Republican ‘Birthers’ Outnumber Democratic ‘Truthers’

By
Wednesday, September 23, 2009 at 2:24 pm

Public Policy Polling’s ongoing survey of American attitudes about presidential conspiracy theories continues with a fascinating look at the “birther” and “truther” sympathies of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. One takeaway: While some conservatives have brushed aside criticism of the “birthers” in their based by criticizing 9/11 conspiracy theorists on the left, there are far more conservative “birthers” than liberal “truthers.”

Forty-two percent of Republicans say President Obama was born outside the United States, while only 37 percent say he was born here. Twenty-five percent of Democrats say President George W. Bush let 9/11 happen, while 63 percent say he didn’t. Sixty-two percent of “liberals” say no, as do 62 percent of people who say they voted for Obama. The only element of the Democratic Party’s base with considerable 9/11 “truth” sympathies? African-Americans, only 46 percent of whom rule out a Bush connection.

Brendan Nyhan, writing about the poll at Pollster.com, takes credit for a strict 9/11 question framed to make sure no one who merely believed that Bush didn’t take the August 2001 “bin Laden determined to strike inside United States” argument seriously. The new question: “Do you think President Bush intentionally allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place because he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?”

Here’s a chart displaying the results:

trutherpoll

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Comments

166 Comments

Republican ‘Birthers’ Outnumber Democratic ‘Truthers’ « The Fifth Column
Pingback posted September 23, 2009 @ 4:13 pm

[...] Weigel of the Washigton Independant writes: Public Policy Polling’s ongoing survey of American attitudes about presidential conspiracy [...]


Blue State, Red State: Both Nuts « Fascinated Curiously
Pingback posted September 23, 2009 @ 5:39 pm

[...] to take place because he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East” (that is much more specific wording than previous polls so there is less “it’s fair to say Bush knew” wiggle room) [...]


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 6:44 pm

This is hilarious, like Pravda's stats on grain production. I know this site's parent company gets money from Soros, do any of those linked in this post also get a taste?

According to Nyhan, even being unsure about where BHO was born is a “myth”. Meanwhile, back in the land of sane people, the strongest evidence that he was born where he says is one (1) statement from a HI official who gave no details and who stalked off in a huff. The birth announcements aren't proof, as described at that link. The unauthenticated picture on BHO's site isn't proof. Yet, despite none of those actually being solid proof, the “Faithers” – BHO cultists – believe in their heart of hearts that BHO was born where he says he was.


thefold-Chris
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 7:16 pm

Just for the record, people who believe 9/11 was a government plot, or that Bush had something to do with it, are crazy in their own right. But truthers and Tea Baggers really have nothing in common. It's apples and oranges.

For instance, how many truthers are Democratic Members of Congress??? Can't say the same about birthers/Tea Baggers and right wing nut jobs. Big difference that should be pointed out.


Antibirther
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 7:22 pm

There's a birther born every minute, and two to Taitz 'em.


Antibirther
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 8:43 pm

As I have pointed out in the past, if we take a classic Poison distribution of human inteligence, (i.e. the bell curve) about 10% of the worlds population is just plain stupid.


Jim
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 8:43 pm

Really? How many Republican members of congress went back to their home states and agreed with the blowers? Far more than democrats with the truthers. In fact, democrats stood up to the truthers, but all we get from republicans is bills to require a non-existent BC.


Jim
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 8:45 pm

NOTE TO ALL: It's fine to argue with the blowers, I can promise you it's funny. Just do NOT click on any of their sites. They are trying to pawn off old worn-out forgeries and fake unprovable theories. The only thing is they are being paid by the visit, so the best way to shut them up is to not give them that money they need so desperately to keep their delusions going. That is why they keep bringing up the same tired arguments and hope they can get the next reader to click on their so-called “proof”. If they had any real proof, it wouldn't be on this board, it would be front and center on Fox News. I guess WND has a warehouse full of Anti-Obama junk to get rid of and hired these folks to get more traffic. If you like that sort of thing, I recommend going to WND and buying direct…it is still a free country, despite what these blowers say.


mantis
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 9:34 pm

Jim, I think you and Chris are on the same page here. When he asks “how many truthers are Democratic Members of Congress?” the implicit answer here seems to be none. FYI


mantis
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 9:39 pm

According to Nyhan, even being unsure about where BHO was born is a “myth”.

Do you know how to read? Oh, I forgot, you're down to 23 brain cells. Nyhan says no such thing.

Meanwhile, back in the land of sane people,

Oh, are you visiting us here? Welcome!

the strongest evidence that he was born where he says is one (1) statement from a HI official who gave no details and who stalked off in a huff.

Actually, all available credible evidence points to Obama's being born exactly when he says he was. But I don't expect a deranged maniac like yourself to understand the difference between credible and imaginary.


mantis
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 9:40 pm

Excuse me, that should read “when and where he says he was.”


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 10:57 pm

Since this appears to be a slow news day at this Soros-funded pseudopaper, you might enjoy this example of Dave Weigel just making things up. If anyone disagrees, fact-check his claims and then present direct evidence backing them up. (Hint: you won't be able to do it).

Instead of doing that, BHO cultists (“Faithers”) will simply respond with more false statements and ad homs; that's all the material they have.


Jim
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 11:35 pm

oh, 24, we've got a valid BC from Hawaii verified by the governor…it's only you who has nothing. The only false statements have been by the blowers. I really wish they'd get some new material, it's a shame that they're willing to believe forged documents on the web (because the originals do not exist) over the word of an elected official. Really shows how bad the blowers hate it.


Definitive "Our Crazies Are Less Crazy Than Your Crazies" Proof | ExclusiveRumors.com
Pingback posted September 24, 2009 @ 12:46 am

[...] to take place because he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East” (that is much more specific wording than previous polls so there is less “it’s fair to say Bush knew” wiggle room) [...]


SouthernYankee
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 12:17 am

Birthers and Truthers, Please turn the page. Enough already. The one thing you all managed to do is show how nutty both sides are.


tootiredoftheright
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 2:00 am

The birth announcements in Hawaii and several other states came from the Department of Health which gets their info from the hospitals.

You cannot call in a birth announcement in the state of Hawaii. The two Hawaiian newspapers confirmed this when asked how birth announcement info was gotten.

It has been authenticated by the Hawaiian state officals such as the Republican gov who supported McCain.


littybell
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 1:21 pm

The real issue with birthers is not that their charge is laughable on its face but the fact that simply saying this enough times appears to somehow make it a legitimate argument in thier own conservative circles and eventually errodes the support of some of the weaker undeclared voters who have fallen in severe economic times. Let's fact conspiracies work because it is a conspiracy. No one has to prove anything.


frankburns
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 1:57 pm

25% of any population is just plain stupid. In other words, Democrats are slightly more intelligent than the average, independents are slightly more dimwitted, while Republicans take the cake on obtusiveness.


Midday open thread | Second Reagan Revolution
Pingback posted September 24, 2009 @ 4:04 pm

[...] the battle of fringe conspiracy theories, there are lots more birthers than there are [...]


Midday open thread | Bloggers For Change
Pingback posted September 24, 2009 @ 4:05 pm

[...] the battle of fringe conspiracy theories, there are lots more birthers than there are [...]


Antibirther
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 3:44 pm

Well, there is Dennis J. Kucinich of chemtrail fame.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 4:47 pm

Obama fans – especially sockpuppets – have a habit of lying, as you can see from Jim's comment. In fact, Lingle never confirmed that he was born there, and the picture on Obama's site has never been authenticated.


mantis
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 4:58 pm

Ok, maybe the implicit answer is “far fewer than Republicans in Congress.”


vicetan
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 5:01 pm

The following excerpt from the US Constitution is relevant to the issue of Obama's birth. Article IV section 1, states “Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.” Three Hawaiian officials including the Republican governor affirmed Obama's birth in Honolulu as factual and so according to the Constitution, the highest law of this country, no other state can question or deny this record but must give “full faith and credit” and accept this record. Also unfortunately for the birthers, Congress did “prescribe” the short form as a standardization of birth records in the aftermath of 911 as a way to prevent fraudulent birth certificates. So if there is fraud, it is up to the people accusing Hawaii of issuing a fraudulent birth certificate to have the evidence to back up their accusations.


Jim
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 5:16 pm

BRRRP…wrong again genius. It was authenticated by the only entity that could…the State of Hawaii. And, twisting peoples words to fit your needs won't work now, as it didn't work before. No clicks, no money, no luck. 24, you going to get any new material? The old stuff has been proven wrong so much, it's now a laughing stock on the web.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 6:38 pm

If what you say is true (and it isn't), you should be able to provide a direct quote from any gov't official authenticating the picture on BHO's site. You won't find that; see the second link in my last comment.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 6:40 pm

1. What HI's governor has said is discussed here; she never verified where he was born. If she had, I wouldn't have received a form letter from her in which she points out that it would be illegal for her to verify where he was born.

2. Only one (1) HI official has said he was born there, and in her statement she gave no further details and then stalked off in a huff.


Jim
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 7:01 pm

Actually, they verified that all information on the BC Obama has showed is true and accurate with what is on file. The official who walked off in a huff was tired of blowers twisting her words for their needs. They have released 2 official statements saying what Obama reports is true and accurate. And no, we no longer click on your websites, people are reporting viruses and besides, if you had anything worthwhile it wouldn't be on this board it would be on FOX Snooze. When are you going to get new material there 24? The old stuff really bites the big one!


Jim
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 7:03 pm

And what would they have said if he wasn't born there? They verified the accuracy of the information Obama provided on his website. And no, I won't click on your website, I know you're working for WND and I don't need to give you any more income for wild theories and obvious forgeries.


mantis
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 7:22 pm

Only one (1) HI official has said he was born there

One official with the Hawaii Department of Health, who personally checked the records, yes.

and in her statement she gave no further details

What further details are needed? He was born in Honolulu, crazy ass birther.

and then stalked off in a huff.

Maybe because she has a job to do and is sick of dealing with bullshit from crazy ass birthers?


mantis
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 7:22 pm

Only one (1) HI official has said he was born there

One official with the Hawaii Department of Health, who personally checked the records, yes.

and in her statement she gave no further details

What further details are needed? He was born in Honolulu, crazy ass birther.

and then stalked off in a huff.

Maybe because she has a job to do and is sick of dealing with bullshit from crazy ass birthers?


xcott
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 7:39 pm

Well, that makes sense. The birther conspiracy is simply a silly claim with zero evidence; the truther claim violates the laws of physics and requires a vast conspiracy among the media, government, military and scientific community.

Truthers have been trying to assemble a list of “architects and engineers” supporting their claims. They have a laughable thousand or so, which in percentage terms is embarrassing. To put this in perspective, global warming deniers have a petition of 30,000 people, which they have individually vetted. Truthers are a few rungs down even from creationists.

But that being said, they're all denial movements.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 7:50 pm

1. Be very careful about making false claims; I will take legal action if warranted. No one is reporting problems with my site.

2. As Jim shows, ObamaBots will do anything to prevent people from learning the simple facts of this matter. As pointed out in a comment below, HI hasn't authenticated the picture on Obama's site. All that happened is one official in one statement said he was born there.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 7:52 pm

Once again, “Jim” is lying. I'm not working for WND, and HI has never verified that the picture on his site matches whatever they have on file.


mantis
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:06 pm

Yes they have.


mantis
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:30 pm

I've got a problem with your site. It sucks.

There. It's been reported.


KayC
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:31 pm

IT WAS PROVEN>>>> so get over it!! Obama was born in the STATE OF HAWAII. It showed even a newspaper clipping from the examiners office. My God….what else does it take to prove these dummies that facts are facts. SSHHHHEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ


OldSparky
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:43 pm

When sme of you were floating the idea of Arnold Schwartzenegger running for President, you were all over the place saying that the natural-born citizen clause was silly and should be done away with.


kellercello
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:44 pm

If you define “truther's” by the belief that Bush knew about 9/11 before it happened, you haven't looked at the leading “truth” site, AE911truth.org. It clearly states the goal to be a new independent investigation into the causes of the collapses and the Pentagon attack. Nowhere does it say “Bush knew in advance” of anything. Some “truther's” speculate about Cheney or others having advance knowledge, or being complicit in 9/11, and they can be called “conspiracy theorists”, but being a “truther” does not mean you sign on to any “conspiracy theory” – only that you want a new investigation to be able to honestly look at the evidence to find “the truth” about 9/11. What is wacko about that, or in any way to be compared to “Birthers'” who have blatantly ignored the evidence, when “Truther's” are insisting on a new look at existing evidence (including the peer reviewed study showing Thermate residue in the WTC dust!) in an objective, honest approach?


chrisjay
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:47 pm

Hey Birfer, make up your mind whether you want to use commie or nazi analogies for Obama–you do understand that the two are ideologically anathematic, right? You cannot use them interchangeably unless, of course, you are simply demonstrating how irrational you are. If that is indeed the case, save your energy—-we already know how batshit crazy y'all are.


kellercello
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:52 pm

When Richard Gage (AE911truth.org) gives a lecture to professional architects and engineers, he gets over 90% who agree with him once he is done, ALL THE TIME. You really should not talk about this without checking it out yourself, and trying to do some independent thinking about it at the same time. There are mulitple scientific reasons to doubt the official story, from sane professionals who don't line up for any other “conspiracy theories” of which there are many!


mantis
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:58 pm

When Richard Gage (AE911truth.org) gives a lecture to professional architects and engineers, he gets over 90% who agree with him once he is done, ALL THE TIME.

Correction: When Richard Gage gives a lecture to already mentally unbalanced people, he gets over 90% to agree with him (most of whom already did).

I work with architects and engineers. They think you truthers are insane.


xcott
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 9:15 pm

Says who, him?

Well if he can get 90% of people agreeing with him, I guess it's only a matter of time before I hear the National Academy of Sciences taking his side, right?

Just let me know when that happens.


xcott
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 9:20 pm

Ha, if that's the “leading” truth site, then obviously birthers outnumber truthers.

They don't even have a piddly 10,000 engineers on their side. In fact, if you look closely, it looks like they have like one physicist, just like the creationists have one microbiologist, Michael Behe.

Perhaps we should check back in 5 years.


kevin000
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 10:24 pm

there are far more conservative “birthers” than liberal “truthers.”

That depends, of course, on the relative number of Democrats and Republicans. What percentage of people identified themselves as Democrats, and what percentage identified themselves as Republicans?


thesheriffsani
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 10:37 pm

And Dennis couldn't run away from the Truthers fast enough once he realized there was no there there.


wudan
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 11:09 pm

The difference is Obama has never produced one shred of proof he was born in America, but there's a mountain of proof showing he was born in Kenya. Luckily, Republicans are pushing this because they know this is a REPUBLIC of LAWS unlike the lib dems who are covering up for BO


crisericson
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 11:21 pm

CRIS ERICSON SAYS: BIRTHERS!
REQUEST NEW FEC RULE
REQUIRING ALL PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES
TO PROVIDE THEIR
ORIGINAL LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
http://www.fec.gov

TITLE 11 CFR (CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS) Section 105.3
Place of filing; Presidential candidates and their principal campaign
committees (2 U.S.C. 432(g)(4).
All designations, statements, reports, and notices, as well as any
modifications(s) or amendments(s) thereto, required to be filed
under 11 CFR parts 101, 102 and 104 by a candidate for nomination
for election or election to the office of President or Vice President
of the United States or by his or her principal campaign committee
shall be filed in ORIGINAL FORM with the FEDERAL ELECTION
COMMISSION.

11 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) Chapter 1, Subchapter A
Section 111.4
COMPLAINTS
[2 U.S.C. Section 437g(a)(1)]
(a) Any person who believes that a violation of any statute or
regulation over which the Commission has jurisdiction has occurred
or is about to occur may file a complaint in writing to the
General Counsel, Federal Election Commission, 999 E Street,
NW., Washington, DC 20463. If possible, three (3) copies
should be submitted.
(b) A complaint shall comply with the following:
(1) It shall provide the full name and address of the complainant ; and
(2) The contents of the complaint shall be sworn to and signed in the
presence of a notary public and shall be notarized.

The Federal Election Commission oversees all the money spent
in campaigns for federal office.
11 CFR Ch. 1 Part 101 Section 101.2 CANDIDATE AS AGENT
OF AUTHORIZED COMMITEE [2 U.S.C. Section 432(e)(2)]

QUESTION: BECAUSE THE CANDIDATE IS THE AUTHORIZED
AGENT OF THE COMMITTEE, THEN, THEREFORE,
SHOULD
THE DUTIES OF THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION
INCLUDE DETERMINING IF EACH CANDIDATE FOR
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS IN FACT A
NATURAL BORN CITIZEN by providing their original
long form birth certificate?

11 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) Ch. 1, Subchapter B
Part 200
PETITIONS FOR RULEMAKING

11 CFR Ch.1, SubCh. B, Section 200.2 PROCEDURAL
REQUIREMENTS
(a) ANY INTERESTED PERSON MAY FILE WITH THE COMMISSION
A WRITTEN PETITION FOR THE ISSUANCE, AMENDMENT, OR
REPEAL OF A RULE IMPLEMENTING ANY OF THE FOLLOWING
STATUTES:
(1) The Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, as amended, 2 U.S.C. 431 et seq.;
(2) The Presidential Election Campaign Fund Act, as amended, 26 U.S.C. 9001 et seq.;
(3) The Presidential Primary Matching Payment Account Act, as amended, 26 U.S.C. 9031
et seq.;
(4) The Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. 552; or
(5) Any other law that the Commission is required to implement and administer,

(b) THE PETITION SHALL
(1) Include the name and address of the Petitioner or Agent. An Authorized
Agent of the Petitioner may submit the Petition, but the Agent shall disclose
the identitify of this or her principal;
(2) Identify itself as a PETITION for the ISSUANCE, AMENDMENT, OR REPEAL of a rule;
(3) Identify the specific section(s) of the regulations to be affected;
(4) Set forth the factual and legal grounds on which the petitioner relies,
in support of the proposed action; and
(5) Be addressed and submitted to the
FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION, OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL,
999 E STREET, NW., WASHINGTON, DC 20463.
(c) The petition may include draft regulatory language that would effectuate
the petitionser's proposal.
(d) The Commission may, in its discretion, treat a document that fails to
conform to the format requirements of paragraph (b) of this section as a basis for a
sua sponte rulemaking. For example, the Commission may consider whether to
intitiate a rulemaking project addressing issues raised in an advisory opinion request
submitted under 11 CFR 112.1 or in a complaint filed under 11 CFR 111.4. However, the
Commission need not follow the procedures of 11 CFR 200.3 in these instances.

Ms. Cris Ericson may be reached at http://crisericson.com
or http://vermontnews.livejournal.com
or http://crisericson2010.blogspot.com


mantis
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 11:26 pm

The difference is Obama has never produced one shred of proof he was born in America, but there's a mountain of proof showing he was born in Kenya.

You've got that reversed, crazy ass birther.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 12:42 am

OH MY GOD!!! She just eliminated half the country from being able to run for PRESIDENT!!! LOL I can't believe it! Ms. Ericson…do you realize that most states ONLY have the short form? You think they want to give up their rights just for nuts like YOU!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA WARNING. DON'T CLICK ON HER SITE! SHE'S NUTS!


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 12:47 am

There's a mountain of forgeries trying to pawn themselves off as proof…not much else. Republicans, including their last presidential candidates, said he was american, born in Hawaii. Sorry, if you're willing to believe the BS, then WND and the other blowers can take you for every last cent. You deserve to be broken.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 2:16 am

OK 24, Prove you don't work for WND. You must, since most of the crap you link to is from their site. Prove to these nice people you don't work for WND.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 2:20 am

I better be careful making false claims? Interesting concept. Maybe YOU should prove they are false. That is the world YOU live in, isn't it. Or do you decide who does and does not have to prove just to fit your needs? I'll let you decide…does the accused or the accuser have to prove their case?


Dude
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 2:55 am

you're right, it does suck.


joey F
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:31 am

You got smoked by a birther chick.

http://citizensagainstproobamamediabias.wordpre…


Russ
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:43 am

Soooo, if you're “not sure” about 9/11 events, or don't buy govt “conspiracy theory” then you are a nutty “truther”??
WTF?


Bryant
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 8:54 am

“Birthers”, Truthers”, Republicans”, Democrats”, Liberals”, and “In dependants”. How shameful The United States of America has become. I read these “comment” sections periodically, just to confirm, how divided this country has become. We're all Americans. To all of the idiots throwing out the “Race Card”, it was the Republican party that freed Black Americans. Not African-Americans or “Mexican Americans”. I don't care what color your skin is, your either an American or a Foreigner. The founders of this Great country, wrote up a very specific document to be followed. There was a reason for that. They escaped “Big Government” and founded America. The land of the free, to be ran by people from this country. Not from Africa. To those of you that say “well that was 233 years ago” I say “It's worked pretty good so far, why change things now”. God, you people really need to learn “Your” history. If Orly Taitz and the “Birthers” are so insane, why has Obama spent Millions, on hiding his information? When he could have gotten a Long Form Birth Certificate copy for $25. Ann Dunham was pregnant with “The Big O” and was not allowed to get on the plane, back to Hawaii until she gave birth in Kenya. It's not his fault, so he can blame his countrymen in Kenya. Since that's what Americans do today, blame someone else for their problems. “Your Depressed”, here take this pill. “Your Hyper” well take this pill. We escaped “Big Government” and we are slowly allowing more “Big Government” to take place. We're in a recession and people can't afford to do a lot of things, including buy Health Insurance. What do the intelligent minds in Washington come up with? If you don't buy any Health Insurance, then we're going to fine you. Oh, and by the way, their Health Insurance won't change at all. What happened to finding a different job or being more careful? Put down the damn phone when your driving or working or whatever. If people paid more attention to what they were doing, Health costs would go down. Quit relying on “somebody else” to do, what you should do for yourself. America has gotten Lazy. “A Government Big Enough, To Give You Everything You Want, Is Big Enough To Take Everything Away”


Deke Slater
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 11:52 am

Of course there are more Republican “birthers” than Democrat “truthers” because the “birther” issue is plausible and those that believe that GW Bush “allowed” the 9/11 attacks to take place so that he would be able to have a war in the Middle East are the desperate, borderline,
two-steps-from-the-asylum few.
I suspect that just before the next major election a birth certificate will turn up to get the fence straddlers. However, it'll be too late because the truth that the Obama Administration “allowed”
ACORN their illicit, illegal, stuffing of the ballot box and knowingly “allowed” tax payer dollars to go to them to boot, will save us from the “spiraling vortex to Hell” path that they have so smugly set the country on!


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:53 pm

Here are the legal facts, whether you like it or not, Obama CANNOT, BY ANY LEGALLY ESTABLISHED DEFINITION, meet the Constitutional requirement to hold the office of POTUS. There is NOT ONE SHRED OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE which proves Obama is a “natural born Citizen” of these United States – in fact, he has ADMITTED that his father’s British/Kenyan citizenship was inherited at birth – From “FactCheck.org –
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.” The law says BOTH PARENTS must be U.S.Citizens at the time a child is born to them in order for the child to be a “natural born Citizen”, therefore, no matter WHERE Obama was born, he CANNOT be a “natural born Citizen”, that is an undeniable legal fact! A common “Citizen” CANNOT legally become President, ONLY a “natural born Citizen” is Constitutionally eligible. Under established law, birthplace is secondary to parentage! Before you even begin, neither Doctor Fukino, nor Governor Linda Lingle have the legal power to declare any person a “natural born Citizen”. Common myths – Myth #1 – Chester Arthur’s British birth was known and accepted by the American people.- It has been argued that Chester Arthur’s occupation of the White House set a legal precedent for Obama since both Chester and Barack were born of British fathers. But the public – at the time Chester was running for VP and later when he became POTUS – never knew that Chester Arthur was a British subject since he successfully lied to the public about his parental heritage. Myth #2 – Common law states that being born on the soil – Jus Soli – makes one a “natural born subject” and therefore every person born on US soil is a “natural born citizen” It has been established very clearly that there is no such common law in the United States. “Natural born citizens” are in no way, shape or form, the same as “natural born subjects”. Myth # 3 – Vattell’s definition of a natural born citizen was not considered by the framers.
Attorney Collins of “The American Law Review” discusses Vattel in great detail. And Collins agrees that to be a natural born citizen one must be born on the soil of parents who were themselves citizens. Collins quotes Vattell.
But more important is the fact that Collins makes it clear Vattel’s definition of “natural born citizen” was not actually Vattel’s definition.
This is very important.
The definition of “natural born citizen” was not created by Vattel in his treatise, “Law of Nations.” That treatise simply discussed the established body of law known as “the law of nations”. The definition of natural born citizen discussed in Vattel’s treatise was actually the definition established by the body of law known as “law of nations”.
Attorney Collins makes all of this quite clear in the article below. Now please review Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution:
The Congress shall have power…To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the Law of Nations;
The capital letters are not in reference to Vattel’s treatise, but they are in reference to the body of law Vattel wrote about – the actual “law of nations”. And that body of law – according to Attorney Collins as well as Vattell – held that a “natural born citizen” was somebody with connections to the nation for having been born on the soil as well as having been born of citizen parents. In Article 1, Section 8, we therefore have a direct recognition that the framers respected the law of nations.This is what the framers required for the Commander In Chief. Any child of immigrants from any nation could become President – as long as his parents became naturalized US citizens before that child was born on US soil. In their wisdom, the framers sought two generations of US citizenship. This discriminates against no race at all.
To be an American has nothing to do with race. It has to do with being a person cloaked in liberty – free from monarchy, free of repression, free forever.
The natural born citizen clause does not establish a superior form of citizenship. It does establish a national security safeguard against foreign invasion of the White House and takeover of the US Armed Forces.
It makes all the sense in the world that the person who holds the keys to the massive nuclear arsenal in our possession should be born on US soil to parents who were citizens. If Obama is eligible to be President, then the sons of every despicable despot are also eligible.
It’s not like North Korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran are going to let the sons of US citizens lead their countries anytime soon. Are we really going to allow their sons to lead our nation? The framers would never have allowed such a horrific situation to exist. With the natural born citizen clause they protected us against this very scenario. We must protect the protection.
A legal fraud is being perpetrated upon this nation through ridicule and straight up major media propaganda. Until you folks learn the applicable laws and understand the intent of the Founding Fathers of this Nation, you will be as dangerously lost as the blind leading the blind on a tenously narrow footpath next to a one thousand foot cliff.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:55 pm

24AheadDotCom – You are precisely correct. Obamawhores are shamelessly ignorant tools!


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:00 pm

Please show us where Governor Lingle said the “COLB” posted on the internet and what is on file with Hawai’i vital records are one and the same. SHE DIDN’T, and NEITHER DID DOCTOR FUKINO, which proves they are playing a mind game of misdirection, which has been very effective on you simpletons.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:19 pm

Ok, Lawyer, you want to continue this? Let’s check your knowledge as to how much you know. What is a Birth Certificate?


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:48 pm

Be careful. You’re going to blow the little idiot’s mind. This is a dog barking from the end of her chain.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:51 pm

Obviously, this fake lawyer is an unqualified drooler and complete idiot. I think we have enough proof.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:52 pm

You have no proof he wasn’t, dipstick.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:56 pm

I know that, major, they haven’t EVER had anything but their forged documents, wild theories, and their free hand pounding away over the thought of seeing Obama’s privates. I just get them talking for a while, get them to start getting frustrated with me, then sooner or later they type themselves into a corner and admit that Obama is our legal president without even realizing it. They are, after all, blowers…the last thing you have to worry about with them is intelligence.


mikeyc1953
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 1:02 pm

Bryant,

We have not “escaped big government.” It grew to unimaginable size during “King George the 2nd's” reign. We became hopelessly involved in a war that was based on lies and misinformation, had no goals or limits, whose total costs are outrageous both in capitol and young Americans! That's what the Rethugican party has done for America!


b. hawes
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 1:10 pm

The birth place could easily be resolved just by looking at the mothers passport, if she had one. She couldn't go to Africa without one.
Can't find hers, check the fathers. Unlikely he would be absent during the birth of his only son.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

Birth place WAS easily resolved…it's called a Hawaii BC, good in all 50 states, federal government, and around the world. Just because some blowers don't like it, doesn't change that fact.


Ego Nemo
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 1:58 pm

Greater than 20 percent of Democrats — better than 1-in-5 — are uncertain or worse of the president's clearly-documented citizenship?

More than expected — a casts some doubt on the poll's accuracy.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 7:17 pm

And, like most dogs…all bark and no bite. Only the blowers are all BS and no clue.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:47 pm

In the very near future, the lying knucklehead “Obama” and his delusional followers are going to be extremely shocked at the scandal that will make Watergate look like nothing.


monkey99
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:49 pm

That's the good thing about you birthers…. you never give up!! Keep toiling! It just keeps getting better and better!!


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:52 pm

Oh Great, now you're going to blame Obama for Watergate? You working on the forgeries now, or waiting for someone else to do them? That's good, I was getting tired of the same old BS from you folks.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:52 pm

ALL states mandate that the “long form” be produced on demand. Where do you come up with such foolish claims as “…most states ONLY have the short form?”? Jim, either you don't know what you're talking about AND/OR you're a pathological liar. The story about the states destroying all paper records is pure B/S! Call your state and ASK – before you make an even bigger fool of yourself!


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:52 pm

ALL states mandate that the “long form” be produced on demand. Where do you come up with such foolish claims as “…most states ONLY have the short form?”? Jim, either you don't know what you're talking about AND/OR you're a pathological liar. The story about the states destroying all paper records is pure B/S! Call your state and ASK – before you make an even bigger fool of yourself!


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:59 pm

KayC – It has ABSOLUTELY NOT “been proven” Obama was born in Hawai'i. That's an outright LIE. SHOW ME ONE SHRED OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE THAT CAN BE LAWFULLY ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE IN A COURT OF LAW, JUST ONE! Damn! You Obamawhores believe and repeat every lie Obama tells, what a disgraceful bunch of ignorant freaks and mindless kooks!


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

BRRRRRRP! Wrong again, Lawyer. Why do you folks make this so easy. Missouri thought about doing that for about 5 minutes…then realized that the State of Missouri ONLY issues “short form” BC's. In fact, if they had passed the law, it was pointed out that then ONLY people born in Missouri would be ineligible to run for President in Missouri, since by the 10th amendment states are required BY LAW to accept legal documents from other states. So, your mandate would only be binding for the state's BC's, not other states. You are such an idiot it is pathetic. Before using the moniker of “lawyer” you should really try reading up on a few laws! LOLOLOL


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:01 pm

Then why are over three hundred top architects and engineers listed as members of Gage's group, mister all mouth, no brain?


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:03 pm

“mantis” obviously doesn't possess the intellectual capacity to cross the street without assistance.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:13 pm

It's called the Hawaii BC lawyer…good in all 50 states and with any transaction with the federal government including passports, and becoming president. The only thing that hasn't been 'proven' is where they have you blowers locked up and why they keep letting you use computers…they should really only allow you crayons and paper so you don't hurt yourself. Yelling in caps isn't going to change that.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:31 pm

There is NOT ONE SHRED OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE which proves Obama is a “natural born Citizen” of these United States – in fact, he has ADMITTED that his father's British/Kenyan citizenship was inherited at birth – From “FactCheck.org –
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.” The law says BOTH PARENTS must be U.S.Citizens at the time a child is born to them in order for the child to be a “natural born Citizen”, therefore, no matter WHERE Obama was born, he CANNOT be a “natural born Citizen”, that is an undeniable legal fact! A common “Citizen” CANNOT legally become President, ONLY a “natural born Citizen” is Constitutionally eligible. Under established law, birthplace is secondary to parentage! Before you even begin, neither Doctor Fukino, nor Governor Linda Lingle have the legal power to declare any person a “natural born Citizen”. Common myths – Myth #1 – Chester Arthur’s British birth was known and accepted by the American people.- It has been argued that Chester Arthur’s occupation of the White House set a legal precedent for Obama since both Chester and Barack were born of British fathers. But the public – at the time Chester was running for VP and later when he became POTUS – never knew that Chester Arthur was a British subject since he successfully lied to the public about his parental heritage. Myth #2 – Common law states that being born on the soil – Jus Soli – makes one a “natural born subject” and therefore every person born on US soil is a “natural born citizen” It has been established very clearly that there is no such common law in the United States. “Natural born citizens” are in no way, shape or form, the same as “natural born subjects”. Myth # 3 – Vattell’s definition of a natural born citizen was not considered by the framers.
Attorney Collins of “The American Law Review” discusses Vattel in great detail. And Collins agrees that to be a natural born citizen one must be born on the soil of parents who were themselves citizens. Collins quotes Vattell.
But more important is the fact that Collins makes it clear Vattel’s definition of “natural born citizen” was not actually Vattel’s definition.
This is very important.
The definition of “natural born citizen” was not created by Vattel in his treatise, “Law of Nations.” That treatise simply discussed the established body of law known as “the law of nations”. The definition of natural born citizen discussed in Vattel’s treatise was actually the definition established by the body of law known as “law of nations”.
Attorney Collins makes all of this quite clear in the article below. Now please review Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution:
The Congress shall have power…To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the Law of Nations;
The capital letters are not in reference to Vattel’s treatise, but they are in reference to the body of law Vattel wrote about – the actual “law of nations”. And that body of law – according to Attorney Collins as well as Vattell – held that a “natural born citizen” was somebody with connections to the nation for having been born on the soil as well as having been born of citizen parents. In Article 1, Section 8, we therefore have a direct recognition that the framers respected the law of nations.This is what the framers required for the Commander In Chief. Any child of immigrants from any nation could become President – as long as his parents became naturalized US citizens before that child was born on US soil. In their wisdom, the framers sought two generations of US citizenship. This discriminates against no race at all.
To be an American has nothing to do with race. It has to do with being a person cloaked in liberty – free from monarchy, free of repression, free forever.
The natural born citizen clause does not establish a superior form of citizenship. It does establish a national security safeguard against foreign invasion of the White House and takeover of the US Armed Forces.
It makes all the sense in the world that the person who holds the keys to the massive nuclear arsenal in our possession should be born on US soil to parents who were citizens. If Obama is eligible to be President, then the sons of every despicable despot are also eligible.
It’s not like North Korea, Saudi Arabia or Iran are going to let the sons of US citizens lead their countries anytime soon. Are we really going to allow their sons to lead our nation? The framers would never have allowed such a horrific situation to exist. With the natural born citizen clause they protected us against this very scenario. We must protect the protection.
A legal fraud is being perpetrated upon this nation through ridicule and straight up major media propaganda. Until you folks learn the applicable laws and understand the intent of the Founding Fathers of this Nation, you will be as dangerously lost as the blind leading the blind.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:38 pm

Being born on U.S. soil does NOT automatically qualify a person as a “natural born Citizen”, it also requires BOTH PARENTS be United States Citizens at the time a child is born to them, and NO, the 14th Amendment does NOT cover “natural born Citizen” status, it only covers common “Citizenship”, which does NOT meet the Constitutional qualification to become President.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:41 pm

“mantis”, please show us where Doctor Fukino holds ANY legal authority to determine whether or not a person is a “natural born Citizen”! Fukino holds NO SUCH LEGAL AUTHORITY, therefore, her statements amount to nothing but a handful of hot air.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:43 pm

“xcott” – You have NO legal knowledge whatsoever.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:45 pm

Jim – Excuse me, but can you present any legally proven facts to back your claims, or, as in your present comment, are you only capable of making childish ad hominem attacks?


KingsAndBetter
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 4:58 pm

The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution states
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.
According to Snopes, “Since Hawaii is part of the United States, even if Barack Obama's parents were both non-U.S. citizens who hadn't even set foot in the country until just before he was born, he'd still qualify as a natural-born citizen.”[38] Despite this, there have been claims that, although born in Hawaii, Obama does not qualify as a “natural-born citizen”.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:02 pm

Sorry, Lawyer, couldn't read the whole rambling…it makes no sense. You see, The SCOTUS says he's an NBC, the constitution says he's an NBC, the congress says he's an NBC, heck, a majority of the american public says he's an NBC. Making things up does not change that. You really need to change your moniker…wait a minute…is that you Facts dressed up in a new moniker? Sounds like it.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:04 pm

So, now you're going to overturn SCOTUS? Tell me Lawyer, if you are born in the USA, what kind of citizen does that make you? The constitution only has 2 Natural born and Naturalized, so which one would someone born in the US fall under, in your opinion? (This ought to be good!)


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:06 pm

Sure, Obama's president, accepted by congress, the SCOTUS, and the american people, except for a few delusional people who have no understanding of the constitution and law of the land. He was legally sworn in. Therefore, my claims are backed up by the complete federal government and all 50 states of the union. What have you got?


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:17 pm

Well, Lawyer, since you know so much about hot air, I'll defer to you on that. However, the SCOTUS hold a much higher authority than an anonymous message board poster who goes by the moniker of “Lawyer” and knows nothing about the laws of our land, so I'll go with them. So remember, when you start screaming in capital letters again, you, yourself have now said you hold NO SUCH LEGAL AUTHORITY to question the state of Hawaii about how they keep their records, or to bring any kind of question about the authenticity of their records. Thanks for finally seeing that all you have is hot air…You got nothing, you get nothing.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:22 pm

The pathologically lying, delusional idiot is in your mirror.

Another B.S. troll from the pretend “Lawyer”, King of the Sock Puppets.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:24 pm

“The difference is Obama has never produced one shred of proof he was born in America, but there's a mountain of proof showing he was born in Kenya.”

You have that backwards, twit. How hard was that blow to the head?


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:27 pm

Yet another meaningless troll from the drivel master. This nitwit is truly clueless, paranoid and delusional. Vattel's writings are not U.S. law, idiot.

It's really too bad stupidity isn't painful.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:28 pm

Hey, Mantis, Congrats. An insult from a blower is like a complement from the majority. Obviously, Lawyer just complemented you, so you've succeeded in getting under his/her skin. Good job and keep up the good work!


xcott
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:29 pm

Over three hundred? Do you have any idea how pointlessly small that is?

Just in the US alone, there's over 1.6 million architects and engineers. The bottom hundredth of a percent or so are on this list.

That's about as fringe as you can get, with numbers more pathetic than flat-earthers and Biblical creationists.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:34 pm

BZZZT. Wrong again, dittohead. You are a freak of nature and deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for being such an amazing, pathetic buffoon.

See if you can wrap your miniscule pea brain around the wording on the certified legal document of the President's birth:

“This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.
[HRS 338-13(b), 338-19]“

You really are a lying idiot with more spare time than common sense.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:35 pm

Once again let me explain. You DESERVE to be mocked and ridiculed. Have someone read that to you.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:36 pm

And you have zero knowledge or sense. xcott wins.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:42 pm

Pretend “Lawyer” obviously has no capacity for logic or reason. This is a sock puppet master who obeys the voices in the mirror.


Majority Will
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 5:45 pm

You ZERO qualifications and no credibility, little freak of nature.

You are flat out wrong, easily disproved and a mindless idiot.


xcott
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 7:14 pm

It's funny how these conspiracies are always supposed to be exposed any day now. And we'll all be sorry.

It's a common theme in pseudoscience I call the “crackpot apocalypse.” The crackpot envisions some day in the near future where he is totally proven right, and horrible things happen to all the people who gave him a hard time.

Sometimes these fantasies are violent and explicit. A physics crackpot name George Hammond believes he has a scientific proof of God; several times he has predicted a massive, violent popular uprising where the general public pores over his equations, they all realize he is right, and then they go to kill the scientists who were lying to them all this time.

Another crackpot named Daniel Joseph Min used to routinely predict global cataclysms around the turn of the century—he'd predict specific dates for a massive meteor strike about once a month for several years, all from his reading of Nostradamus. He would occasionally add to his predictions that all the “debunkers” would be killed.

But one way or another, the result is the same: a day comes when the TRVTH is clear to all, the believer is totally vindicated, and all the doubters will suffer and regret their corruption and cruelty.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 8:45 pm

Hey, xcott, leave us flat-earthers out of this argument…I'm still paddling to find the edge. Give me just a little more time. Tomorrow, I will reach the edge and then the rest of you will be sorry. Once I reach the edge, the heavens will open up and swallow up all you non-believers and anoint all those who believe. THE FLAT SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH!


mantis
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 9:01 pm

There aren't. Look at the list. Very few of those people fit the description, as is true of all bullshit whacko petitions (anti-evolution, etc.). Those who do tend to have “degrees” from unaccredited institutions, unsurprisingly. My guess is those with actual credentials didn't actually agree to what that website claims, another common tactic among bullshit whacko petition peddlers.

FAIL


mantis
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 9:03 pm

I would cross the street, but it was destroyed using CONTROLLED DEMOLITION!!!!111!!! NEWWORLDORDERILLUMINATINAZIUNFLOURIDEINTHEWATERISACOMMUNISTPLOT1!!!!!11111


mantis
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 9:07 pm

In the very near future, rare Truther+Birther “Lawyer” will suffer from massive head trauma due to the fact that his brain exploded from the most powerful case of cognitive dissonance in human history. If someone could get video that would be great.


Jim
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 9:44 pm

No problem Mantis, here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA


Steve_X
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 5:55 am

Hmmm…a birfer who not only calls himself a lawyer, but happens to be completely deranged at the same time. Interesting.

Wait…Orly, is that you?


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 6:01 am

Steve X – So you very foolishly believe everything Obama says? How's your mental illness coming along? Can you feed yourself yet? Oh, you really shouldn't put that in your mouth, it's nasty. I know evil Obama told you it's a candy bar, but he was lying, as usual.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 6:04 am

A person can ONLY become a “natural born Citizen” at BIRTH, the foremost legal requirement is BOTH PARENTS must be U.S. Citizens at the time a child is born to them in order for the child to become a “natural born Citizen”. Obama's father was here on a student visa, he was NEVER a U.S. Citizen, therefore Obama, according to his own website, “Fight the Smears”, was governed by his father's British/Kenyan citizenship. – The following quote is from “Fight the Smears” AND “FactCheck.org” –
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.” – …….Do you comprehend that a person's citizenship CANNOT be governed by British/Kenyan law at birth, then MIRACULOUSLY convert to a “natural born Citizen” of the U.S.A. at age twenty one?! OBAMA, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, WAS NOT LEGALLY A “NATURAL BORN CITIZEN” of the U.S.A. AT BIRTH, nor can his status EVER change under ANY circumstances. Do you “get it” YET?! Do you understand what the legal term “confession” means? can you not read Obama's CONFESSION posted on his own website?! WOW! How little you Obama supporting folks comprehend.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 6:30 am

AJX ROCKS – “SUI JURIS” is British common law and it does NOT apply within the United States. “SUI JURIS” is the British theory of common law that makes a British person a “NATURAL BORN SUBJECT”, NOT A “NATURAL BORN CITIZEN”. No such common law exists in the USA. And don't even bother starting with “the 14th Amendment”, it only covers the classification known as “CITIZEN”, it does not address “natural born Citizen”.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 6:33 am

You apply the term “cognitive dissonance” about every third post. It must make you feel very “special” to fling that poop every few lines.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 6:38 am

AGAIN. For the edification of the public who missed seeing it earlier, here are the legal facts that signal the end of Obama's ongoing sham. BY LAW, ALL (100%) OF OBAMA'S VITAL RECORDS ON FILE IN HAWAI'I MUST NOW BE PRODUCED FOR PUBLIC VIEWING : “A report published today by the Post and Email’s John Charlton, chronicled that a citizen, having read and understood Part 1 of the Terrik investigation, requested that Hawaii Department of Health (DoH) Communications Director, Janice Okubo, forward to him “index data” pertaining to vital records of Barack Obama, citing Haw. Rev. Stat. 338-18(d). Okubo’s illegal and evasive response shows a continuing offensive pattern of misdirection:

Subject: RE: Dear Dr. Janice Okubo
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:09:29 -1000
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: Dear Dr. Janice Okubo
Thread-Index: Aco9LwEBdvqZvY6wQAmINB4Ua3X91gAGRdkg
From: “Okubo, Janice S.” <janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov>
To: XXXX
X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.5.409

Aloha Mr. XXXX,
State law prohibits the Department of Health from disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest in the record. This includes verification of vital records and all the information contained in a record. Direct and tangible interest is determined by HRS §338-18(b) which can be found at: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_

This concludes our responses to your questions, no further response will be provided.

Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health
1250 Punchbowl Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813
Phone: (808) 586-4442
Fax: (808) 586-4444
email: janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov
Okubo cites 338-18(b) while completely ignoring 338-18(d), which states:

(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.

Index data is information. And as I pointed out in yesterday’s report, various OIP Opinion Letters state that this information must be made available to the public, no exceptions apply.

Yet, Okubo’s response tells the citizen that “State law prohibits the Department of Health from disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record…”

That’s a direct lie.

Okubo’s continuing pattern of misdirecting citizens from appropriate statute sections is reprehensible.

It states in the UIPA Manual at page 10:

The UIPA requires agencies to disclose all “government records.” This term is defined broadly to include any information maintained by an agency that is recorded in any physical form.

So, when Okubo is asked for “index data” pertaining to vital records under 338-18(d), and she responds that state law prohibits the release of “any information” pertaining to vital records, please understand that she is lying in direct opposition to the UIPA as well as Haw. Rev. Stat. 338-18(d). Do not despair. Okubo is employed by the DoH, but the Office of Information Practices (OIP) is a separate office which exists to police and advise the actions of other state of Hawaii agencies in their compliance with the UIPA. Haw. Rev. Stat. 338-18(d) is a law which demands information be released.

Okubo has not only failed to release the index data, she’s told various citizens that state law prohibits the release of “any information” regarding vital records to the general public.

The OIP must address this continuing wrongful statement. They are the authority charged with official review of Okubo’s activities with regard to the UIPA. Although the OIP has been much more forthright than the DoH, the OIP is now called upon to exercise its statutory purpose under the UIPA manual, which states at page 7:

The Hawaii State Legislature enacted the Uniform Information Practices Act (Modified) (the “UIPA”) based upon this premise that a democracy vests the people with the ultimate decision making power and government exists only to aid the people in the exercise of that power.

State of Hawaii, take notice – the people will be exercising their power. The people will be made to understand their power under the UIPA. The people will receive all information due to them under the UIPA. And the people will prevail.” From the State of Hawai'i – http://www.state.hi.us/oip/uipa.html#92F1 – Follow the link, read the law, THEN comment.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 6:40 am

When Janice Okubo, Doctor Fukino, and Governor Linda Lingle made statements concerning Obama's vital records, they created an automatic release of records requirement under Hawai'i “Uniform Information Practices Act”, thus the records Obama has attempted to conceal are now legally open to the public. Okubo, Fukino, and Lingle are obviously not very bright, in attempting a “cya” move on behalf of Obama, they pulled the sheets right off his naked background. We already know Obama's vital records have been “amended”, now we'll discover precisely how AND why. Obama's Presidency is a legal problem with its throttle stuck wide open and no brakes, it's only a matter of time until the inevitable occurs…SCREEEEEEECHHHHHHHHHHHHH


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 6:50 am

Time will prove the rulings and findings I have posted are true and correct. As the very wise, patient, and cunning Attorney Leo Donofrio so correctly stated on Friday : “State of Hawaii, take notice – the people will be exercising their power. The people will be made to understand their power under the UIPA. The people will receive all information due to them under the UIPA. And the people will prevail.

Model UIPA requests, model OIP appeals and model judicial appeals are being drafted.

The state of Hawaii must know that attempts at evasion will not be successful. You have laws. The laws were written to command government.

Government will be commanded.

The public – previously a sleeping giant – is now awake. The giant is big and powerful. The government will kneel before the giant as the government is not separate to the body of the giant – the government is simply an intellectual limb extending from the body of the giant.

That limb is not a separate entity.

The giant may have suffered a bit of mental illness in thinking that the government limb was an overlord. But the giant is smiling in the mirror now as it recognizes – perhaps for the first time – that the limb is part of the giant’s anatomy.

The giant will command the DoH to issue all information due to the giant under the appropriate laws. The UIPA is such a law. As an attorney, I am very impressed with the UIPA. It’s easy to read, understand, implement and draft appeals under. Whoever drafted it was very skilled. They did the public giant justice. The UIPA was written to protect the eyes of the giant.

DoH Communications Director Okubo has placed her thumb directly in the eye of the giant. She never got the memo – “Giant is awake”.

Her thumb will be removed from the giant’s eye.”

Written by Leo C. Donofrio, Citizen Attorney, September 25, 2009.


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 6:52 am

Here you are, read it and weep – “110TH CONGRESS
2D SESSION
S. RES. __
Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen. _______________
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
Mrs. MCCASKILL (D) (for herself and Mr. LEAHY (D), ### Mr. OBAMA ### (D), Mr. COBURN (R), Mrs. CLINTON (D), and Mr. WEBB (D)”… (Summary of findings of Senate Judiciary Committee by Senator Leahy, (D) Vermont – http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200804/041008c.html) – Obama, by his OWN definition, is NOT Constitutionally qualified. Quotes from Judiciary Committee hearing : “Because he was born to American citizens, there is no doubt in my mind that Senator McCain is a natural born citizen,” said Leahy. “I expect that this will be a unanimous resolution of the Senate.”
“It is silly for anyone to argue that Senator McCain is not eligible to become president,” said McCaskill. “I would hope that this is something we can all agree on, for goodness sakes.”
Michael Chertoff said “My assumption and my understanding is that if you are born of American parents, you are naturally a natural-born American citizen”. “That is mine, too,” said Leahy”. End quotes. “…American parentS”, proving the Committee (Senator Obama was a voting member) unanimously found that BOTH PARENTS MUST BE American Citizens to make their child a “natural born Citizen”. Obama Senior was NOT a Citizen. What is required of ONE candidate, MUST, BY LAW, be required of ALL candidates. Obama's first act, “Executive Order #13489″ on 21 January, 2009, sealed ALL Obama's background records, public AND private, thus he instantly broke his campaign promise of “transparency”. Is there anything else you want to know?


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 7:06 am

Fukino, Okubo, and Lingle = “The Three Hawai'ian Stooges”. BY LAW, ALL (100%) OF OBAMA'S VITAL RECORDS ON FILE IN HAWAI'I MUST NOW BE PRODUCED FOR PUBLIC VIEWING : “A report published today by the Post and Email’s John Charlton, chronicled that a citizen, having read and understood Part 1 of the Terrik investigation, requested that Hawaii Department of Health (DoH) Communications Director, Janice Okubo, forward to him “index data” pertaining to vital records of Barack Obama, citing Haw. Rev. Stat. 338-18(d). Okubo’s illegal and evasive response shows a continuing offensive pattern of misdirection:

Subject: RE: Dear Dr. Janice Okubo
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:09:29 -1000
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: Dear Dr. Janice Okubo
Thread-Index: Aco9LwEBdvqZvY6wQAmINB4Ua3X91gAGRdkg
From: “Okubo, Janice S.” <janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov>
To: XXXX
X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.5.409

Aloha Mr. XXXX,
State law prohibits the Department of Health from disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest in the record. This includes verification of vital records and all the information contained in a record. Direct and tangible interest is determined by HRS §338-18(b) which can be found at: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_

This concludes our responses to your questions, no further response will be provided.

Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health
1250 Punchbowl Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813
Phone: (808) 586-4442
Fax: (808) 586-4444
email: janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov
Okubo cites 338-18(b) while completely ignoring 338-18(d), which states:

(d) Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.

Index data is information. And as I pointed out in yesterday’s report, various OIP Opinion Letters state that this information must be made available to the public, no exceptions apply.

Yet, Okubo’s response tells the citizen that “State law prohibits the Department of Health from disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record…”

That’s a direct lie.

Okubo’s continuing pattern of misdirecting citizens from appropriate statute sections is reprehensible.

It states in the UIPA Manual at page 10:

The UIPA requires agencies to disclose all “government records.” This term is defined broadly to include any information maintained by an agency that is recorded in any physical form.

So, when Okubo is asked for “index data” pertaining to vital records under 338-18(d), and she responds that state law prohibits the release of “any information” pertaining to vital records, please understand that she is lying in direct opposition to the UIPA as well as Haw. Rev. Stat. 338-18(d). Do not despair. Okubo is employed by the DoH, but the Office of Information Practices (OIP) is a separate office which exists to police and advise the actions of other state of Hawaii agencies in their compliance with the UIPA. Haw. Rev. Stat. 338-18(d) is a law which demands information be released.

Okubo has not only failed to release the index data, she’s told various citizens that state law prohibits the release of “any information” regarding vital records to the general public.

The OIP must address this continuing wrongful statement. They are the authority charged with official review of Okubo’s activities with regard to the UIPA. Although the OIP has been much more forthright than the DoH, the OIP is now called upon to exercise its statutory purpose under the UIPA manual, which states at page 7:

The Hawaii State Legislature enacted the Uniform Information Practices Act (Modified) (the “UIPA”) based upon this premise that a democracy vests the people with the ultimate decision making power and government exists only to aid the people in the exercise of that power.

State of Hawaii, take notice – the people will be exercising their power. The people will be made to understand their power under the UIPA. The people will receive all information due to them under the UIPA. And the people will prevail.” From the State of Hawai'i – http://www.state.hi.us/oip/uipa.html#92F1


Lawyer
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 7:17 am

A day of reckoning is coming in America. Obama has ignored his sworn oath and flaunted the supreme law of the land and the Citizenry now collectively demands that justice be done. Each president recites the following oath, in accordance with Article II, Section I of the U.S. Constitution:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Obama premeditatedly, purposely, and knowingly violated this solemn oath of office even as he swore to uphold it. How can the Citizens of America possibly trust and endure such a willfully contemptuous villain and instantaneous traitor? May God richly bless, awaken, and save America. So mote it be, Amen.


MarkInOhio
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 11:51 am

So typical! Exactly backwards. The fact is, there is not one shred of “proof” for the ridiculous idea of a Kenya birth, and a mountain of proof for Hawaii. I marvel at your ability to be 100% totally wrong on this.

I swear, you can take anything a wingnut says, reverse everything in it, and end up with the Gospel Truth. If only we had someone who was right as often as these wackaloons are wrong!


monkey99
Comment posted September 26, 2009 @ 4:18 pm

So much madness, so little time, hmmm?

Gosh, feel better? Now that you've regurgitated all that mess all over the page. I won't ask you what it says, I have a feeling it's nonsense anyway.

Is this the best you toilers can do? Can you interject, I dunno, Aliens or something? The message is getting kind of stale. How about aliens came and REPLACED Obama with a robot! Or maybe Obama is secretly leading from the tenth (or is it “eleventeenth” in your parlance) dimension! Or maybe Obama IS an alien!

On second thought, maybe not…..you'de have an even harder time proving that, than the nosense you're trying to prove now!


chrisjay
Comment posted September 27, 2009 @ 5:37 am

Jesus H ! Lawyer, I think we're gonna just have to run the white flag up the pole and bare our necks to you— On behalf of we, the vanquished, I give you the Obama banner to do with what you will; I am beyond astonished at the sheer volume of of information-free noise which you are able to deliver to this site. Where do you find the energy to generate this dreck? I am well and truly amazed..
———-'…the lying knucklehead “Obama”…' huh, that's a good burn. I gotta remember that one!


chrisjay
Comment posted September 27, 2009 @ 5:43 am

Here, Bryant, take this pill. You sound a little stressed. It's okay I've got plenty more where that one came from! Damn straight my insurance company pays for them.


Bryant
Comment posted September 27, 2009 @ 6:21 am

Hey brother, enjoy it why it lasts. Once the government takes over health care, you and many other things, will be deamed an “unnecessary cost”. I'm sorry to hear about your pill issues, I guess your just keeping up with the trends though. BTW, no I'm not stressed out, I'm just amazed by our current society & our government. Peace


Bryant
Comment posted September 27, 2009 @ 6:29 am

Mikey, I agree with you on most of your comment. Except, it was not just the Republican party. A better description would be “Politicians” in general. Once again, there we go with the “Classifications”, which equals division. “Rethugican party” cute, did you think of that all by yourself?


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Truthy Truther
Comment posted October 8, 2009 @ 1:18 am

Dear Liar, er Lawyer. It was Chief Justice John Roberts who messed up the oath. Obama merely tried to avoid reciting an incorrect version of the oath on the Bible.


HDB329
Comment posted October 8, 2009 @ 7:05 pm

What people are failiig to realize is that IF a person in born on American SOIL or has ONE American parent, then that person is deemed American! Obama was born in Hawai'i….at last statement, Hawai'i IS the 50th State in the Union!! The Secretary of State has shown the Certificate of LIVE BIRTH..which is the Hawai'ian designation of a birth certificate!

If a child born to two illegal immigrants were born in California, that child is an American citizen!! Obama fits the definition; PLEASE refrain from such lunacy!!! It's proof that racism is still rampant is the USA….and that people don't know the law!!


RedGraham
Comment posted October 16, 2009 @ 7:56 am

When I joined the United States Army I had to show my original long form birth certificate.
When I became a police officer I had to show my original long form birth certificate.
I didn't point Army officials to some website with a jpeg image of what “appears” to be a certification of live birth document. Which by the way, is NOT valid evidence in any court of law that I know of.
Additionally, I didn't hire Perkins Coie to fight release of said long form and I didn't send DOJ lawyers to do the same thing.
If every soldier has to provide the original bc then the Commander in Chief should follow the same rules. that is unless he has something to hide.
Obama is hiding something.


Majority Will
Comment posted October 16, 2009 @ 4:53 pm

You've spammed this in many places. Repeating nonsense does not make it true.

You're a sick, delusional paranoid idiot and I honestly don't care if you get help.

“Obama can't release the “long-form” version of his birth certificate, because it no longer exists, if it ever did. The Hawaii Department of Health has already said that it does not maintain 'short-form” and “long-form' certificates.

Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, [Health Department Spokeswoman] Okubo said the Health Department “does not have a short-form or long-form certificate.”
'The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models,' she said.”


Majority Will
Comment posted October 16, 2009 @ 4:55 pm

You are sad, little, mad barking dog at the end of her chain.

You are irrelevant. Mildly entertaining, but irrelevant.


Majority Will
Comment posted October 16, 2009 @ 4:57 pm

It's a non-binding resolution. Not law.

Just like the House statement confirming that Obama was born in Hawaii.

You are irrelevant.

Transparency referred to political action and not revealing personal information for identity thieves like you. You are twisted and extremely sick.


Majority Will
Comment posted October 16, 2009 @ 4:59 pm

You have position to accuse others of mental illness, you mad barking dog.

You are irrelevant.


Majority Will
Comment posted October 16, 2009 @ 5:00 pm

In the very near future, you will be locked up in a mental hospital. Count on it.


Majority Will
Comment posted October 16, 2009 @ 5:01 pm

Fling poop? How poetic. You are irrelevant.


RedGraham
Comment posted October 17, 2009 @ 5:51 am

Obama has a way out of this. He could do the honorable thing and resign before any indictments making Biden the legal president. Biden could then pardon Obama of treason, falsifying documents, etc. Everybody wins except then that goofy Biden would be our prez. But oh well.
Judge sets court date in 'birther' case filed by Wiley Drake
By Bob Allen (from The Examiner)
Thursday, September 10, 2009
BUENA PARK, Calif. (ABP) — The so-called “Birthers” claimed a small victory Sept. 8 when a federal judge set a tentative trial date of Jan. 26, 2010, for a lawsuit claiming that President Obama is constitutionally ineligible for his office.
“We won again,” Wiley Drake, a former second vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention, said of the ruling by federal judge David Carter. Drake is one of several plaintiffs in the lawsuit alleging that Obama cannot hold his office because he does not meet the constitutional requirement that the president be a “natural-born” citizen.


internetto
Comment posted October 18, 2009 @ 8:05 am

http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Internetto

89% of Republicans goosestep because they have poopypants.

Never vote for a Republican.
You know better now.


internetto
Comment posted October 18, 2009 @ 8:06 am

http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Internetto

89% of Republicans goosestep because they have poopypants.

Never vote for a Republican.
You know better now.


bearclaw
Comment posted October 20, 2009 @ 6:14 pm

Is it the “very near future” yet? Still waiting. If I had a dollar for every time you birfers have made predictions about the imminent downfall of the President, I'd be able to buy Bernie Madoff's beach house.

If you know what the “shocking scandal” is, why don't you get the ball rolling by sharing that information? Oh, right, you pulled this out of your butt.

I'll bet you believe in “The Rapture” as well.


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Anthony
Comment posted January 6, 2010 @ 6:32 am

We know that Bush had some knowledge of a pending attack. However, there was no way that he had any involvement of the attacks. Truthers exaggerate the facts.

We know that Obama has produced his birth certificate, even though “birth certificate” is found now where on the document. However, the difference in terminology doesn't diminish the fact that he did produce a birth certificate. Birthers are dismissing the facts.

With that said. It would be easy to assume that truthers would out number birthers.

Even with the assumption that people would be concerned with how the attacks happened, it is still possible to assume truthers would be more.

However, with the pain all American felt by the attack it is obvious that the number of truthers would be less.

Both positions are utterly illogical and void of substantial facts.


Anthony
Comment posted January 6, 2010 @ 11:32 am

We know that Bush had some knowledge of a pending attack. However, there was no way that he had any involvement of the attacks. Truthers exaggerate the facts.

We know that Obama has produced his birth certificate, even though “birth certificate” is found now where on the document. However, the difference in terminology doesn't diminish the fact that he did produce a birth certificate. Birthers are dismissing the facts.

With that said. It would be easy to assume that truthers would out number birthers.

Even with the assumption that people would be concerned with how the attacks happened, it is still possible to assume truthers would be more.

However, with the pain all American felt by the attack it is obvious that the number of truthers would be less.

Both positions are utterly illogical and void of substantial facts.


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