Rick Perry, Mitt Romney and W. Cleon Skousen

By
Monday, September 21, 2009 at 9:15 am

In my story today, I quote Gov. Rick Perry’s (R-Texas) incredibly specific reading suggestion for the audience at the Values Voter Summit.

“Lately,” said Perry, “I’ve found myself going back to a book that’s titled ‘The 5000 Year Leap.’”

There were head nods and noises of approval from many members of the audience. That book, written by the late ultra-conservative scholar-cum-conspiracy theorists Cleon Skousen, had been rescued from 28 years of obscurity by Glenn Beck. Perry gave an accurate summary of its content, telling the audiences that Skousen “shares his views of the foundational elements of our nation, placing a special emphasis in faith in God–I think undeniably a source of America’s remarkable success. He asserts that natural law, God’s law, is the basis of our nation’s laws.”

It’s worth pointing out how surprising this is.

Skousen, as Alexander Zaitchek wrote last week, was a scholar-turned-conspiracy theorist whose “The 5,000 Year Leap” re-packages Mormon ethics into an argument that the founding fathers were inspired by 28 “fundamental” and divine beliefs in the creation of America.

Perry’s comments reminded me of a forgotten moment from the 2008 campaign, when Mitt Romney got into a heated exchange with a radio host who had theological objections to Mormonism. A grainy video of that exchange is here.

“Cleon Skousen has a book called ‘A Thousand Years,’” said Romney, arguing against the rumor that he believed the Second Coming would happen in Missouri. “Christ appears, it’s throughout the Bible, Christ appears in Jerusalem, splits the Mount of Olives to stop the war that’s coming to kill all the Jews. Our church believes that.”

It’s strange to hear prominent national Republicans telling people to read Skousen. Here’s a short video introduction to the man.

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Comments

38 Comments

freddie11
Comment posted September 21, 2009 @ 1:46 pm

You really need to do your research. Skousen did a whole series of religious books, The First Thousand Years, Second Thousand Years, etc. on religions topics. Completely different from the 5000 year leap.

You may want to update your article, it looks foolish and unprofessional.


mantis
Comment posted September 21, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

Why? Because he doesn't mention each of Skousen's books? Why is that necessary?


freddie11
Comment posted September 21, 2009 @ 4:43 pm

Because he implies Mitt referencing the “thousand years” is talking about his political views, and not his religious books.

Why even bring up 500 year leap if that wasn't his intent?


blackhat
Comment posted September 21, 2009 @ 5:06 pm

Any one have optimism out there? I firmly believe the present administration does not share these views because they don't contemplate God has a plan. Told right or wrong the message is God has a plan, and America alive or destroyed cried out that truth. Todays message is are you going to go with God and the belief that He has your well being in mind, or are you going to wander off in your beliefs that He promises will be your destruction.The numerous amount of denominations are God derived as a hour glass of time, to hold mankind in faith but not unity till God say's it is time. We are traveling down Israel,s road of Ezehiel, for told, readable and regrettable.


mark_in_TX
Comment posted September 21, 2009 @ 5:48 pm

K, so I listened to the video introduction of the man. Why is it strange that people might reference a book written by him? Just becuase you put the label “conspiracy theorist” on him doesn't make him any less credible. What theories did he have that were so crazy? He sounds intelligent, articulate, and thoughful.
And I agree that Romney was not even referring to the same book that Gov. Perry was. This is a very misleading, and uninformative article.


Jon H
Comment posted September 21, 2009 @ 7:53 pm

Calling him a “scholar” is a bit of a stretch.


mantis
Comment posted September 21, 2009 @ 8:12 pm

Because he implies Mitt referencing the “thousand years” is talking about his political views, and not his religious books.

No, he doesn't.

Why even bring up 500 year leap if that wasn't his intent?

It's another book by the same author, who Beck has been pimping a lot recently. Weigel has written about it several times. The point was about Skousen, not one particular book.


mantis
Comment posted September 21, 2009 @ 8:18 pm

Just becuase you put the label “conspiracy theorist” on him doesn't make him any less credible.

No, the fact that it's true does.

And I agree that Romney was not even referring to the same book that Gov. Perry was.

No one said it was. How come wingnuts can't read?


scottyp
Comment posted September 22, 2009 @ 12:53 pm

Skousen was overbearing, removed as police chief, and over some of the most radical of militias, one which stated the LDS church was destined to rule over America, and suggested shooting political leaders they did not approve of what they were saying. Elizabeth Smarts kidnappers attended conferences held by Skousen.


scottyp
Comment posted September 22, 2009 @ 1:00 pm

In all fairness to non LDS members out there, when they attended Cleon's Freeman's Institute, they are not knowledgeable of LDS history, nor its objectives. Many have been beguiled on what is being presented as constitutional studies. Strange isn't it, a community which wanted to over throw the American government, set up a their prophet, as president uphold the constitution?

Time people learn their history and motives. Romney and Skousen family both come from the same area in Mexico sent their to serve their prophet and practice polygamy, the family are well acquainted with each other. Glen Beck is LDS, and no doubt has read too much Cleon Skousen.


jedmerrill
Comment posted September 22, 2009 @ 10:28 pm

Yes, we have come a long way with Mormons in government. Hopefully we will get Harry Reid OUT in 2010, but there are some good apples: W. Cleon Skousen (The 5000 Year Leap), Ezra Taft Benson (former Secretary of Agriculture), George Romney (Mitt's father, also called “the father of volunteerism” by Bush Sr.), Mitt Romney (who?), Glenn Beck (who is a convert), Orrin Hatch, Bob Bennett, and about a dozen other current Mormon Senators and Representatives.

This is significant progress from Joseph Smith, Mormon founder, being assassinated by a mob when he was running for President in 1844 as an anti-slavery (yet social justice) candidate, and the Mormon extermination order by Missouri Gov. Lilburn Boggs. We have yet to recover from Mike Huckabee, however… lol

I never heard Skousen in person, but I had his brother Royal as a professor at one time. I am very impressed with their family and their scholarship. I believe one of their grandsons is a filmmaker that is making government documentaries.


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 1:24 am

A bit of a spin, is it not jedmerrill

Jan 23,1852 – Brigham Young instructs Utah Legislature to legalize slavery because “we must believe in slavery.”
Aug 20,1859 – Brigham Young regarding slavery: “We consider it of divine institution, and not to be abolished until the curse pronounced on Ham shall have been removed from his descendants

Brigham Young thought slavery a divine institution.

And……….

Brigham Young said in 1863:

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”

Cunningham, shooting Buffalo soldiers in Arizona, while they were carrying government payroll. Cunningham shooting them calling the You black son of a bi***. Hailed a Mormon hero for the robbery.
RACIST LDS MORMON PROPHETS USING THE N WORD

LDS MORMON PROPHET Joseph Smith “and the rebellious NIGGERS in the slave states… ” (Millennial Star, 22:602;).”

LDS MORMON PROPHET JOHN TAYLOR “This Greeley is one of their popular characters in the East,and one that supports the stealing of NIGGERS…” [Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5 page 119]

LDS MORMON Apostle George A. Smith:..but would rob the coppers from a dead NIGGER'S eyes, if they had a good opportunity (Journal of Discourses, 5:110; ).

…the Lord God did cause a skin of BLACKNESS to come upon them (Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 5:21).”

“And the skins…were DARK…which WAS A CURSE upon them…(Book of Mormon, Alma 3:6)”

next post will deal with Joseph Smith


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 1:35 am

What?!

“resident in 1844 as an anti-slavery (yet social justice) candidate, and the Mormon extermination order by Missouri Gov. Lilburn Boggs”

WHAT?! There is a problem here too, someone is trying to change history trying to make Boggs a villain.

This speech below was given by Sidney Rigdon, prior to Boggs being shot in his home. Mormon people where the first to order extermination of the ‘gentiles’. You all like to twist the truth don’t you Merrill:

Hyde and the others conveniently forgot to mention that Joseph Smith sanctioned both of Rigdon's speeches. Smith had the church's own publication entitled the Elder's Journal print one of the speeches and encouraged all church members to purchase a copy and read it. When the “Gentiles” and former Mormons saw and heard what Rigdon said, and experienced the effects of the Mormon aggressions, the troubles heated up. Rigdon's speech included a “war of extermination, for we will follow them, till the last drop of their blood is spilled or else they will have to exterminate us” ( in otherwords, all the Christians were to be killed, no wonder Boggs responded back months later using the very words used by Rigdon and sanctioned by Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith was power hungry and corrupt.

Also: So what happened to Sidney?

“ significant factor to Rigdon's demise in the eyes of Utah Mormons was the conflict between his daughter and Joseph Smith. Nancy Rigdon, Sidney's daughter, was seduced by Joseph Smith when Smith was actively acquiring new wives.:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/sr.shtml


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 1:38 am

Some of the Skousens abuse their wives, and abuse their kids into submission. Their family mobs.


mark_in_TX
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 5:37 pm

“the fact that it's true does.”

Thanks for again making the claim without giving any substantiation for it.

“No one said it was. How come wingnuts can't read?”

Again, it was either purposely implied, or done in ignorance with no research behind it. And why take the insulting tone all of a sudden? It just makes you sound uneducated enough to come up with an actual argument. If you don't agree with Skousen, fine. But, “he's a crazy idiot, and so are you” just makes it sound like you have no foundation except pointless agression.


mark_in_TX
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 5:47 pm

Brigham Young also said that he couldn't believe how people misquoted and misused what he said while he was still alive, and couldn't image what people would say after he died. I think everything that has been quoted is total crap.

If the history of Mormonism is really so black and corrupt, lets look at the fruit of the organization that exists today as a result. Do you actually know anyone personally who is Mormon? Are they uneducated, rude, lazy, immoral bigots? I think not.
Obviously only Mormons agree with what Mormons believe, but you don't have to disagree in such an insulting and disagreeable way. You are free to believe as you wish, but don't be so hostile tword anyone who doesn't agree with you.


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 6:32 pm

Yes, actually quite a few, even Skousen's, mark-in-tx.

It is not being hostile, it is correcting the record. The hostility has not come from my end. Sad when people do not like the truth, but when they have lots to cover up, what can one expect, isn't that right mark in tx? Careful a lot of truth may come out.


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 6:34 pm

These are NO misquotes, factual historical record.


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 6:35 pm

These are NO misquotes, factual historical record.


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 6:59 pm

“Are they uneducated, rude, lazy, immoral bigots? I think not.” Immoral, yes. They hide a lie.

Uneducated? Some are, some or not, some prevent their children from being educated as part of their abuse.

Lazy? Depends on the use of the term.

Bigots? Yes, many are, and they love using the term against any one who disagrees with them. In private and among themselves, make fun of other races,degrade people not of their faith, are not truthful about the abuses they are involved in, have elitist attitudes, are unaccepting of people different from them. They instruct their people to be friendly on the surface for conversion purposes. Over tax and over burden their female members. They like alpha women, who will suppress other women and assist in cover up.


mark_in_TX
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 7:22 pm

I'm a member of that church, and the accusations you guys throw out are absurd. No organization could ever cover up half of what you say. An evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit, and the people that are in that church are the most honest, charitable people on the face of the planet. If you think we're wierd, fine. But bigots, liars, adulterers? We have congregations in almost every country on the planet! Oh, and the people who are bigots, immoral, and such… we excommunicate!! Supression and cover up?? If you don't live the standards, we kick you out.

Get a clue, guys.


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 7:24 pm

Don’t’ care what you think Mark, what you think does not change history.

“I think everything that has been quoted is total crap.” Quoted by mark-in-tx

“Think” in your quote is the key word.

As for the ‘fruits’ of the organization, don’t go there, it will open a Pandora ’s Box.


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 7:29 pm

Who says good 'fruit' has been brought forth. Better get a clue people are catching on.

Because you say you are 'charitable', the 'most honest' does not make it a fact.

In fact saying you are the 'most honest' means you feel others outside your group are not. The church is losing membership daily with people resigning in the united states, and in other industrial nations. Don't you think it is time to be honest?


scottyp
Comment posted September 23, 2009 @ 7:32 pm

“Oh, and the people who are bigots, immoral, and such… we excommunicate!! Supression and cover up?? If you don't live the standards, we kick you out.”

This is not true, some are, but there are many who are not. It depends if the church leadership is protecting them. There is many a brother in the church protected from the many abuses they are involved in.


scottyp
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 7:31 am

Royal Skousen is part of FARMS, they scour the internet for anything negative about the LDS Church and try to counter act it, even if they fib. Many people had Cleon Skousen as a teacher at BYU since he taught at the Campus for many years. Max got exed ,he didn't agree with the church.

So, some taught, some are film makers, and some Skousen's abused their wife and then lied about the wife, some male skousen's abused their children, some Skousen family members mobbed, stole, some lied and cover up. Pretty much sums up some of the Skousen's. Nothing impressive there.


mantis
Comment posted September 24, 2009 @ 8:32 pm

Thanks for again making the claim without giving any substantiation for it.

Follow the link, dumbass.

Again, it was either purposely implied, or done in ignorance with no research behind it.

It wasn't implied at all. You just can't comprehend what you read.


ernie1241
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 3:20 am

FBI FILE ON W. CLEON SKOUSEN:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/skousen


scottyp
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 6:38 am

For being the ‘most honest’ of people as Merrill claimed, a religious peer of Skousen’s had the same problem of over blowing his background. No, huge shock, on Skousen’s blow heart claims; it appears to be part of their heritage and culture.

“ON 16 FEBRUARY 1991, THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC
reported that many of Elder Paul H. Dunn’s baseball and war
stories had serious factual problems. The highlights of the
report were that Harold Brown did not die in Dunn’s arms as
Dunn had repeatedly told audiences, but is still living in
Odessa, Missouri; and that Dunn never played for the St. Louis
Cardinals.”

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/083-28-34.pdf

They abuse too much, and leave too many devastated lives, from their lies and abuse.


scottyp
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 6:41 am

Thanks, Most natural born Skousens I have met don't tell the truth, and over blow what they do, they have justified stealing from other people and harming, just the experience with them and it is documented.


ernie1241
Comment posted September 25, 2009 @ 2:36 pm

MARK:

I suggest that you read my report on Skousen which is based, primarily, upon his FBI file.

I devote a considerable portion of the report to discussion of an article he wrote entitled “Home Grown Subversion” which was filled with falsehoods and which relied upon anti-semitic sources.

I also analyzed Skousen's 1963 pamphlet entitled “The Communist Attack on the John Birch Society” — which reveals how utterly absurd Skousen's conclusions were and how shallow his understanding of the subject was.

In addition, I quote extensively from FBI internal memos which reveal that Skousen mis-represented his FBI career.

If, AFTER reading my report, you STILL think Skousen was a “credible” source, please post another message here and tell us why you think so.

http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/skousen


scottyp
Comment posted September 27, 2009 @ 8:07 am

Merrill, it was a call from President Carter to the head of the LDS Church, saying if policy on blacks did not change, the church would lose its tax exempt status. Maybe that is why Romney doesn't like Carter.

Merrill here is another one, this is what Cleon had to say:

“[Professional] Communist-oriented revolutionary groups have been spearheading the wave of protests and violence directed toward Brigham Young University and the Mormon Church,” [employing] “Marxism and Maoism as their ideological base and terror tactics as their method . . .”

Skousen warned that Communists were plotting to manipulate press reports into depicting the Mormon Church as being “rich, priest-ridden, racist, super-authoritarian and conservative to the point of being archaically reactionary.”

He claimed that, in fact, the Mormon Church was one of the Communists’ “prime TARGETS FOR ATTACK” because it is “STRONGLY PRO-AMERICAN” and that the ‘Negro-priesthood issue” was being used as a “SMOKESREEN” to “further their ulterior motives.”

Citing Ezra Taft Benson’s speech, “Civil Rights: Tool of Communist Deception,” he warned that Communist-inspired assaults on the Mormon Church were designed to:

” . . . create resentment and hatred between the races by distorting the religious tenet of the Church regarding the Negro and blowing it up to ridiculous proportions.”

(“Special Report by National Research Group,” American Fork, Utah, 84003, March 1970, p. 1

Sure the LDS Church was being targeted by the Communist,because they were jealous of the United Order, the church knows will be reinstated one day. Isn't it strange in the sixties the Church was defending its self from claims it had communist leaning because of the United Order which the church practiced, They discontinued the United Order because all the honest Mormon Bishops were keeping everything and sharing only the best with family and friends.


ernie1241
Comment posted September 28, 2009 @ 9:01 pm

Update to my previous message:

I have been getting a lot of flack from Skousen admirers who claim that I probably am intellectually dishonest — or that I am inventing the statements which I attribute to senior FBI officials as revealed in FBI memos.

So, this afternoon, I revised sections of my Skousen report to include actual scanned copies of several relevant FBI memos pertaining to Skousen.

I copied the memos which:

(1) establish that he was NOT considered an authority on communism while he worked at the FBI

(2) prove that he was NOT “a top aide to J. Edgar Hoover” and

(3) establish that the FBI dismissed several of Skousen's assertions in his 3/71 article entitled Home Grown Subversion — and those assertions are also made in Skousen's book, The Naked Capitalist.

You may see these scanned documents here:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/documents

OR

within the text of my Skousen report here:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/skousen

This should prove, once and for all, that my critics are attempting to libel me because of their own ignorance about this matter.


scottyp
Comment posted September 29, 2009 @ 4:24 am

I tried to prepare you Ernie. The Skousens and fineds will attack. They have been spoon feeding themselves lies for decades, and some have been prancing around all puffed up, some abusing people.

Keep stating the facts, they cannot stand it and they cannot admit the truth which is many of those natural born Skousen's lie.


scottyp
Comment posted September 29, 2009 @ 3:04 pm

IT is a big YES to immoral bigots some of the LDSer are, when kids are leaned on, and silenced by threats and influenced, and the legal system is used to cover up and batter innocent people, including children. It is one of the hugest YES one could ever be. It is a huge YES to corrupt also. As in corrupting influence. Cleons lie is only a beginning to the Skousen lies.


Misty18
Comment posted October 16, 2009 @ 3:52 pm

Skousen Influence

As people may already know, Cleon Skousen is Beck's inspiration. One of his nephews, Joel Skousen is an author who writes survivalist books.He has a website http://www.joelskousen.com.

If you go to http://www.joelskousen.com/Philosophy/philosophy.html
you can read excepts of his new book called Foundations of the Ideal State.
Chapter 6 entitled New Constitutional Proposal is disturbing to say the least. This is important, because it echos Beck's rant regarding who should be counted as citizens.

Happy reading :)


Greg
Comment posted January 19, 2010 @ 12:11 pm

Here is additional information about Cleon Skousen.


Greg
Comment posted January 19, 2010 @ 5:11 pm

Here is additional information about Cleon Skousen.


Cleon tuner | FireWaveDesign
Pingback posted March 8, 2011 @ 9:07 am

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