NY-23: Club for Growth Poll Has Hoffman Leading

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The Republican Party had better wake-up and lose the old Rhino's if they want a future. Read the Tea Party leafs and start nominating fiscally responsible candidates that will seek small government and a balanced budget. If they continue to promote Rhino's there will be a Third Party in the Country. The uphill battle has been the control of voter laws in States put in place by both the Democrats and Republicans to prevent a Third Party. If enough people vote for Independents it can happen, or the Republicans can stop putting up Democrats as candidates.

[...] numbers are from this poll, commissioned by the fiscally conservative Club for Growth. Filed under: Government Spending Leave [...]

Small government and a balanced budget, eh? Ok, I'll bite. Please answer the following questions.

1. Which government programs or entities will you cut? Moreover, what do you feel will be the effect of said cuts? How much money would that actually save?

2. Currently, defense spending is estimated to be larger than the rest of the world's defense spending COMBINED. Can you envision a circumstance in which defense spending would ever be decreased?

3. Will you support a measure that would prohibit the US government from financing elective wars through loans from foreign countries? Remember, our two current wars are the first wars in modern American history that haven't been funded by tax increases or austerity measures such as resource rationing.

4. How much federal money would be saved or revenue raised by a partial or full decriminalization of pot?

5. How exactly did Bill Clinton generate a surplus without increasing defense spending or slashing tax rates for the wealthy?

1. Farm subsidies, bailouts and other forms corporate welfare — especially those that actual cost jobs.

2. Yes. We should ask Europe to pay for more of its defense.

3. Depends who defines “elective wars”. A radical Leftists would define this differently than a moderate or conservative. Our involvement in the Bosnian conflict could be interpreted as an elective war — along with Somalia, Lebanon, etc.

4. I'm with you there…because I believe in the individual's right to choose so long as their choice doesn't effect others. It would be a good thing for economically depressed areas of this country.

5. Bill Clinton believed in free markets and capitalism. This was reflected in his focus on technology, free trade (NAFTA) and “re-inventing government”. He didn't have to spend as much on defense because we had just won the Cold War and hadn't launched a war on terrorists (although they were at war with us, according to the 911 Commission). Clinton also worked with Republicans to get welfare and other entitlement reform. The rich did, in fact, receive tax breaks from Clinton and the Republican Congress which help grow the economy.

Obama IS NOT Bill Clinton. Obama doesn't just lack understanding of free markets and business — he has spent his entire career demonizing our economic system. He has contempt for the economic system that has created the most powerful economy in the history of the world. Clinton was a centrist who understood that the success of his Presidency depended upon the success of companies in the free market. Obama is a Marxist who has never created a single job, doesn't undertstand those who do create jobs, and has no experience that can be applied to growing a business — much less our nation's economy. Look at inner city Chicago to get an idea of where Obama's policies inevitably lead.

If you cut all federal spending other than defense, interest on the debt, and medicare, you would still run a deficit.

Farm subsidies are less than $100 billion in a nearly $3 trillion budget.

Most of the teabaggers fail at math when asked what they would actually cut.

Nonsense. My poll of ten thousand likely voters, commissioned by the Club for Me, has me winning in a landslide.

1. So, instead of bailouts, you would have allowed most of the financial services industry as well as one of our few remaining domestic manufacturing industries simply vanish? By the way, just how much money do you think actually gets spent on farm subsidies?

2. No Republican would ever or will ever authorize cutting defense. Hell, they're still fixated on a thirty year old idea to shoot down missiles with space lasers, an idea that has NEVER worked.

3. Iraq definitely counted as an “elective war”. Nice way to deflect the point that our two current wars are being paid for with a credit card, and such a funding method has NEVER been utilized in modern American history.

4. Right to choose, eh? Think of all the people who aren't allowed to “choose” marriage because Republicans don't approve of their sex lives.

5. Clinton actually RAISED income taxes. In fact, at the time he RAISED income taxes, the same yayhoos calling Obama an America-hating commie who doesn't understand this that and the other thing were calling Clinton the exact same things. I'm dying to know how you can say Obama “spent his entire career demonizing our economic system”. Here's a hint, sport. Pointing out that free-for-all Wild West economics ends up hurting many people is not “demonizing the economy” it's “pointing out empirical truth”. Additionally, a cursory examination that shows that real wages have DROPPED in the last thirty years isn't “Marxist”, it's a “fact”.

Either way, Clinton raised taxes, cut defense and balanced the budget. Republicans who raised defense spending and cut taxes doubled and even tripled the deficit.

Oh, let's be real Fred, the teabaggers have very specific ideas about what THEY would cut. They have to keep quiet about the extent of their ideas lest some of their illiterate followers clue in.

Let's take Medicare for instance. They do realize that if not for the safety net of Medicare, senior mortality and poverty rates would skyrocket if seniors' fates were exclusively left up to the almighty “market”. None of these clowns have ever cracked open books about what poverty in this country used to look like pre-New Deal.

[...] Poll shows Hoffman with lead in NY-23 special election. Club For Growth did the poll–who knew they could even do that? It should be noted that CFG has spent over $600,000 into the special election in support of Doug Hof… [...]

“1. So, instead of bailouts, you would have allowed most of the financial services industry as well as one of our few remaining domestic manufacturing industries simply vanish? By the way, just how much money do you think actually gets spent on farm subsidies?”

Companies that make poor decisions regarding their customers, shareholders and markets should fail. Yes, that's how free markets work (both Bush and Obama seemed ignorant of this). Right now, the reward we get for helping the banks is tightened credit, increased fee and rates. Those banks that paid by the rules and made better decisions should have been rewarded. Instead, the bailout has amounted to corporate welfare and has been executed in a manner that's made the economy worse.

Farms subsidies account for billions of dollars and are destructive to jobs. The subsidies to the sugar industry, for example, increase prices for consumers and cost jobs in other industries (food and beverage, retail,etc).

“2. No Republican would ever or will ever authorize cutting defense. Hell, they're still fixated on a thirty year old idea to shoot down missiles with space lasers, an idea that has NEVER worked.”

I'm not a Republican or a Democrat (party affiliation requires abandoning intellectual integrity). I feel Europe should pay for its own defense — as well as Japan and South Korea. Our military helps subsidize the socialist programs of our allies.

“3. Iraq definitely counted as an “elective war”. Nice way to deflect the point that our two current wars are being paid for with a credit card, and such a funding method has NEVER been utilized in modern American history.”

No deflection.

“4. Right to choose, eh? Think of all the people who aren't allowed to “choose” marriage because Republicans don't approve of their sex lives.”

I believe in individual liberty…so I think people should be allowed to marry (or not marry) anyone they choose. My belief in individual liberty is also why I'm against Marxism/Socialism — which seeks to negate the individual via the artificial construct of collective abstraction.

“5. Clinton actually RAISED income taxes. In fact, at the time he RAISED income taxes, the same yayhoos calling Obama an America-hating commie who doesn't understand this that and the other thing were calling Clinton the exact same things.”

Yes, but he offered tax breaks and incentives to spur investment. Also, he reformed welfare and promoted free trade agreements — things opposed by Obama and the far Left.

“I'm dying to know how you can say Obama “spent his entire career demonizing our economic system”. Here's a hint, sport. Pointing out that free-for-all Wild West economics ends up hurting many people is not “demonizing the economy” it's “pointing out empirical truth”.”

Obama's career was spent regurgitating the same Leftist rhetoric one would from any politician in, let's say, Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans or DC. Obama didn't break new ground demonizing entreprenuers, businesses and free markets. Just because he doesn't understand markets and prefers a system directed by the state — doesn't make him a prophet or even particularly insightful. Honestly, Obama's only expereice with business involved helping to chase the few remaining ones from inner city Chicago.

” Additionally, a cursory examination that shows that real wages have DROPPED in the last thirty years isn't “Marxist”, it's a “fact”. “

As a graduate level professor of business, I can offer some reason's for this. 1.) Unions have driven companies overseas, 2) Urban areas that have adopted Marxist policies (high taxes, pressure for union backed community groups, etc) advocated by Obama and have driven comapnies out of the cities to lower wage areas of the country, 3.) Illegal immigration has kept wages down for unskilled and low skill workers, 4.) Educational system has failed to prepare workers for the new economy. Skilled workers have seen their incomes rise — while those who have not adapted have not. The factors I've outlined above (which most Marxist economist fail to mention) are a direct result of the policies and tactics of the Left. Democrats have cheered each and everyone of the factors contributing to lower wages.

“Either way, Clinton raised taxes, cut defense and balanced the budget. Republicans who raised defense spending and cut taxes doubled and even tripled the deficit.”

Why was Clinton able to cut defense? Oh yeah, because we won the Cold War and Clinton decided not to prosecute a war on terror (even though we were attacked several times). The budget was balanced with a Congress controlled by Republicans — who admittedly lost their way under Bush.

Most Tea Party people I know in FL in a wide range of social contacts are not for Crisp, a certifiable RINO. Many of them are Blue Dog Dems or Independents like myself, and relatively few voted for RINO McCain without holding their nose.

The choice between Dems and Repubs is usually between Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber, with the T-dumber depending on location and context. Sen. Nelson, for instance, has a single-digit IQ despite being a former astronaut—-braindeath occurred perhaps prematurely in his case. I voted against Jeb Bush for Gov & for the Dem in '02, e.g., so every case has its unique circumstances.

[...] numbers are from this poll, commissioned by the fiscally conservative Club for [...]

[...] numbers are from this poll, commissioned by the fiscally conservative Club for [...]

[...] numbers are from this poll, commissioned by the fiscally conservative Club for [...]

Oh, goody. You're a “all unions are bad” clown. Of course, in the 50's and 60's union membership was at an all time high, and America was the unquestioned economic power of the world. There was a vibrant middle class, and average real wages INCREASED every year. Plus with a tax system that held people accountable, you had balanced budgets.

Then, Reagan happened, and all of a sudden workers were no longer considered viable economic actors, and you saw the Executive become the sole focus of economic policy. Outsourcing not only was encouraged, it was incentivized by GOP legislation.

The conscious choice of GOP policymakers to destroy American manufacturing through union-busting is the real culprit behind the drop in real wages, not the brown boogeymen you clowns like to solemnly invoke.

It's interesting that you use the words “prosecute” and “war on terror” in the same sentence. When the WTC was bombed in 1993, Clinton's Justice Department managed to “prosecute” the terrorists in a court of law, securing convictions. In the eight years since 9/11, the only person the Bush team managed to “prosecute” for their involvement in that crime was the poor sap who drove Bin Laden's limo.

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