEMS controled both congress and the senate, why do you think they are now being voted out. I am thinking you really think health care reform is what is needed, well ask the post office how well the gov handles things, or as those on ssi how they think the gov is doing , do you realize that those on ssi will receive no cost of living raise for the next 2 yrs at least, but thier medicare keeps raising every year, I hope you or none of your loved ones have paid into what they thought was a good retirement for 35+ years because it was backed by the gov. well they keep spending the ssi and so you see no only will this health care reform that is now forced down our throats cost more for all it is going to hurt those who live on limited incomes, but again remember Bush's could not pass any thing because the Democrates voted everything down …I do not want the gov telling me I have to buy and pay for something for 4-5 years before I can use it.I would not buy anything I can't touch or use immediately, when I buy insurance for my car or my home , they are in effect when I pay my first premium..if you are not for health reform .. then I am sorry I read your letter wrong….May God bless America, we sure need it now.


AlexG
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 5:15 pm

Haha, Republicans are praying for activist judges to overturn a law passed by majorities in the Congress and signed by the elected President.


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Guess what
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 6:00 pm

News Falsh we the people will have problems not just democrats!!!!! Hello!!!! It's one world folks and we alll are in it Democrats, Replubicans, Conservatives, etc….


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cassiocm
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 6:09 pm

Republicans are going to drive this country to the ground….


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LoveIsAllWeNeed
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 6:28 pm

FYI – Republicans passed all they wanted when they were in power using the same “reconciliation” process used to pass healthcare reform. And you are forced to buy insurance if you own an automobile because it too was deemed in the best interests of the society as a whole to not have uninsured drivers on the road. (A Republican backed initiative also by the way). It is one thing to oppose something on its merits. It is another to oppose it out of ignorance. A few suggestions: Do some homework on the benefits this bill will offer YOU. And then research the true cut-throat tactics the insurance companies are guilty of. Then, spend a few moments being thankful that you are privileged to have health insurance and not be among the millions who don't. Finally, be careful putting your valuable energy in opposition of things you can only view from your perspective and instead have a compassionate demeanor for those who may not have access to some of the benefits you enjoy.


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republicanstupidity
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 7:18 pm

The economy is already starting to recover! Look at where it was!


republicanstupidity
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 7:19 pm

another one that wants to change the past. Both Bush Tax Cuts Republicans held the Majority…Look it up and learn something!


republicanstupidity
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 7:21 pm

AND???? How much you want to bet that all 32 of these so called Congressmen will see a primary challenge?? Except for Davis who wants to be Governor of Alabama!


lbg323
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 7:40 pm

the “lets attack and defeat the other side, no matter what they say or do” MO is what's going to drive this country into the ground.


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jumpingamma
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 8:11 pm

by the way I do not have any health insurance, but I do have children , and grandchildren, I do not want the health care but it does not matter because I am an american with no freedom of choice because you and others want the goverment to carry them , I will have to have something I do not want….that is the american way.
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Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

LoveIsAllWeNeed (unregistered) wrote, in response to jumpingamma:

FYI – Republicans passed all they wanted when they were in power using the same “reconciliation” process used to pass healthcare reform. And you are forced to buy insurance if you own an automobile because it too was deemed in the best interests of the society as a whole to not have uninsured drivers on the road. (A Republican backed initiative also by the way). It is one thing to oppose something on its merits. It is another to oppose it out of ignorance. A few suggestions: Do some homework on the benefits this bill will offer YOU. And then research the true cut-throat tactics the insurance companies are guilty of. Then, spend a few moments being thankful that you are privileged to have health insurance and not be among the millions who don't. Finally, be careful putting your valuable energy in opposition of things you can only view from your perspective and instead have a compassionate demeanor for those who may not have access to some of the benefits you enjoy.

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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jumpingamma
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 8:14 pm

I said nothing about changing the past,just would like a future with choices like every american is entitled too. I don't want to have to have health insurance because some politician said I have to, I am still an american and have rights well I did, I do not have health care of any kind but that is choice, and I do not believe americans should be forced to buy something they do not want…..if that is the case just like the song goes, if you believe that , I have ocean front property in arizona, want to buy that sight unseen too…..
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: mckriter6@msn.com<mailto:mckriter6@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:19 PM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

republicanstupidity wrote, in response to jumpingamma:

another one that wants to change the past. Both Bush Tax Cuts Republicans held the Majority…Look it up and learn something!

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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Sovereign Person
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 8:21 pm

Re: “This bill is a few thousand pages long. We need some time to review it. We need time to see whether or not it impinges on rights…”

Gee, too bad Congress didn't do that BEFORE they passed it!


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chrisjay
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 9:22 pm

Where was your outrage when GW & Cheney were using the Constitution for toilet paper? Now suddenly, you feel that your 'rights' are being threatened? Go back to your Foxaganda pablum-induced coma for another coupla years and in 2012, send all your $$$ to whichever rightwing huckster convinces you that he/she will restore this country to the freakish fantasy of a Bircher utopia which you think might conjure some phony “good old days” in your addled memory. We're gonna have a big “Values”-themed party in 2012 and wingnuts are cordially invited—-be fore-warned that it won't go the way you would like…


mantis
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 9:25 pm

Like he said, Republicans are going to drive this country into the ground.


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Shade Tail
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 11:05 pm

These challenges are all bunk. And what's more, these Reich Wingers are now revealing what they really mean by activist judges: judges who legislate from the bench **to the detriment of the GOP**. As long as the GOP actually like the judicial legislation, they don't complain.


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Patriot
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 11:30 pm

I guess activist judges are ok when you like the outcome.


Patriot
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 11:32 pm

If you don't have health insurance, then you want the rest of us to carry YOU when you get injured or sick. Grow up and take some personal responsibility for a change.


Lyris
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 11:56 pm

Isn't that nice those states have lots of money and they can afford to sue? I guess everyone is those states have health insurance that's inexpensive and won't claim “pre-existing conditions” on any of these people.


Lyris
Comment posted March 23, 2010 @ 11:58 pm

The gop were already turned down with their first complaint.


Lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:01 am

I guess not all activist judges are intelligent and honorable. Certainly that 's true with the right wing judges.


Lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:04 am

Haha, that doesn't mean they'll win, only that they are corrupt and stupid.


Lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:11 am

You mean the gop congress can actually read?


Lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:12 am

The problem is that chimpy didn't put both wars, tax breaks to the wealthy and other expenses in his budgets. Instead he borrowed trillions of dollars from other countries like China and Saudi Arabia.

Most of the expense in President Obama's budget goes to the INTEREST of Debts chimpy gave us.

It's a shame most of the righties either don't know this, don't care, or refuse to believe the truth.


Lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:13 am

Tell that to the gop.


Lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:14 am

And they didn't abuse the filibuster either, did they? Surrrrre.


Lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:16 am

The gop also wasted money on the most pork in the history of the United States.


Lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:20 am

You really don't know anything about the health care reform do you jumpinggamma? You can keep your health insurance if you want to. You have been lied to by your gop elected officials, which is nothing new.

Contrary to popular gop rumor your insurance company will be still be in charge of you health insurance, but they won't be able to drop you when you really need you. It's a shame you are happy with that.


lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:22 am

I guess some people don't care if their children get sick and risk of getting worse, or die.


lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:25 am

I disagree. Most Americans wanted health care reform, many were upset when the public option was taken out of the bill which was why the poll went down, but hopefully we will change that.


lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:31 am

That's true. I have to be operated on because my Crohns Disease got badly infected and ate a hole in my small and large intestine. I was in the hospital for eleven days and out of work for many months trying to heal. I lost my house and damaged my credit because I couldn't pay for utilities. I had to sell my house at a great lost and most of what I got went to pay the finance company that owned my mortgage, and of course the utilities and town tax.

Trust me it can happen to anyone.


lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:33 am

The Montana “freeman” haven't a clue what the 10th amendment is. They should read it sometime. Then they won't look like fools. But maybe they can't read.


jumpingamma
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:33 am

excuse me I was outrages when GW, Cheney and Clinton messed up too , but this is not the place to be calling people names , I was raised to believe if you call names it is because you don't really believe what you are mad about and can think of nothing else to say but calling people names….I do not live in a fantasy world , haven't since I was a kid. I am a long way from a kid, I see thing quite clearly…I hope you all are right, my biggest complaint is that we no longer have a choice…..america the free is no longer…..now it is you buy what you don't want because the goverment said so…I do not want the goverment telling me if I can go to the doctor of choice and not have to pay for everyone else. Like I said before I will not buy the health care that is offered, my fines and all the others with opposition to this who chose not to buy our fines can be added to our already extreme deficite….I don't know what the Foxagenda pablum-induced coma is , I don't follow any news forums, so if you are talking of a news channel let me know where I can find this…thank you..God bless you and America
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: mckriter6@msn.com<mailto:mckriter6@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:23 PM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

chrisjay wrote, in response to jumpingamma:

Where was your outrage when GW & Cheney were using the Constitution for toilet paper? Now suddenly, you feel that your 'rights' are being threatened? Go back to your Foxaganda pablum-induced coma for another coupla years and in 2012, send all your $$$ to whichever rightwing huckster convinces you that he/she will restore this country to the freakish fantasy of a Bircher utopia which you think might conjure some phony “good old days” in your addled memory. We're gonna have a big “Values”-themed party in 2012 and wingnuts are cordially invited—-be fore-warned that it won't go the way you would like…

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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jumpingamma
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:36 am

I do not have health care do not want to buy health care, but with this policy I have too, that is not choice….I do not deal with a insurance company and don't want too. but now am being told I have too , is that right
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: mckriter6@msn.com<mailto:mckriter6@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:20 PM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

Lyris (unregistered) wrote, in response to jumpingamma:

You really don't know anything about the health care reform do you jumpinggamma? You can keep your health insurance if you want to. You have been lied to by your gop elected officials, which is nothing new.

Contrary to popular gop rumor your insurance company will be still be in charge of you health insurance, but they won't be able to drop you when you really need you. It's a shame you are happy with that.

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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jumpingamma
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:38 am

I do not want anyone to pay for me, I go to the doctor 1 time a year, and have for the last 10 years, I pay my own way and I pay full price, my husband had surgery 5 years ago, we paid over 20,000 for the surgery I ask no one for help so don't worry sweetie I don't want anything from you or the goverment, it is people who like this that want others to pay for them…not me.
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: mckriter6@msn.com<mailto:mckriter6@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:32 PM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

Patriot (unregistered) wrote, in response to jumpingamma:

If you don't have health insurance, then you want the rest of us to carry YOU when you get injured or sick. Grow up and take some personal responsibility for a change.

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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lyris
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:38 am

I am offended by having those fools call tea partiers. The original Tea Party was fought against East India Tea Company who had an agreement with Great Britain. My ancestors were involved with this, and went on to fight in the Revolutionary War.

These fools that look ridiculous parading around with tea bags hanging of their hates are puppets for corporations.


jumpingamma
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:42 am

what
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: mckriter6@msn.com<mailto:mckriter6@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:14 PM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

Lyris (unregistered) wrote, in response to jumpingamma:

And they didn't abuse the filibuster either, did they? Surrrrre.

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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jumpingamma
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:43 am

how many children do you have? I and my husband raised 9 and we had no health care, back when our children were growing there was no such thing as health insurance through state care. we paid for the care they needed out of pocket … will your children be able to afford this , I lost a child and so don't tell me I don't care, we paid over 500,000 in medical for our child and still lost her. how much do others pay to keep thier children alive, you should not mention something you don't have information on, having health care would not have saved my child and so don't think it will.
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: mckriter6@msn.com<mailto:mckriter6@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:22 PM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

lyris wrote, in response to jumpingamma:

I guess some people don't care if their children get sick and risk of getting worse, or die.

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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jumpingamma
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 12:49 am

so I can still not buy health care if I want too. I don't deal with health care insurance now out of choice, I ask no one to pay for me I and mine pay for ourselves everyone should be able to live with in thier means


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Kevin
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 3:38 am

Bill McCollum is an oportunist. He has been a horrible AG in Florida (my state) and is using the Republican base's unhappiness with the legislation to fuel his fight. While many constitutional experts see these suits as futile, McCollum has no problem wasting state money to further his gubernatorial campaign, making him the conservative candidate to vote for… thank you McCollum for letting me know where pledge your allegiance so that I may vote against you… so much for fiscal conservatism…
———————————–
http://www.themidnightreview.com


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donwade
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 4:16 am

jumpingamma,

520,000$ You paid out in health care? 9 kids? So you are already very wealthy, and enjoying the American dream. Having health care would not have saved your child? Then why did you try? You spent 500,000 on a hopeless cause? I personally do not believe a word you are saying. You have all these scenarios you make up out of thin air to fit your arguement at the time. As long as you live in MY country you WILL pay your share for the well being of it's citizens. Be it a new school, a road, military, police, firemen. You do not get to pick and choose who and what cause you help and still enjoy all the benefits of my country. And if you feel you have no benefits in my country then leave. Isn't that what Righties say all the time? Leave if you don't like it? Well get out.


kalla
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 4:28 am

Democrat majority in “Chimpy's” 2nd term Congress, including Obama, gave us economic crisis. Both parties are corrupt, but Republicans are at least listening to the people for now. They are working for us? Let's all walk hand-in-hand and evolve down the “yellow brick road” to Communism with our Socialistic/Marxist Obama administration as our grand wizard. Check out the fall of Roman Empire or more recently the fall of Greece


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Isabel Smith
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 6:35 am

I cannot see how the government can do any good in this health care — other than to bog it down with more paper work and discrimination as to who gets health care and what kind of health care goes to various individuals — plus a health care that includes the support of abortion — its all way out of hand. There is a better way, but our president is too impatient and too full of himself to pursue it — he just does not the display the type of maturity and discipline required to stand on good decisions: After all, “I am the president'' is something he still has to tell himself. Its just truly sad.


karela
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 1:09 pm

Republican activists are trying to force their repeal views on people but the inside line is that these law suits are very unlikely to succeed and are VERY likely to waste a mountain of money. In Washington state the republican attorney general announced that he was going to file a law suit against health reform and the governor, speaker of the state house and leader of the state senate announced their opposition to him. Washington state overwhelmingly voted for Obama because they wanted health reform. The AG got elected because of the support he had from leading democrats, but now the guy wants to run for governor and thinks this will help him. Good luck with that. The governor, in a statement, said that the AG is supposed to have her as a client but that she intends to file suit against him if he tries to go it alone and force this suit on the state. He won't win in state or out and he is clearly working for the republican party and not the state he represents. It won't work. Buh Bye!


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Metal Prophet
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 4:50 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by a better way. If you recall, the Republicans dominated government from 2002 'till 2006 and they had plenty of opportunity to pass some sort of health care reform. They did nothing except for Medicare Part D, which was a huge insurance company giveaway. Personally, I cannot see how a for-profit company can do any good in providing health insurance. Their incentives for getting into the business are completely counter to providing good insurance to everyone.


Metal Prophet
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 4:53 pm

You have forfeited the right to be taken seriously with this commie and Nazi bullshit. Do you have any actual idea of what takes place under communism? Do you have any inkling of history? Study up, learn something, and maybe we can have a serious debate then.


chrisjay
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 5:03 pm

Lady, your mind appears to be a sequential laundry list of Foxaganda talking points.Obama is egotistical/immature. The gubmint can do no good. Healthcare reform=abortion. All you left out is Death Panels. Your regressive mindset is what is truly sad. You need to stop living in fear of the 21st century world. Turn off Fox to begin your journey into the real world


Mike
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 5:26 pm

With the passage of this bill. It appears from http://www.HealthInsuranceSource.net and http://www.AHealthInsuranceQuote.com analysis that employers nationwide will be assessed a $2,000 penalty for every employee not offered group health insurance or commonly referred to employer sponsored health insurance. Does this include part time employees that traditionally didn’t qualify or buy health insurance in the first place because of the cost vrs. Hours worked? How in the world is an employer going to absorb this cost? So if an employee doesn’t want to participate in paying their share, the employer is penalized $2,000?


jumpingamma
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 5:56 pm

no dear I am not wealthy I worked for minimum wage my whole life, the wage I was started at in 1967 was 1.65 an hr. my husband was making 5 an hour. the children we raised were ours and others who could not afford them. I had 4 of my own, 3 of his and 2 of someone who was not stable to raise children, I was raised to take care of my own and to help those who are not able too. my parents had 7 children together when they married they taught me to take care of those who can not that is not my problem, I will gladly help you with what you need but, God takes care of those who take care of themselves. I my self do not want the goverment health care, but I believe those who need it should have it, just saying I should also have a choice, I pay taxes just as I am sure you do..I also help others who can not help themselves be it from thier on faults or the fault of someone else, I believe all Americans have a choice in what they buy, if you don't then go buy a new car from the goverment run agencys. I will not but that is my choice, with the health care we have no choice, my family and I do not use credit we pay for what we want by saving until we can afford it..it took me several years to pay off my medical bills, I am proud of the feats we have had, I hope nothing but the best for you and I hope you never are question about things in your life…why try to save a child because as long as their is life there is hope…you must be to young to yet understand if you are not I am sorry if I offended, my only thought is I want to still have a choice…if your choice is health care reform good for you, I still chose to take care of me and mine in the way I always have…God bless you and God bless America
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: mckriter6@msn.com<mailto:mckriter6@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

donwade wrote, in response to jumpingamma:

jumpingamma,

520,000$ You paid out in health care? 9 kids? So you are already very wealthy, and enjoying the American dream. Having health care would not have saved your child? Then why did you try? You spent 500,000 on a hopeless cause? I personally do not believe a word you are saying. You have all these scenarios you make up out of thin air to fit your arguement at the time. As long as you live in MY country you WILL pay your share for the well being of it's citizens. Be it a new school, a road, military, police, firemen. You do not get to pick and choose who and what cause you help and still enjoy all the benefits of my country. And if you feel you have no benefits in my country then leave. Isn't that what Righties say all the time? Leave if you don't like it? Well get out.

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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Sandra Willis
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 5:58 pm

The Health Care situation has been going on for several decades… the GOP has always opposed any change, or never tried to change/help the avererage or poor Americans. Now, you say this is a very bad Bill that we've passed. If you had a better plan, what was it? In the words of Whoopie Goldberg…”We want what you got”, so unless this is your plan….GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!


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mom
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 11:52 pm

the economy is turning around really, where I live the report in the paper showed unemployment is up last month it was at 12.6 this month is 16.9 how is that a turn around. that just means more people who make under the magic number of 88,000 a year who will get free or reduced health care…


mom
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 11:53 pm

thank you , you understand we are not just dems rep, con, etc. we are americans and we are in this together….good job


chrisjay
Comment posted March 25, 2010 @ 6:12 am

just like a Teatard to take insurance industry propaganda at face value


chrisjay
Comment posted March 25, 2010 @ 6:19 am

Jesus repeatedly warns in the Bible against your type of over-weening pride—he points out that it precedes a fall. You are so proud that you have dodged the medical bullet that so many have not been so fortunate to dodge. Obviously your good luck has helped cultivate in you a lack of compassion for others.
Beware of lightning bolts


mom
Comment posted March 26, 2010 @ 4:18 pm

I think you do protest to much, that is an old saying that goes hand in had with arguements, if you call names you have already lost the arguement, I have not dodged the medical bullets, I just wish to take care of my own , If you haven't I am sorry for you and yours…I believe all who want this should get it…not because they are intitled but because of need. just because you are american does not entitle anyone to gov help.this health care is like the one they have in Canada it doesn't work and canada even told president obama it is not working they are broke there and people are not getting the health care they need there, why would it be different here. I have friends who live in canada and they wait upto 6 months for appointments..and if it is life threatening it takes upto 3 weeks, a friend of mine has a blood diesease and needs transfusions he lives in canada and they wont' give it to him until he is a deaths door..the plan they want here is the same, so don't be surprized when you have to wait to get medical help when this starts, also I don't want to pay for something I can't use for 4 years, if I pay for car insurance it is effective the day of payment. if we made all people even those who don't drive buy car insurance then that would be cheaper too. but it would not be fair…I personally don't want this if you do then you should have it…God bless you and your family


mom
Comment posted March 26, 2010 @ 4:18 pm

where is that in the bible?


mom
Comment posted March 26, 2010 @ 4:27 pm

you assume I am republican because I disagree with this, I don't listen to retoric from any one I make my own decisions, I have from day one of the first talks of this that I don't want to deal with insurance companies for my health care.I believe those who want this should have a choice to have it, but those of us who don't should not have to have it..they can't drop me because I don't believe in having it I pay all my medical bills my self that is the way I was raised, my parents and grandparents also , having health insurance is not something someone should be able to force on you…I know the arguement of auto insurance, but those who don't own or drive don't have to buy it. so why should someone who doe not want to buy health insurance have to have it…I my self go to the doctor 1 time a year but it has not always been this way. My husband has cancer and is disabled we pay our doctors bills ourselves, I don't want the goverment telling me what they will pay for me, I don't want it, if you do then you should have the choice, but I want the choice too….


mom
Comment posted March 26, 2010 @ 9:55 pm

maybe you should find out facts for yourself instead of watching you local news,


mom
Comment posted March 26, 2010 @ 9:57 pm

I live in a state where all our govenor knows is more taxes, health care is not something that is bearly avalible in this state, yet I do not want this, but with the way it is going I have to have it…is that fair


mom
Comment posted March 26, 2010 @ 9:59 pm

they were told by obama to shut up and live with it…he is president …..or more dictator


mom
Comment posted March 26, 2010 @ 10:00 pm

are you able to understand the english language, even the dems are saying this is going to bankrupt the country…distribution of wealth, I don't want anyone paying for me…I guess you do


mom
Comment posted March 26, 2010 @ 10:02 pm

that is so grown up….calling names solves nothing. stupid is as stupid does


mom
Comment posted March 27, 2010 @ 5:43 pm

no it was something we knew would happen , I drive a car but I feel if they are going to force insurance for health on everyone then everyone even those who don’t drive should pay thier fair share,my husband by the way because of his disability is on medicare, they are govermnent run correct? they are the ones that refused to pay think about it..
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus
To: mckriter6@msn.com
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:26 AM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

blueandredmakepurple (unregistered) wrote, in response to mom:

You dont make any sense, supposedly you have had loved one deal with Cancer, and it didnt enrage you having to pay out of pocket after paying all that money for years to an insurance company?

Also if its mandatory in all states that in order to drive you have to have car insurance, (I dont see you bitching about that, unless you walk everywhere) why would it be any different for something even more important as health insurance?

I agree with living within our means, but if we pay taxes why cant we all benefit from health coverage? We all benefit from our local police and fire departments, sewage and water system, our military, the school system that is all government run so in a way we are socialist.

Not “dealing” with health insurance is irresponsible and shortsighted on your part, you are the kind of person the republicans complain about, b/c if you were to roll in an emergency room with no health insurace guess who is going to pick up the bill?, medicaid/medicare what the hospital charges you is just a fraction of the real bill.

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-health-care-reform-suits-face-steep-hurdles#comment-41903197

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blueandredmakepurple
Comment posted March 27, 2010 @ 4:47 pm

No sweetie, you are paying for yourself, that's why you pay taxes. As far as this country being bankrupt, maybe we should not be engaged in a 10 year war with two countries, and actually do something to benefit our people, all of our people, poor and middle class alike, how about that?


blueandredmakepurple
Comment posted March 27, 2010 @ 4:58 pm

Now, you look really ignorant, if you're going to quote history quote it right, the fall of Rome, came after the fall of Greece, that's what lead to the medieval era. Secondly, are you dumb enough to believe republicans are after the intereste of “We the People'? Now why are their financial backers insurance companies? Think about it, this has nothing to do with communism/socialism at all. It has to do with money Obama is making insurance companies ACTUALLY cover their clients.


blueandredmakepurple
Comment posted March 27, 2010 @ 5:14 pm

This whole post did not make any sense, if you want to criticize social security and medicare/medicaid, really look at what has happened since the Reagan administration and you will notice that it was the Bushes who purported for cuts. I know because my loved ones are directly affected, we were part of the working poor, and you know what, they told my parents “You should've planned for retirement, you should've worked harder” basically it “sucks being poor”.

Secondly, that's not the way insurance really works, if you buy car insurance now and get in a car accident 3 hours later, they tell you you weren't covered b/c it actually starts on Monday, so quit lying to yourself.

Now, answer this: Do you actually like the idea of an insurance company dropping you b/c you were diagnosed with cancer? Have you ever been sick and had to deal with insurance co. not paying what they were supposed to? I have and it suck, mind you Im college educated and middle class and I certainly pay my taxes, what I dont understand is your opposition, it seems really ignorant and shortsighted to oppose something that has great potential benefits.


blueandredmakepurple
Comment posted March 27, 2010 @ 5:26 pm

You dont make any sense, supposedly you have had loved one deal with Cancer, and it didnt enrage you having to pay out of pocket after paying all that money for years to an insurance company?

Also if its mandatory in all states that in order to drive you have to have car insurance, (I dont see you bitching about that, unless you walk everywhere) why would it be any different for something even more important as health insurance?
I agree with living within our means, but if we pay taxes why cant we all benefit from health coverage? We all benefit from our local police and fire departments, sewage and water system, our military, the school system that is all government run so in a way we are socialist.

Not “dealing” with health insurance is irresponsible and shortsighted on your part, you are the kind of person the republicans complain about, b/c if you were to roll in an emergency room with no health insurace guess who is going to pick up the bill?, medicaid/medicare what the hospital charges you is just a fraction of the real bill.


mom
Comment posted March 27, 2010 @ 5:30 pm

I am not ruch either, my husband is disabled and has skin cancer, yes he is on medicare, he had surgery for this , and yes the insurance refused to pay so we had to pay this, and yet you see I don't begrudge anyone else having this if they want it. we don't want it yet still have to have it.is that right…..I am glad you are middle class and college educated, we are not and yet we don't have choice, we are the ones you talk about being the poor working class, our jobs have always been minimum wage….starting in 1967 at 1.65 an hour…the last job I had paid 8 an hour because I had experience, of 23 years. my husbands last job before he got hurt paid 13 an hr . so I know the working class, we never considered ourselves poor, low income yes but we learned to live with in our means. and our only retirement is ssi…and they get no raises for the next 2 maybe 3 years so our goverment can keep spending ssi for their projects….yes I was alive during the reagan admin. also when kennedy was in…and I have seen the corruption for years but yet none of them ever forced me to pay for something I did not want for personal use…I don't know what insurance you use for your vehicle but when I pay for mine it is in effect immediatly…or I would not buy it…I have cards with effective date in hand before I leave the office…or at least a letter stating I am covered…so maybe you should change insurance companies. as for being ignorant thank you since I think for my self I don't let the goverment or anyone think for me, if you like them running your life and thinking for you that is your right, but I want my rights too.
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: mckriter6@msn.com<mailto:mckriter6@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:14 AM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

blueandredmakepurple (unregistered) wrote, in response to mom:

This whole post did not make any sense, if you want to criticize social security and medicare/medicaid, really look at what has happened since the Reagan administration and you will notice that it was the Bushes who purported for cuts. I know because my loved ones are directly affected, we were part of the working poor, and you know what, they told my parents “You should've planned for retirement, you should've worked harder” basically it “sucks being poor”.

Secondly, that's not the way insurance really works, if you buy car insurance now and get in a car accident 3 hours later, they tell you you weren't covered b/c it actually starts on Monday, so quit lying to yourself.

Now, answer this: Do you actually like the idea of an insurance company dropping you b/c you were diagnosed with cancer? Have you ever been sick and had to deal with insurance co. not paying what they were supposed to? I have and it suck, mind you Im college educated and middle class and I certainly pay my taxes, what I dont understand is your opposition, it seems really ignorant and shortsighted to oppose something that has great potential benefits.

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-hea…>

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cottonman
Comment posted March 27, 2010 @ 6:02 pm

It is interesting to me that 14 states are filing lawsuits cause it parallels what the colonial states did, i.e. petition King George III.

America’s ancestors fled Europe & it’s tyranny & then fought tyranny in the American Revolution.

They would be proud of us cause we demonstrated in the streets (9/12 March in D.C.), wrote our representatives, sent letters/e-mails & make telephone calls & wrote numerous comments on blogs, but where did it get any of us? Our government has become a tyranny.

I must mention that there is a new book just out that is a great read for 2010. What's next after the lawsuits (petitions)?
booksbyoliver.com


Myview
Comment posted March 28, 2010 @ 4:36 pm

They'll be taking 2 Part-time employees and counting them as 1 employee. Businesses with more than 50 employees will be required to either offer insurance or pay a penalty of $750. per employee if no insurance is offered. If any employee qualifies for government subsidies money to help him pay for his own insurance because the employer is not offering insurance then the employer's fine/penalty goes from $750. to $2000. per employee. Employer's as I read pay 60% employees pay the remainder. If an individual does not buy an insurance policy they will get a fine which the IRS is hiring 17,000 new IRS agents to enforce the new Health Care law. Individual fine will be I read $95. first year of 1% of the total income then in 2015 it goes $325. or 2% or $695. or 2.5% of the total income. I found the website for the hiring of the IRS agents if you need a job it is http:federaljobs.net/irsagent.htm It reads “The average annual salary exceeds $42,000 a year for IRS agents”.


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Pingback posted March 29, 2010 @ 2:04 pm

[...] Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles [...]


Jefferson
Comment posted April 5, 2010 @ 12:35 am

Mom, why don't you save your breath and see what happens?

Jesus, we just survived 8 years of tyranny and stupidity, and you cry about not having a choice.

Healthcare CANNOT get worse than what it is now. With or without insurance—IT SUCKS.

I don't even care what Obama does. NOTHING he does can be worse than the corporate whore that just left office. It will take ten years just to get our civil rights back. And, our Supreme Court is a joke–thanks to the Bushes


mom
Comment posted April 5, 2010 @ 3:03 pm

nice mouth, does your mama know you talk like that
—– Original Message —–
From: Disqus
To: mckriter6@msn.com
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 5:35 PM
Subject: [washingtonindependent] Re: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles

Jefferson (unregistered) wrote, in response to mom:

Mom, why don’t you save your breath and see what happens?

Jesus, we just survived 8 years of tyranny and stupidity, and you cry about not having a choice.

Healthcare CANNOT get worse than what it is now. With or without insurance—IT SUCKS.

I don’t even care what Obama does. NOTHING he does can be worse than the corporate whore that just left office. It will take ten years just to get our civil rights back. And, our Supreme Court is a joke–thanks to the Bushes

Link to comment: http://washingtonindependent.com/80050/anti-health-care-reform-suits-face-steep-hurdles#comment-43233069

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Justin
Comment posted April 15, 2010 @ 10:27 pm

Test comment.


Myview
Comment posted April 15, 2010 @ 10:57 pm

Now more than ever the IRS is going to play a bigger role in our lives as President Obama put them in charge of the new Health Care Bill.

As a business owner I see things differently from many, I am concerned of the impact the Health Care Bill will have on the financials of our businesses, on employees due to the new taxes, tax law changes, provisions, regulations and will employers be able to keep all their employees on payroll, will employers cut hours, cut jobs. And will employees have the money to buy an insurance policy if they don’t get insurance from their employer as health insurance is not free or have the money to pay the tax(fine) to the IRS if employee chooses not buy a policy? Will employers have the money to offer insurance to their employees, again is not free, or have the money to pay the tax(fine) to the IRS if they can’t offer insurance to employees?

These are to me serious concerns, realities, worries that I'll be discussing with a tax accountant in the weeks to come. We businesses have no choice but to learn, prepare and comply with the IRS.

According to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Reconciliation Act of 2010 now employers have to report the cost of the employee's health insurance policy on the employee's W-2 Form to the IRS which makes me wonder as a business owner if the employee will be required to pay a tax on the policy as the IRS might consider it an Asset to the employee and will the IRS consider it an increase to the employee's Gross Wages thus employee ends up in a higher tax bracket?

Individuals will also be required to report their insurance policy cost to the IRS on their Income Tax Return on a form similar to the 1099s once again I question why report the cost and not just turn in a certificate from the insurance company confirming one has a health insurance policy? Why does the IRS need to know the cost?

Read at Senate http://dpc.senate.gov/healthreformbill/healthbi…
Read section subtitle F-Shared responsibility for Health Care Sec. 5000A Subsection sec.1502. and sec. 6055 IRS and Sec 1513 and Sec 9002. Go also to http://dpc.senate.gov/healthreformbill/healthbi…

At Library of Congress http://thomas.loc.gov/
H.R.3590 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act Subtitle F-Shared Responsibility for Health Care Sec. 1501. Sec. 1502 deals with penalty and IRS is required to send out notices to those without health insurance coverage to inform of the Exchange pools and Title IX: Revenue Provisions – Subtitle A Sec.9002 and H.R.3200. The rates for the Tax (fine/penalty) for those that choose not to buy an insurance policy are listed in the Health Care Bill (employers, employees, individuals, families).


williamgershuny
Comment posted April 24, 2010 @ 2:43 pm

As a former Justice Dept. Civil Div. attorney, I believe constitutionality of Act is in doubt. It contains no severability clause, so that if the mandatory insurance prov. falls, the entire Act falls. If States really believe in regaining their reserved powers under 10th Amend, they (2/3 of them) should call for a const. amend and give the commerce and other clauses their originally intended meaning. At same time, they should regain power to appoint Senators and reduce the House from a “mob” to a smaller “citizen” legislature. All should have 1 six yr term, with no special benefits.


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