Far-Right Site Gains Influence in Obama Era

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Friday, September 04, 2009 at 6:00 am
An April 12 WorldNetDaily headline and Glenn Beck (YouTube screengrab)

An April 12 WorldNetDaily headline; Glenn Beck on Fox News (YouTube)

On April 12, the conservative Website WorldNetDaily published an expose on newly appointed White House “green czar” Van Jones that labeled the environmental activists a “an admitted radical communist and black nationalist leader.”

Image by: Matt Mahurin

Image by: Matt Mahurin

Based on readily available online sources, including an alternative weekly paper in Oakland, California, Aaron Klein’s piece had a sensational title–”Will a ‘red’ help blacks go green?”–and a sensational spin. In the 2005 profile of Jones that Klein cited, reporter Eliza Strickland recalled Jones’s first year out of Yale Law School, working for the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights in the Bay Area, and how when he was “observing the first large rally since the lifting of the city’s state of emergency, he got swept up in mass arrests,” then came to sympathize with the black radicals and communists who’d been arrested with him, before leaving them behind to become an environmental activist. In Klein’s hands, the story took on a different, more sinister tone: “Jones said he first became radicalized in the wake of the 1992 Rodney King riots, during which time he was arrested.”

Klein’s story made some small waves online, but it wasn’t picked up by the mainstream media until July 23. That was when Glenn Beck first told his Fox News audience about Jones. “This is a guy who is a self-avowed communist,” said Beck, “and he is in the Obama administration … this guy wasn’t a radical, and then was arrested. He spent six months in jail, came out a communist.”

Beck took a shot at the “avowed communist” Jones again on July 28, again on Aug. 4, again on Aug. 11 (“this is a convicted felon, a guy who spent, I think, six months in prison after the Rodney King beating”), again on Aug. 13, and again on Aug. 21. During that period, a civil rights group called Color of Change launched a campaign to get advertisers to drop Beck. The host responded on August 25 with a week-long special series, “The New Republic: America’s Future,” in which Jones became exhibit A of the “radical leftists currently advising the president of the United States.” Back at WorldNetDaily, Klein wrote matter-of-factly that “Beck’s segments about Jones were based in part on WND’s reporting that Jones was as an admitted radical communist and black nationalist leader.”

The growing campaign against Jones — to date, Beck has warned his viewers about him on 14 episodes of his Fox News show — is a powerful example of the influence of a Website that’s very infrequently cited by name, even on the right. (Neither Klein nor Beck’s staff responded to TWI’s questions about the Jones stories.) But where other, more mainstream conservative sites cover partisan political battles and run dry op-eds by think tank experts, WND is all muckraking and rumor-chasing, all the time.

The 12-year-old Website, with 17 full-time editorial staffers, has a White House correspondent, Les Kinsolving, who is most often used by White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs as a punchline. One staff reporter, Jerome Corsi, co-wrote the bestselling Swift Boat Veterans for Truth book “Unfit for Command,” but has been derided by other conservatives for what Politico called “outrageous assertions and fringe theories” about a plan to merge the United States with Mexico and Canada and a shadowy relationship between President Barack Obama and Kenyan Prime Minister Rail Odinga. And the site has relentlessly covered the conspiracy theories about Obama’s citizenship, with hundreds of articles, several petitions, a billboard campaign, and a $17.99 in-house documentary on the issue.

Rush Limbaugh (left) celebrates the release of his book "See, I Told You So," with collaborator Joseph Farah (right). (WNDBooks)

Rush Limbaugh (left) celebrates the release of his book "See, I Told You So," with collaborator Joseph Farah (right). (WNDBooks)

But WorldNetDaily’s Web traffic, revenue, and influence are impressive. It frequently leads the pack in conservative online media. According to James R. Whelan, the Florida-based marketer who runs WorldNetDaily’s ad operations, the site has already surpassed $1 million in ad revenue for 2009. It has a mailing list of more than 355,000 e-mail addresses, which has been built up through tools like daily polls on the site, and has been rented (through third-party vendors) by the Republican National Committee.

“I don’t listen to what idiots like Katie Couric say, about how this is a bad economy and how you can’t do business right now,” said Whelan. “We’re having a great year. We have a great, loyal audience, made up of politically active people who are more or less after the truth.”

The driving force beyond the site’s financial success is its traffic. Whelan tells potential advertisers that the site reaches “6 million unique viewers every month.” That number is difficult to confirm with public information, but it’s not far off. According to siteanalytics.compete.com, WorldNetDaily had more than 1.9 million visitors in July, the month when the “birther” story peaked. That was the slowest month for the site in more than a year. In June, a more average month, it drew in more than 3.9 million visitors. For comparison, that month Free Republic had around 3.2 million visitors, The Washington Times had roughly 2.9 million, Townhall.com had 2.5 million, HotAir.com had 2.4 million, National Review had roughly 2.2 million, Human Events had 1.4 million, LewRockwell.com had 1.1 million, CNSNews.com had around 532,000, and The American Spectator had around 358,000. Among conservative news sites, only Fox News, with roughly 50 million monthly visitors, and Newsmax, with around 6.2 million in June, regularly beats out WND. It’s tougher sledding for Websites that attempt to carve out a more refined audience of conservatives: in June, David Frum’s New Majority had only 42,000 visitors. (According to Google Analytics, it fared quite a bit better at 72,000 unique visitors.) WND, unlike New Majority, has a permanent link at the Drudge Report; according to Alexa.com, Drudge accounts for 13 percent of WND’s traffic.

“The problem is that the mainstream conservative world is not impermeable to this stuff,” Frum told TWI. He cited a persistent rumor that President Obama’s administration was setting up special camps to imprison its political foes. “The idea that the administration is setting up concentration camps has actually bled through to Fox News.”

This week, the libertarian conservative blogger Jon Henke, a consultant who worked for Sen. George Allen (R-Va.) in 2006, challenged fellow conservatives not to buy ads or otherwise do business with the site. “No respectable organization,” wrote Henke, “should support the kind of fringe idiocy that WND peddles.” That inspired Joseph Farah, the founder and editor of the site, to attack Henke. And it didn’t inspire much fear in Whalen. “The heck with that guy,” Whalen told TWI.

“On the Internet, the right is still divided into Web 1.0 and Web 2.0,” Henke told TWI. “There are news sites that arose in the 1990s and became popular with cultural conservatives, but never moved beyond. WorldNetDaily is one of those. And there needs to be a bright line in between the type of people or rhetoric or movements that traffic in conspiracy theories and the decent right.”

While some Washington conservative distance themselves from WorldNetDaily (“I don’t know anyone who reads it,” said Henke), its associations with the rest of the movement run deep. Farah founded the site after a stint as a “newspaper doctor” led to hiring Rush Limbaugh as a columnist for the Sacramento Union, and after that led to a job co-writing Limbaugh’s book “See, I Told You So.”

“Rush Limbaugh is generous, funny, encouraging, kind, and insightful,” Farah wrote in his 2007 memoir “Stop the Presses!: The Inside Story of the New Media Revolution.” “[W]orking closely with Rush Limbaugh on his bestselling book was a treat for me and a memory I will always cherish.”

Farah founded WorldNetDaily two years after that, and has seldom had trouble bringing prominent conservatives into his orbit. In “Stop the Presses!” Farah recalled how Bill O’Reilly came to him in 2000 to launch an opinion column anchored at the site. “I want my show to be the number one cable show,” said O’Reilly, according to Farah. “I want to write a bestselling book. And I want to launch a nationally-syndicated newspaper column.” That year, political pollster Scott Rasmussen wrote a column for the site, too. In 2002, WorldNetDaily launched a publishing arm, WNDBooks, that would release political tracts and memoirs by Tom Tancredo, NRA Vice President Wayne LaPierre, and most impactfully, radio host Michael Savage. His first WNDBooks release, a collection of WND columns titled The Savage Nation, became their first New York Times #1 bestseller. Savage’s relationship with WND continues to provide them traffic — 6 percent of their readers arrive from his Website, according to Alexa.com — and his success would be matched in 2008 with the release of Corsi’s The Obama Nation.

“I don’t think life is long enough to go around debunking the various ideas that have occurred to Jerome Corsi,” Frum told TWI.

Corsi’s reporting is responsible for much of WND’s current notoriety. But the Van Jones model — relentlessly covering Obama appointees until the rest of the media notices–has gotten the best recent results. WND cited a 1977 book co-written by White House science czar John Holdren to report that he “called for forced abortions.” The site has run multiple articles about Cass Sunstein, the president’s nominee to run the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, alleging that he wanted to censor the Internet and that he favored “gun grabs” and “animal rights.” Not only have those allegations made it into the wider conservative media, they’ve fueled Republican holds on Sunstein’s nomination. WND’s coverage of the Obama birth certificate conspiracy, often written by Corsi, has been packaged as an ongoing, dogged investigation. Last month the site published an image of a forged “Kenyan birth certificate” appended with a column by Farah dealing with their editorial decision. “No one here has made a judgment that it is real,” Farah wrote. “What we did was report a fact – that California attorney Orly Taitz has filed a motion in federal court to determine its authenticity.”

Asked by TWI about WND’s critics, and whether his reports could reach as wide an audience at WND as they could reach on the TV shows that have cooled to inviting him on, Corsi told TWI that the question answered itself.

“If you didn’t consider WND effective,” said Corsi, “you wouldn’t be writing about us.”

You can follow TWI on Twitter and Facebook.

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Comments

253 Comments

Far-Right Site Gains Influence in Obama Era – The Washington Independent.com | My Host Today
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The Washington Independent Rightbloggers 1, Van Jones 0 – CelebrityTwitterGossip.com
Pingback posted September 4, 2009 @ 11:47 am

[...] story about WorldNetDaily today makes the case that a “fringe” website can actually have an impact on the mainstream [...]


Lurker
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 11:35 am

You think the Van Jones reporting is a smear? All the facts coming out and Van Jones constantly issueing apologies and you call it a smear?

What planet are you from?

Why don't you do some reporting about far left sites like HuffPo and DailyKos that the MSM constantly uses…

Far left sites didn't gain influence in Bush era? lol


We Got Truthers In High Places, Where The Whiskey Drowns And The Beer Chases « Around The Sphere
Pingback posted September 4, 2009 @ 1:30 pm

[...] green jobs czar, who has been unfairly attacked by the fringe right for awhile now (that Weigel WND piece linked below provides a good introduction), signed a 2004 petition calling for an “immediate [...]


Who Is Van Jones? [Biography] | Newstion.com
Pingback posted September 4, 2009 @ 2:07 pm

[...] WND discovered Jones in April. They took publicly available information about Jones’ civil rights past, his arrest at a Rodney King protest (he was not charged with anything because it was one of those illegal but common mass arrests) and his own statements about his youthful radicalism and made a scary, scary story called “Will a ‘red’ help blacks go green?” Wow, right? And, yes, these were not secrets—remember the Friedman and New Yorker profiles? [...]


prsmith
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 1:49 pm

Thanks, you convinced me that I need to step up and financially support WND. Clearly they are having an effective impact against the smothering blanket of left-wing propaganda.


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 2:23 pm

Yes, they are a voice in opposition, but why support a disingenuous publication that peddles out-right lies and conspiracy theories? There are plenty of excellent, conservative journalists out there that don't receive the amount of attention that Farah and Corsi get because they refuse to play off of the irrational fears of their base. Support an dissidence, but find credible dissidents to support. That is, unless you want our party driven by a idiotic base.


prsmith
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 3:10 pm

Heck, I don't know, Kirkles, why are millions of people visiting WND every day and over 350,000 are on the mailing list? You reckon maybe it's because we find something there we're not finding elsewhere? You reckon maybe those conspiracy theories are raising some serious questions that need some answers? You reckon many it's because Barry's actions are contrary to what they people thought they were voting for and are frightening people? You reckon maybe that the country is on the brink of total economic collapse and we see the government pushing us in the wrong direction? You reckon maybe it's because we see Barry surrounding himself with communists, fascists and outright kooks and we can't help but wonder where he is leading us?

Are you honestly not concerned about the path we're on — or is this your preferred path? Do you want to see the dollar destroyed along with the economy so you can build your utopian, socialist eden from the ashes of anarchy? Are you un-American or worse Anti-American? Do you secretly want the Constitution shredded and replaced with a manifesto? Do you want to destroy our two party system in favor of an oligarchy of the left?

WND, Beck, O'Reilly, etc. are providing a beacon in an engulfing sea of socialist darkness and increasing numbers of Americans are responding — Thank God!


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 3:14 pm

Obama's entire political history is full of relationships with seedy people. He promised openness, but hasn't produced. The questions won’t go away until obama releases his hidden records. All he has to do is make the following official public statement,

“I Barack Obama authorize the State of Hawaii to release and make public all of my records on file.”

That's it. Issue over. But he won't because he's a fraud!! Obama knows that millions of citizens want to see it yet he continues to hide it. What and why is he hiding?

And maybe more disturbing is why don't BHO's supporters want to know the whole truth, especially since there's a reward that continues to be increased (currently $25 million) for proof that Obama is a “natural born” citizen of the United States? The answer is that Obama’s very own supporters also know he’s a fraud but choose to overlook it for political agenda reasons!

Link to current lawsuit. . .(very thorough).

http://69.66.218.3/public/patriotsHeartVsObama/…

OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US YOUR LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND OTHER RECORDS!!!!!


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 3:22 pm

Van Jones says he didn't know what to 9-11 truthers stood for, and that he didn't get involved until 2004. He's a liar (like his boss).

This link proves he got involved in 2002.

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/09/van-j…

Plus he's on record as siding with the terrorists and blamed America the day after the attack on the towers!

Van Jones is an eco-terrorist. Get him out!


Tweets that mention The Washington Independent » Far-Right Site Gains Influence in Obama Era -- Topsy.com
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[...] this page was mentioned by PBCliberal (@pbcliberal), Thomas Richmond (@thomasrichmond), Samuel Rubenfeld (@srubenfeld), Garrett M. Quinn, Jr (@garrettquinn), Jon Henke (@jonhenke) and others. [...]


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 5:14 pm

Re :”since there's a reward that continues to be increased (currently $25 million).”

No one believes that birthers would pay $25 much less $25 million. No one believes birthers.

Obama has posted and shown to both Polifact and Factcheck the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the facts on that document, that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961, were twice confirmed by the autorities in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of Obama's birth in 1961. (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html).

As the Wall Street Journal commented in July: “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 5:22 pm

Your comments clearly show that you are hardly worth reasoning with. Whenever you pull “anti-American” into the mix, it betrays you as a gun waving ape that has no concern for serious dialogue and essentially no grasp of the issues. I would respond to your concerns, if I could, but frankly, you offer little more than rhetorical flourish and vague innuendo. So, what the hell, exactly, are you talking about? I hear “fascist and communist” but I don't hear names. I hear that Obama is “destroying the dollar and pushing us to economic collapse”, but I don't really see how is economic policies are worse (or even terribly different, for that matter) than Bush's. I fail to see our country descending into anarchy. I don't see the constitution being re-written or ignored (well, I do, but I don't see how the Obama administration is doing it any worse than Bush or Clinton or Bush Sr. or Reagan). I hear “America's collapsing is impending” but I don't hear how or why.

What you're peddling here is exactly the sort of thing, and probably a product of, what WND, Beck (who is probably retarded) and O'Reilly spew on a daily basis. Vague prophecies of doom do little in the public realm and distract conservatives really addressing issues in a meaningful sense. That's why these people are problems. They get off on grandstanding about how terrible Obama's (healthcare, economic, security, etc) policies are and how they're destroying America without actually saying WHY they are bad. And then they get people like you yelling and screaming, and all you end up doing is opposing policies instead of proposing meaningful alternatives. It's basically a popular form of sophism. If you think that true-blooded American dialogue is shouting down a representative a town hall, then God help the USA.

Now, I realize that you're going to pull the “you're blind, you socialist” card on me, and that would serve little more than to prove me right. If you actually have reason for believing what you believe, spell it out for me. Frankly, I don't think you know jack.


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 5:30 pm

What, exactly, would a long form birth certificate prove that the certificate of live birth, the birth announcements, his accounts, the account of the governor of Hawaii and his mother's account already hasn't? If the overwhelming stand of evidence to his being born in Hawaii doesn't convince you, why would a long form certificate? Won't you just ask yourself “why did it take him so long to release this?” and then conclude “it must be fake”? I mean, seriously.

You beleive whole heartedly that he was born in Mombassa based on an anecdotal statement from his grandmother, yet insist that the numerous official and print statements to his being born in Hawaii prove nothing. Your position is beyond illogical.


conservative chick
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 5:36 pm

Look, even liberal columnists jumped on the bandwagon and said, the president is accountable to us, the citizens of this country, and he needs to produce these records, not just his birth certificate, but his school records, etc. Nobody took the idea that he wasn't a citizen seriously…until he started paying lawers and sealing records. But when someone goes to these lengths to conceal things, it sure makes you think he must be hiding something! This isn't even an “is he or isn't he” issue anymore, it's an accountability and transparency issue. I don't want any president acting like this is a third world country or that he is above the law and the constitution.


strangely_enough
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 5:39 pm

“[P]eople who are more or less after the truth.”

Ah, understatement at it's finest.


strangely_enough
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 5:41 pm

“I don't want any president acting like this is a third world country or that he is above the law and the constitution.”

Umm, where have you been the last eight years?


Mack
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 5:45 pm

How is the truth a “smear”? If it is so terrible, Jones should not have done or said the things he did. He is a racist, a radical and yes, in his own words, a Communist. But, like Rev. Wright, Obama's grandmother and Bill Ayers, he will soon find himself under the bus.


The Washington Independent » Far-Right Site Gains Influence in … | Kenya today
Pingback posted September 4, 2009 @ 6:48 pm

[...] Read more here: The Washington Independent » Far-Right Site Gains Influence in … [...]


RodS
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 5:50 pm

Thank you Kirkles!


Adam
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 6:05 pm

Obama and his cronies are no 'communists'. Rather, they're big business and union-conected slimeballs, of the Richard M[obster] Daley variety. (Dubya and Cheney are not fascists, either, just another clique of corporate sleaze.)

Obama's people DO pander to the idiots on the 'red' sector, with their health reform talk, but are actually slopping out porkbarrels for their donors: IT companies, pharmaceutical companies, medical-financial companies. The 'public option' just pulls bad actuarial risks from the HMOs pools. Obama will NEVER socialize medicine (i.e., like the long-forgotten Dellums bill). Just like the GOPers, who talk 'Christiandom', but defend bank usury (once considered a sin) and armed the Mujaheddin-cum-Taliban and viciously anti-Christian Sodomy Arserapia (oil companies give lots of dough to Republican PACs).


Adam
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 6:13 pm

The One is also not releasing his Senatorial records, so nobody knows which Daley-conected wiseguys/lobbyists he met with. The Chicago Democratic Machine is so oily that people should demand answers. Obama is probably making sure that there won't be a RICO investigation against Da Boss (Daley Sr was investigated by the FBI).

Maybe B.O. WAS born in Hawai'i, but the rest of his autobio is B.S.–that's why he won't divulge ANYTHING. Oprah recommended B.O.'s books, but many of the autobiographies on her show turned out to be fictions…


Adam
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 6:23 pm

This was NOT a first-hand account of a birth. Not like another mother giving birth in the same ward, or a nurse, &c. This is, for all practical purposes, heresey.

The fact remains that the burden of proof is on OBAMA to authorize the release of his records.


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 6:41 pm

Looks like the Craigslist professional obamites are on the job today.

Krinkles. . .what would it prove? How about, it would prove the name of the doctor, hospital and witnesses. So far the only witness is his Grandmother in Kenya.

I'm illogical? haha I guarantee, I'm smarter and more successful than you are. You're out of your league.

Link to current lawsuit. . .must read!!!!!!!

http://69.66.218.3/public/patriotsHeartVsObama/…

OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US YOUR LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND OTHER RECORDS!!!!!

.


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

You're quite right CC! Only someone willing to condone corruption could possible disagree with your point.

Link to current lawsuit. . .(very thorough).

http://69.66.218.3/public/patriotsHeartVsObama/…

OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US YOUR LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND OTHER RECORDS!!!!!


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 6:49 pm

As the Wall Street Journal commented in July: “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”


David Weigel
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 6:50 pm

The sub-headline originally said “attacks,” and we've changed it back to that.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:09 pm

Okay. She was not a nurse or a doctor. So it had to be heresay.

But still, she REMEMBERS being told. She remembers because her father was
named Stanley and she wrote him that she was told that on about the day she
wrote a woman in Hawaii named Stanley gave birth to a child.

This is in addition to the official birth certificate, the confirmation of
the facts on the official birth certificate by the two officials, the fact
that in 1961 a foreign birth certificate could not be filed in Hawaii, the
notices in the newspapers (which were sent out by the government and were
not ads, and were sent out only for births IN Hawaii and not for births
outside of Hawaii).

And there is the absence of documentary evidence that Obama's mother was
ever in Kenya (That would be a Kenyan record), or that she gave birth in
Kenya (another Kenyan record). Birthers say that the absence of these records
is because Kenya is part of a conspiracy. (In fact the government of Kenya
is split between two parties, one which likes Obama, one which hates Obama,
so if there were a record, the anti side would have leaked it.) Finally
there is the absence of necessary US documents. You see, if a child is born in
Kenya he or she would need a US visa to get to the USA, or a US passport
issued in Kenya, or a change to his mother's passport to include him. Any
one of those would require a US document the records of which would be on
file, and which would have been found by now by the State Department or the
CIA or the McCain campaign.

So, an official state record, confirmed by the authorities, confirmed again
by the witness who recalls the birth. No documents from Kenya. No
documents from the USA showing Obama traveling from Kenya to the USA. Also, for the
mother to have traveled in Kenya while pregnant was very unlikely in those
days, when stillbirths were much more frequent than now. In 1961, you had
to get a Yellow Fever shot to go to Kenya, and that is very very bad for
pregnant women and the child.

The grandmother did not say he was born in Kenya. If you listen to the
complete tape, you will see that she said that he was born in “America,
Hawaii.”

To repeat the Wall Street Journal “Obama has already provided a legal birth
certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced
any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is
unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was
born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope,
Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:16 pm

What about Mrs. Durham. She certainly bore witness to Obama's birth, did she not? And what did she maintained throughout Obama's life? That he was born in Hawaii. What possible motive would she have for lying since Obama was a little boy? And then, why would anyone lie to newspapers about their son being born in a place that he was not born in? Was she involved in some conspiracy to make him President that was conceived at the same time that he was? Could it be the Obama is the Manchurian candidate?

And then, why Mombasa? In 1961, Nairobi had the only international airport in the country. Nairobi is several hundred miles away for Mombasa. From all accounts, Barack Sr. had no familial connections in Mombasa; he was born on the other side of the country. Why on earth would he have flown his very pregnant wife to the opposite side of the planet, and then driven her several hundred miles to a city where he had no business, so that she could give birth? Why? It makes no sense.

But you still failed to answer my question. If, tomorrow, Obama were to produce a long form certificate, would you believe in its authenticity? I highly doubt it.

And nice work with the self-aggrandizement. Your stunning use of capitalization proves that I am clearly out of my league.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:19 pm

Obama has shown the ONLY birth certificate that Hawaii sends out. It is also the official birth certificate of Hawaii. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualin…)

That being the case, unless Obama has a copy of his original birth certificate, the only document that he can show is the one that Hawaii sent him, which is the Certification of Live Birth.
http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualin…

There is nothing wrong with the Certification, however. Although it is a short-form birth certificate, it is accepted by all the departments in Hawaii (yes, including DHHL) as proof of birth in Hawaii, and it is accepted by the US State Department as proof of birth in the USA.

There is even a witness who recalls being told of the birth in 1961, and this confirms the official document and the statements by the two officials.This is heresay evidence, of course, since she was not in the hospital. Still, she REMEMBERS being told. She remembers very clearly. She remembers because her father was named Stanley and she wrote him that she was told that on about the day she wrote a woman in Hawaii named Stanley gave birth to a child.

This is in addition to the official birth certificate, the confirmation of the facts on the official birth certificate by the two officials, the fact that in 1961 a foreign birth certificate could not be filed in Hawaii, the notices in the newspapers (which were sent out by the government and were not ads, and were sent out only for births IN Hawaii and not for births outside of Hawaii).

And there is the absence of documentary evidence that Obama's mother was ever in Kenya (That would be a Kenyan record), or that she gave birth in Kenya (another Kenyan record). Birthers say that the absence of these records is because Kenya is part of a conspiracy. (In fact the government of Kenya is split between two parties, one which likes Obama, one which hates Obama, so if there were a record, the anti side would have leaked it.) Finally there is the absence of necessary US documents. You see, if a child is born in Kenya he or she would need a US visa to get to the USA, or a US passport issued in Kenya, or a change to his mother's passport to include him. Any one of those would require a US document the records of which would be on file, and which would have been found by now by the State Department or the CIA or the McCain campaign.

So, an official state record, confirmed by the authorities, confirmed again by the witness who recalls the birth. No documents from Kenya. No documents from the USA showing Obama traveling from Kenya to the USA. Also, for the mother to have traveled in Kenya while pregnant was very unlikely in those days, when stillbirths were much more frequent than now. In 1961, you had to get a Yellow Fever shot to go to Kenya, and that is very very bad for pregnant women and the child.

The grandmother did not say he was born in Kenya. If you listen to the complete tape, you will see that she said that he was born in “America, Hawaii.”

To repeat the Wall Street Journal “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:24 pm

Re: ” based on an anecdotal statement from his grandmother…”

Actually, even she did not say this. This ALSO is made up. Obama's Kenyan grandmother said that Obama was born in Hawaii. This can be heard clearly if you listen to the complete tape. She says “America, Hawaii” after being asked “whereabouts was he born?” Here is the complete tape recording of the grandmother interview on Berg's site: “http://obamacrimes.com/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3″


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:29 pm

Actually, the grandmother in Kenya was NOT a witness. She never said that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii.

The story that she said that she was present when he was born in Kenya is ALSO made up. Obama's Kenyan grandmother said that Obama was born in Hawaii. This can be heard clearly if you listen to the complete tape. She says “America, Hawaii” after being asked “whereabouts was he born?” Here is the complete tape recording of the grandmother interview on Berg's site: “http://obamacrimes.com/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploa…)

If it is too difficult to listen to the tape, here is a transcript of the recording: (


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:31 pm

Strauss, we all know what a bastion of liberal thought the WSJ is! No one worth their salt treats that publication with anything but contempt! In order to continue beleiving the birther conspiracy, I'm going to have to stick my fingers in my ears and shout “la-la-la.” Good day!


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:31 pm

Legally, witnesses cannot have a vested interest. Stanley certainly did. Real witnesses are independent.

Her motive to lie? Duh. She wanted her son to have US citizenship, her parents lived in Hawaii, and Hawaii issued birth certificates to children not born in Hawaii.

I can't comment on the veracity of a document I haven't seen. That would be illogical.

Don't like caps huh? How about this? OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US YOUR LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND OTHER RECORDS!!!!!

Link to current lawsuit. . .(must read. . .very interesting).

http://69.66.218.3/public/patriotsHeartVsObama/…

.


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:35 pm

Not true. The grandmother said she was at the birth in Kenya. Her statement and translation can be read at the following link.

http://69.66.218.3/public/patriotsHeartVsObama/…

.


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:39 pm

Obama would have been a citizen, whether he was born in Hawaii or born in Kenya. Citizenship by blood extends to children born to one US citizen (Obama's mother, in the case in question). He would simply have had dual citizenship with the US and Kenya.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:41 pm

The WSJ is a bastion of liberal thought? Totally absurd. It is, and always
has been, a conservative-leaning publication, and its editorial page has
always been conservative. It has always supported conservative candidates. It
was very strong for Reagan and has always supported cutting taxes and
increasing military strength, and it supported the Iraq war and the New
Conservatives. It supported McCain in the election. But, then, McCain himself has
no question that Obama was born in Hawaii. The McCain campaign checked on
all the allegations during the election, and it concluded that there was no
evidence whatsoever.


jackwachs
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:42 pm

Aaron Klein is a hero journalist. He is not smearing anyone, but reporting factually that Jones is a confessed radical communist.


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:43 pm

Not true. You don't know what you're talking about. Given the law at the time, his mother wasn't old enough to confer citizenship. You can read about those laws in the link I've been posting to the lawsuit.

And regardless, he was never a natural-born citizen.


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:48 pm

I was being sarcastic. I thought the “la la la” part would give me away.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:48 pm

Oops. The URL of the transcript did not come out. Here it is: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploa…


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:53 pm

Sorry. Never got to the la la la.
We agree then.


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 7:56 pm

There would certainly have been legal wiggleroom. Besides, as a citizen's dependent, he still would have been entitled to the rights of an American and would have been naturalized upon his 18th birthday. He wouldn't have wanted for any opportunity and there would have been no real compelling reason for his mother to lie in order to get him his citizenship. Besides, it would have required some exceptional skills in forgery to convince Hawaii that he was born in the US.

Plus, the question as to why the family would have gone to Mombasa remains.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:01 pm

She did not say that he was born in Kenya. There are no words saying “he was born.” Or “I was there,” or anything like that.

However, when she was asked: “Whereabouts was he born?” she answered “America, Hawaii.” So, she said very clearly that he was born in Hawaii.

The complete transcript of the tape recording is here: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploa…

That confirms the official documents in Hawaii that Obama was born in Hawaii, the confirmation by the two officials who looked into the file, and the witness who remembers being told of the birth in Hawaii (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:12 pm

No president has ever shown his birth certificate before this election. McCain did not post his birth certificate (the one that is circulating on the Web is a forgery that says he was born at Colon Hospital, when he says he was born at the Naval Base Family Hospital at the Coco Solo Naval Base.)

Obama posted and showed to both Polifact and Factcheck the official birth certificate of Hawaii, the facts of which have now been confirmed twice by officials in Hawaii.

Hawaii does not send out the long-form birth certificate anymore, so unless Obama has a copy saved from the time of birth, he cannot show it. He can only show what Hawaii sent him, which was the short-form Certification of Live Birth. But that is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii.


Irish_Wake
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:17 pm

I read these comments begin at demonstrably incorrect and withdraw to magical thinking. Logic and reason seem to have as little effect on this thread as legal precedent, our Constitution, and fact.

From William F. Buckley '… after a right-winger who fancied himself a WFB protégé had said something transcendently and provocatively cretinous, “You know, I’ve spent my entire life time separating the Right from the kooks.”'


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:24 pm

You're wrong on every point. Repeating the same falsehoods does not make them right.

McCain's citizenship was questioned. The Senate did a full investigation and (wrongly) concluded that he was/is a natural-born citizen.

It's ot true that a full B/C cannot be obtained from Hawaii, but even if it were true, on page 26 of Obummer's book, Dreams from My Father, (Three Rivers Press; New York, NY; 1995, 2004), he writes,

“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school.”

Let's see that birth certificate!


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:33 pm

You're right he would have been naturalized, and therefore ineligible. The Constitution requires POTUS to be “natural-born.” Huge difference!

As far as “exceptional skill,” none was required. At the time, all they required was a person stating that they had a baby. NO proof was required. The baby was not even required to be born in Hawaii, because many exceptions were allowed (eg adoption).

That's why the long form B/C is the only form that means a thing.


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:37 pm

And that's exactly the point. The only reason Obama's mother would have had for lying about where he was born was so that he could be President someday. Do you actually think that she is a part of some 48 year old conspiracy?


captainsteve
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:42 pm

Of course she would have had no way of knowing, but this is not about her.

The short form COLB proves nothing about his birthplace. He's hiding the long-form. Why

I say, because he has something to hide. He works for us. We have a right to know.


Kirkles
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:46 pm

If less than half of the country is asking (most people beleive that he was born in Hawaii), does he really have any reason to show? It'd be giving credibility to what is franky a fringe conspiracy theory. It makes political sense not for him to cater to you all.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:51 pm

Re: “I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school.”

Does that say that he kept it? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate a book, would you take it (it not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out?

In short, we do not know that Obama has a copy of the original. We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. Regardless of whether you ask for a a copy of the original or just for the birth certificate of Hawaii, Hawaii sends out the Certification.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election No president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 8:57 pm

Re: “At the time, all they required was a person stating that they had a baby.

That is not true. If a child were born outside of a hospital, Hawaii required a sworn statement from the attending doctor or midwife.

Moreover, the recollection of the witness who recalls being told of the birth was that Obama was born at a hospital. (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html).


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:00 pm

Re: “He's hiding the long-form. “

NO he is not. He does not have the long form so he cannot show it. Hawaii sends out only the short-form.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:02 pm

I agree it makes political sense. But there is a simpler explanation. He cannot show the long form because he only has the short form. That is what Hawaii sends out, and that is what it sent to Obama.

And, why didn't the birthers ask to see the birth certificate of McCain?


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:06 pm

Re: “At the time, all they required was a person stating that they had a baby. NO proof was required.”

Not true. If a child were born outside of a hospital, Hawaii required a statement by the midwife or attending doctor.

And besides, the witness says that she remembers being told that he was born in a hospital: (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:10 pm

Not true at all. She never said that she was present. There is no statement “I was there,” or “he was here,” or “I was present.” There is, however, the clear words “America, Hawaii” after the clear question “whereabouts was he born?”

Here is the transcript of that: “http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf”

Thus the grandmother tape cannot be used as evidence (and it would not have been good evidence anyway) of Obama being born in Kenya.


Nameon
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:14 pm

You just like playing the skin flute – like Tuci78. STFU.


Nameon
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:16 pm

Arrrrrr, I be Cap'nSteve, and I be likin' the flute of skin!!!

Ahoy, mate Tuci78.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:17 pm

Re: “I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school.”

Does that say that he kept it? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate in a book, would you take it (It not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out?

In short, we do not know that Obama has a copy of the original. We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. No matter what you ask for, the original or just a birth certificate, Hawaii sends out the Certification. Nothing else.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election No president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:23 pm

Re: “”I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school.”

Does that say that he kept it? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate in a book, would you take it (it not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out? In short, we do not know that Obama has a copy of the original.

We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then, it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. No matter what you ask for, the original or just a birth certificate, Hawaii sends out the Certification. Nothing else.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election No president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:26 pm

Re: “At the time, all they required was a person stating that they had a baby. NO proof was required.”

Not true. When a child was born outside of a hospital, Hawaii required a statement from the attending doctor or midwife.

Besides, the witness who recalls being told of the birth also recalls that he was born at a hospital. (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:32 pm

Re: “I discovered.”

Does that say that he kept it (the birth certificate)? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate in a book, would you take it (it not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out?

In short, we do not know that Obama has a copy of the original. We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then, it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. No matter what you ask for, the original or just a birth certificate, Hawaii sends out the Certification. Nothing else.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election No president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:34 pm

Re: I discovered.

Does that say that he kept the birth certificate and that it was not lost? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate in a book, would you take it (it not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out?

In short, we do not know that Obama has a copy of the original. We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then, it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. No matter what you ask for, the original or just a birth certificate, Hawaii sends out the Certification. Nothing else.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election No president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:38 pm

Re: “At the time, all they required was a person stating that they had a baby. NO proof was required.”

Not true. If a child were born outside of a hospital Hawaii required a statement by the attending doctor or midwife, or if neither were used, some other witness.

However, the witness who recalls being told of the birth at the time also recalls that the birth took place at a hospital. (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html).


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:41 pm

Re: “I discovered” the birth certificate.

Does that say that he kept it? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate in a book, would you take it (it not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out? In short, we do not know that Obama has a copy of the original. We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then, it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. No matter what you ask for, the original or just a birth certificate, Hawaii sends out the Certification. Nothing else.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election No president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


Loren
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:50 pm

“Her motive to lie? Duh. She wanted her son to have US citizenship, her parents lived in Hawaii, and Hawaii issued birth certificates to children not born in Hawaii.”

So if that was her motive, then why would she go to Kenya in the first place?


Loren
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 9:58 pm

“McCain's citizenship was questioned. The Senate did a full investigation and (wrongly) concluded that he was/is a natural-born citizen.”

The Senate did not do an investigation. Senator Patrick Leahy asked a couple of questions of Michael Chertoff during an unrelated committee hearing. Later that month the Senate passed a resolution. A resolution that got roughly as much Senatorial attention as another resolution that was considered and approved at the same time, “commemorating the life and work of Dith Pran” (S.R. 515).

There was no “investigation.” There was no debate. There were no hearings. The Senate invested less time in this issue than they do in naming post offices.


Swami_Binkinanda
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 10:11 pm

Make sure you buy all the colloidal silver, nutritional supplements, Russian bodybuilding supplies, and p3nis enhancement products too. That gay mustache isn't going to groom itself! The magic doesn't work without the colloidal silver, either, just ask the blue people.


Van Jones Truther
Pingback posted September 4, 2009 @ 11:21 pm

[...] gave not so long ago but, in fact, earlier this year to a youth organization about …   Far-Right Site Gains Influence in Obama EraOn April 12, the conservative Website WorldNetDaily published an expose on newly appointed White [...]


Steve X
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 10:27 pm

I'm pretty sure that at this point, the birthers would pay anything if they believed that it would expose the “truth.” After all, if there's one thing we learned about birthers with that Kenyan Birth Certificate fiasco, it's that birthers are by far the stupidest people in America. Those idiots will believe anything as long as it makes them feel better.


JimCap
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 11:18 pm

Wow. A lot of fringe types here. And a lot of unhinged comments. And a lot of lies.

Here are the facts about Van Jones:

1. He is not a communist. (Laughable to think otherwise.)

2. He was never in jail. (This is just slander.)

3. He is pro-capitalist. (His book is all about growing the green economy and advancing America's economic competitiveness.)

But, it is true that Van Jones is liberal and black. And those are two things that conservatives despise. (You should see the comments on several websites calling Jones a “nigger”. It's sick.)

Van Jones is a good man. And all the smears in the world from far-right wackos won't work. He's staying right where he is.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 11:27 pm

I wish I could agree with you. My experience is that only a relative few
birthers are stupid, and I honor them. They should be honored because they
are innocent. Stupid perhaps, but innocent. They say what they believe, and
when the facts are shown that they are wrong, they shut up.

The rest are very smart, and they do not believe what they say. Repeat,
they do NOT believe what they themselves say. They are lying with a motive, a
goal. So they say the same things over and over, even though they do not
believe it.

Their motive is to find another John Wilkes Booth or Lee Harvey Oswald. The
potential for this exists anyway, of course, but these serious birthers
are trying to encourage more potential killers, to raise the potential for
violence. They hope to find someone who is armed and dangerous and who
believes their claims. They are cowards.

I can say that they are not innocent because of the increasing number of
birther sites where arguments that disagree with what is posted simply
disappear. They no longer want to show the evidence that what they say is wrong.
These are birthers who have been doing this for a long time, and they
repeat the same claims all the time, and they repeat them despite having the
facts that they are wrong shown to them. And now they no longer want to see
the facts that destroy their case posted on their blog. Arguments that they
disagree with simply disappear.

A recent example I had was discussing the perennial claim that Obama must
have traveled on a foreign passport to visit Pakistan in 1981 because,
birthers allege, Pakistan would not allow US citizens to visit or Pakistan was
on a “no travel” list by the US State Department. Neither are true, and it
is not a matter or opinion, facts can be cited to show that this is not
true.

So, I responded to this with a citation of a travel article in the New
York Times in 1981 saying that Lahore in Pakistan is a wonderful, scenic place
to visit and a letter to the editor from the US Consul General in Lahore
encouraging people to visit, and the information that Pakistan granted
30-day visas to US citizens on arrival. And, what do you know, the response
simply disappeared. And I posted it again, and it disappeared again.

Same for the claim that Obama was an Indonesian citizen. I replied citing
the US State Department answer in a Freedom of Information Act response that
Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, and the reply disappeared, and I
posted it again, and it disappeared again.

The same is happening increasingly when facts are cited, such as the fact
that Hawaii sends out only the Certification of Live Birth and it is the
official birth certificate of Hawaii.

I can only say that I hope the right-wing realizes how terribly counter
productive it would be for them if what the violent birthers want were to
occur.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 11:32 pm

Re: “I discovered” etc.

Does that say that he kept the birth certificate? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate in a book, would you take it (it not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out?

In short, we do not know that Obama has a copy of the original. We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then, it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. No matter what you ask for, the original or just a birth certificate, Hawaii sends out the Certification. Nothing else.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election no president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 4, 2009 @ 11:35 pm

Does that say that he kept the birth certificate and that it wasn't lost by his family or by him? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate in a book, would you take it (it not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out?

In short, we do not know that Obama still has a copy of the original. We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then, it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. No matter what you ask for, the original or just a birth certificate, Hawaii sends out the Certification. Nothing else.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election no president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


wayoutwest
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 1:00 am

smrstrauss, I came to the same conclusion as you did about their, true motives, long ago. Facts are not relevant to their agenda only attracting true believers.

It's a dangerous situation but not a new one. The net allows them to reach more people than ever and that is a new phenomenon.

You, I, and many others have been countering their rants on these threads for months. For our effort we have been called, Paid Obama-Bloggers and much worse. I wish i was getting paid for dealing with these assholes.

Very few on the Right actually care enough about this country to oppose any of this rhetoric, in fact most support it.

I believe most people are not buying this crap, they were fooled by Cheney-Bush but know, you can't fool all the people all the time. The election of PBHO proved that most Americans are ready for change.

They Lost.
We Won.
Get Used To It!


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 2:25 am

Thanks for the kind words. I get disheartened from time to time.

I wonder if you (and perhaps some others) would like to help with this
site:
_http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/The-Van-Jones-non-feeding-non-frenzy-57271402.html_
(http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs…
zy-57271402.html)

There are an awful lot of rabid, untrue, violent statements on it.


Steve X
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 4:34 am

I think the smart ones are far outweighed by the ignorant masses. The people at the top of the birther conspiracy gain traction with this nonsense because they know that there are hundreds of thousands of otherwise rational people who will believe anything that they are told. Even if people like Limbaugh and his ilk don't really believe in it, there are plenty of folks out there who just KNOW that Obama is involved in a decades-long plot to enslave the white race and force America into Islamofascist socialism.

A recent poll showed that more than just a few Republicans (I forget the exact percentage, but it varies greatly from state to state) truly believe that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, but born in Kenya. Or was it Indonesia? Hell at this point, maybe he wasn't even born at all. The way the birther mind works, all of the evidence that he was born in Hawaii just proves that he really wasn't born in Hawaii. I used to try to reason with these people, but the mind of a conspiracy theorist is hard to turn no matter much evidence is provided. The only difference between birthers and kids that believe in the tooth fairy is that the kids actually have an excuse for not knowing any better. I think that the majority of birthers are willfully ignorant, and I don't feel sorry for them at all. I used to try to convince birthers that they are wrong and irrational, but doing that was like throwing toothpicks at a tank.

I do agree with you on the cowardice issue, though. The big birthers just want to see chaos and division, and they don't care anything about the consequences. They would like nothing more than for some unhinged lunatic to do their dirty work for them. I'm just happy that us rational, reality-based people far outnumber the loons.


SethK
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 4:54 am

In regard to Mr. Weigel's misclassification of LewRockwell.com as a “far Right” website, which would the Washington Independent prefer, that we assume its editors are merely woefully ignorant of the nuances of hard-core libertarianism, or that we assume it is merely doing its best to smear all non-progressive opinion with the same “wacky” brush? Conservatives, at least not in their current Neo-con incarnation, do not support the legalization of drugs, oppose ALL foreign wars of aggression, or believe that sex for hire should be just as legal as any other contracted service.


Loren
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 5:19 am

Given that Mr. Weigel was previously an associate editor for Reason, and covered Bob Barr's Presidential campaign more than just about any other journalist, I think you may be more than a little mistaken as to his familiarity with libertarianism.


David Weigel doesn’t have a clue either « disinter
Pingback posted September 5, 2009 @ 1:37 pm

[...] September 5, 2009 by disinter First it was Russell Mokhiber, now it is the human rat himself: David Weigel. [...]


magnetomax
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

Lew Rockwell? “Far right”? LOL!!! Weigel's view of political philosophy as a simplistic left/right spectrum is cute. Apparently, Rockwell's brand of libertarianism evades Mr. Weigel's ability to pigeon-hole it.

Well, if you must have a simplistic reduction of it all, then consider this: Left vs. Right is dead. It's the control-freaks against the rest of us. And the rest of us are gravitating towards Rockwell, Mises, Paul and freedom's great advocates throughout history.


disinter
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 4:39 pm

LewRockwell.com is not even close to being “far right”. Get your facts straight by seeing this chart:

http://politicalclassdismissed.com/?p=619

Closer to FAR left.


disinter
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 4:41 pm

Given that Bob Barr is a neocon criminal, I don't think Weigel has a clue. An agenda, maybe.


smrstrauss
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 5:25 pm

Re: “I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school.”

Does that say that he kept it? If you were a child and found a copy of a birth certificate in a book, would you take it (it not being your property), or would you leave it where you found it, in the old book? And, if he left it in the old book, was there a chance that the old book got thrown out?

In short, we do not know that Obama has a copy of the original. We only know that he saw a copy of the original a long time ago; since then, it could have been lost.

Many people lose their original birth certificates. It seems likely that Obama was among them. This being the case, he had to ask for a copy. We KNOW that he did request Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007 because that is when they sent him the Certification of Live Birth.

So, Obama asked for his birth certificate. Hawaii sent him the Certification. Hawaii ONLY sends out the Certification. No matter what you ask for, the original or just a birth certificate, Hawaii sends out the Certification. Nothing else.

Re McCain having posted his birth certificate. He did NOT. McCain's birth certificate never appeared on the official McCain web site. The birth certificate that is on the web right now is not McCain's. As for the Senate confirming his place of birth. Maybe, but did it see his birth certificate?

The Washington Post reported:

“Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the “Child Born Abroad” records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain. ” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar…)

In contrast to this, there IS an official birth certificate for Obama and an original birth certificate in the file.

Before this election No president or major party candidate for president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less show it to both FactCheck and Polifact. And that birth certificate is the official birth certificate of the state, and the facts on it have been confirmed twice by the two officials in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of his birth at the time, and there is no evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.


SethK
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 5:32 pm

Weigel's primary role at Reason was to undermine Ron Paul's campaign and to promote the NeoCon Bob Barr's race. In other words, in introduce FUD. I must say, looking back through his writings there, that he did it brilliantly. I wonder just how many subscribers Reason lost as a result.

No real libertarian would have left Reason voluntarily to go work for the Examiner.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 6:24 pm

Wow! World Net Daily has 17 full-time staffers? This means idiot right-wing hicks really DO have money. A lot of advertising dollars must flow through the muck at WND. So Jerry Falwell was really onto to something, after all.

This explains the televangelists. But it doesn't explain why no one outside of Fox gives a flying fig what WND reports. Oh, wait. It does. Fox is chasing the same dollars from the right-wing hicks. Sort of “up-selling” or “cross-selling,” if you want to get technical. I wonder if Rupert has to pay WND's founder a percentage of ad revenue based on the traffic WND drives to Fox?


stephenperry
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 6:28 pm

You're right about the fringe types, JimCap. Who knew that 75% of the country's faux-libertarians would post here? And once Tuci78 shows up, we'll be at 100%.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 6:33 pm

No. You can't get credit merely for slamming “IT companies,” Adam. You must identify Microsoft by name, or it doesn't count. Don't get sloppy and don't get lazy.

Bank usury was once considered a sin, huh? Interesting. I think this was just a swipe at Jews, who were money-lenders. But what do I know? Let's look at some other Biblical no-no's.

“* The eating of fat is prohibited forever. (Lev 3:17)
* You cannot round the corners of your beard or the hair on your temples. (Lev 19:27)
* Witches should be killed. (Ex 22:18)
* The congregation was to be a bastard free zone. The Bible was so dead set against bastards that their children, even to the tenth generation, could not enter the assembly of the Lord. (Duet 23:2) This is in keeping with God's principle of punishing children for the wrongdoings of their parents.
* Handicapped people could not approach God. Their presence would profane his sanctuary. (Lev 21:16-23) This scripture single-handedly offends almost every category of handicapped persons you can name. The blind, lame, injured, hunchbacks and dwarfs are specifically named. If anyone is left out, the catchall phrase “anyone with a blemish” is thrown in to cover them. I guess in Israel, the handicapped parking stalls were at the far end of the parking lot.
* Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles. (Duet 23:1) Now, I will admit that keeping one's testicles in tact is a pursuit worthy of some attention, but I have to ask: What went on in the “assembly of the Lord” that required a complete and full set of testicles? And, since testicles are usually not on display, was there someone at the gate assigned to check?
* Anyone working on the Sabbath is to be killed. (Ex 35:2) This law was to protect the sanctity of Sunday afternoon football. Unfortunately, any player that touched the ball would have to be killed after the game, because he had touched a dead pig. (Lev 11:7,8) That would certainly make it easier to play defense.
* Menstruating women and everything they touch are unclean. The only cure for this uncleanness was for the priest to kill a couple of pigeons. (Lev 15:19-30) What could be more logical?
* If a couple has sex during the woman's period, the two are to be cut off from their people. (Lev 20:18) Once again, how would anyone know that this had happened? The couple is obviously not going to tell. Maybe the genital inspector from the temple made house calls.
* Women were officially second class citizens. They were considered possessions that were owned, (Prov 12:4) and were officially subordinate (1 Cor 14:33,34).
* Homosexual men were to be executed. (Lev 20:13) No mention is made of homosexual women.
* If a woman grabs a man's privates during a fight, her hand is to be cut off. (Duet 25:11,12) Now, is it really necessary to have this law on the books? You get the impression that the person who was writing the laws had recently experienced this and was still a little pissed off.
* False prophets are to be killed by their own parents. (Zech 13:3)
* Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents. (Duet 21:18-21)”

http://liberator.net/articles/AdamsKen/BibleJus…


stephenperry
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 6:39 pm

National Review Online editorial:

“The fundamental fiction is that Obama has refused to release his “real” birth certificate. This is untrue. The document that Obama has made available is the document that Hawaiian authorities issue when they are asked for a birth certificate. There is no secondary document cloaked in darkness, only the state records that are used to generate birth certificates when they are requested.

If one applies for a United States passport, the passport office will demand a birth certificate. It defines this as an official document bearing “your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records.” The Hawaiian birth certificate President Obama has produced—the document is formally known as a “certificate of live birth”—bears that information. It has been inspected by reporters, and several state officials have confirmed that the information in permanent state records is identical to that on the president’s birth certificate—which is precisely what one expects, of course, since the state records are used to generate those documents when they are requested. In other words, what President Obama has produced is the “real” birth certificate of myth and lore. The director of Hawaii’s health department and the registrar of records each has personally verified that the information on Obama’s birth certificate is identical to that in the state’s records, the so-called vault copy.”

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTRjMTFhMz…

Wall Street Journal editorial:

“But a “controversy” has arisen over President Obama’s birthplace. We use those scare quotes advisedly, because there’s no real dispute over the matter, just some nuts with a conspiracy theory, a handful of Republican lawmakers who have been either foolish or fearful enough to lend some credibility to the theory, and Democrats who have spotted an excellent opportunity to make the GOP look foolish.

It would not surprise us if there does turn out to be a racist strain among the birther fringe. After all, birthers are lunatics and racists are lunatics. It does not follow, however, that all lunatics are racists.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702…

Politico's Ben Smith:

“Bill Clinton had the Vince Foster “murder.” George W. Bush had 9/11 Truth. And the new administration has brought with it a new culture of conspiracy: The Birthers.

Out of the gaze of the mainstream and even the conservative media is a flourishing culture of advocates, theorists and lawyers, all devoted to proving that Barack Obama isn't eligible to be president of the United States. Viewed as irrelevant by the White House, and as embarrassing by much of the Republican Party, the subculture still thrives from the conservative website WorldNetDaily, which claims that some 300,000 people have signed a petition demanding more information on Obama's birth, to Cullman, Alabama, where Sen. Richard Shelby took a question on the subject at a town hall meeting last week.

Their confinement to the fringe hasn't cooled the passion of believers; the obscure New York preacher James Manning turned up at a National Press Club session in December to declare the president “the most notorious criminal in the history not just of America, but of this entire planet.”

A quick reality check, before we dive in: The challenges to Obama's eligibility have no grounding in evidence. Courts across the country have summarily rejected the movement's theory — that Obama can't be a citizen because his father wasn't —as a misreading of U.S. law; and Hawaii officials, along with contemporary birth announcements, affirm that Obama was in fact born in Honolulu in 1961.

But belief in obscure, discredited theories is a constant in a country with a history of partisan division — a country in which, a recent survey showed, 34 percent of the public believes in UFOs and 24 percent believes in witches..

But the thriving birth-obsessed fringe also poses political risks and opportunities for the Obama White House, coming as it does after a campaign that devoted a substantial effort to rebutting another, now fading, myth — that Obama is a Muslim who would insist on being sworn in on the Koran.

The risk, of course, is the growth of a segment of the population, however small, that views the president as illegitimate.

“Some individuals and groups who are opposed to Obama's presidency want an 'acceptable' reason to cite to convince other individuals and groups who might be on the fence to join in their way of thinking,” said Patricia Turner, who studies rumors at the University of California, Davis. “The notion that his presidency is actually in violation of the Constitution has a fundamentally patriotic appeal.”

The opportunity for the White House? It's one of which some conservatives are sharply aware — that the Birthers may discredit Obama's more mainstream enemies.

“At some level, they're not that bad to have around because it reminds people that under the mainstream conservative press there's this bubbling up of really irrational hatred for the guy,” said former Clinton White House press secretary Jake Siewert.

Siewert recalled that his predecessor, Mike McCurry, sometimes deliberately called on a conservative radio host, Lester Kinsolving, just to undercut more mainstream criticism of the president.

“He would let them ask a question specifically to take the heat off the more legitimate line of questioning, maybe, and remind people that there were people out there who really had some wacko views,” Siewert recalled.

Conservatives see that hazard.

The conservative talk show host Michael Medved recently referred to the movement's leaders as “crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters” who are “the worst enemy of the conservative movement.”

“It makes us look weird. It makes us look crazy. It makes us look demented. It makes us look sick, troubled, and not suitable for civilized company,” he mourned.

One of the lead anti-Obama lawyers, Orly Taitz, a California dentist with a degree from an online law school, promptly threatened to sue Medved for defamation. Taitz, whose clients include soldiers challenging Obama's citizenship, has called on her blog's readers to “fight these communist Nazi thugs and hoodlums that took over our government,” and told POLITICO that the wide refusal to take her case seriously is “totalitarian.”

The White House is, presently, ignoring the birth certificate questions, having released an official copy of the Hawaii certificate during the presidential campaign. The press aide once tasked with quashing viral rumors, Ben LaBolt, no longer follows the fringe. But lawyers for the Democratic National Committee and for Obama have been steadily batting down a stream of lawsuits, winning motions to dismiss the suits in courts from Pennsylvania to Hawaii, from the state level to the United States Supreme Court.

To believers, the legal engagement itself is evidence that something's afoot.

“[Obama] is spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars to keep this information from getting out,” said Gary Kreep, the lawyer representing former presidential candidate Alan Keyes, who sued Obama in California to prevent the state from certifying its election results.

Keyes recently called the citizenship issue “the greatest crisis this nation has ever seen” and warned of “chaos, confusion and civil war.”

Kreep has been battling Obama's California lawyer, Fredric Woocher, to release the president's records from Occidental College on the theory that they might provide information about his citizenship.

Woocher has threatened to seek sanctions against Kreep for pursuing the case.

“This suit, like all of the others that have been filed challenging Obama's qualifications for the Presidency, is frivolous,” he said in an email to POLITICO, adding that he is, in fact, working pro bono. “There is absolutely no truth to the stories about the untold millions supposedly being paid to us,” he said.

Most of the lawsuits seek documents and express dissatisfaction with the State of Hawaii's refusal to release for public inspection Obama's original birth certificate rather than the notarized copy typically issued. The state's governor, Linda Lingle, has attested to the authenticity of the birth certificate, and Hawaii law forbids its release; Kreep blamed Democratic control of Hawaii for the refusal to release it. (Lingle is a Republican.)

The suits share a vague, underlying notion that Obama must be some sort of foreigner, probably Kenyan, Indonesian or British, though none have any evidence or a coherent narrative to support the claim. Some argue that while Obama was born in the United States, the fact that his father was a British subject should rule him out – an interpretation that may also, inconveniently, have made President Chester Arthur ineligible to serve, and which goes against long-settled law that American citizenship is conferred by birth in the United States. Others imagine that Obama was smuggled into the country as an infant, a claim contradicted by state records and contemporaneous birth announcements in two Honolulu papers.

The movement has also faced internal divisions. Kreep, a well-known conservative litigator, expressed some discomfort with his main East Coast counterpart, Phil Berg, a former Pennsylvania prosecutor who has also sued President George W. Bush to claim that he was complicit in the September 11 attacks.

“I don't ascribe to all his theories about 9/11 and all that,” Kreep said of Berg.

The movement has its occasional moments in the sun. When Cliff Kincaid of Accuracy in Media hinted darkly at citizenship questions at the Conservative Political Action Conference, he was loudly applauded, and the clip of his speech circulated with equal speed among birth certificate theorists and liberal activists.

David Emery, an expert on urban legends who writes for About.com, said the citizenship rumor has been fueled by an unusually “deep well of revulsion toward Barack Obama himself, and rage.”

“Thanks to the relentless agitation of the conspiracy theorists and the sheer quantity of hypothetical scenarios and legal arguments floating around, they've clearly succeeded in planting unreasonable doubts in reasonable people's minds,” he said.

But, ignored by the left and the mainstream media and dismissed by the courts, the citizenshp movement find its bitterest disappointments coming from the right.

“Untold numbers of people have asked us to look into it,” said Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, which recently sued to block Hillary Clinton, on technical grounds connected to her Senate seat, from taking the position of secretary of state.

“When we sued over Hillary ineligibility there were a lot of folks saying, 'Why weren't you suing over Obama's ineligibility?'” he said..

Fitton said he hadn't “seen any credible evidence Barack Obama is not a U.S. citizen eligible for the presidency.”

“If people understood better what the law is, I don't think they'd be as concerned as they are,” he said.

Others have been less polite. Conservative bloggers regularly mock the “Birthers,” as they're dismissively known, just as liberal blogs like DailyKos purged the 9/11 “Truthers” from their ranks in the Bush years.

The conspiracy theorists are “embarrassing and destructive” the conservative activist David Horowitz wrote recently.

Even Kreep, who was the toast of the conservative movement for representing the anti-immigration Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, has found the work a bit thankless.

“They say, 'Get a life,'” he said of his fellow conservatives,” he said.

Meanwhile, the Birthers' persistence has prompted another, competing conspiracy theory on the right.

“I'm not a conspiracist, but this could be a very big conspiracy to make conservatives disgrace themselves,” Medved said.”

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=BF5…

If Medved is right, and this is all a conspiracy to make conservatives disgrace themselves, then President Obama should have Beer Summit Part 2 and invite the guy who forged the Kenyan Birf Sirtifikat, Michael Medved, and some random hot woman (just to make the obligatory photo-op more compelliing).


stephenperry
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 6:40 pm

Well, the next logical step is to make Oprah show us her birth certificate, right?

I am sure there are some Texas cattlemen who will fund your efforts. Get cracking.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 6:43 pm

You're onto something here, smrstrauss.

“The rest are very smart, and they do not believe what they say. Repeat,
they do NOT believe what they themselves say. They are lying with a motive, a
goal. So they say the same things over and over, even though they do not
believe it.

Their motive is to find another John Wilkes Booth or Lee Harvey Oswald. The
potential for this exists anyway, of course, but these serious birthers
are trying to encourage more potential killers, to raise the potential for
violence. They hope to find someone who is armed and dangerous and who
believes their claims. They are cowards.”

Aside from the part about “very smart,” you're perfectly describing Tuci78. He kept pining for a “moody loner with a middle name, sniper training and a mail-order junk rifle.”


stephenperry
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 6:45 pm

Hey Pete, thanks for alerting me to this thread. Good stuff, you were right.


wayoutwest
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 8:08 pm

Stephen, you seemed to be in a rut with the sick puppy and i thought this thread might get you back on higher ground. I see that it has worked from your latest comments. There are some good people here that seem to understand the true nature of this debate.


monkey99
Comment posted September 5, 2009 @ 8:40 pm

stephenperry,

It's attack of the “Chicken Littles”. If you watch this crap with a little common sense, it all falls apart of it's own accord. Let them spend the money, and the effort. All the self-aggrandizing efforts will be for nothing when things don't turn out as they say they will. I like this sort of thing…..you have to be dead-on about your predictions, or………………

HEY, YOU! LOOK OUT! YOU! OVER THERE! LOOK OUT! THERE”S ANOTHER ONE! THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!


Loren
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 5:43 am

You're moving the goalposts. I didn't claim that Mr. Weigel is a “real libertarian.” I don't know what his personal politics are. I pointed out that he's well aware of libertarianism, as opposed to your claim of ignorance.

You claimed that he was either ignorant of libertarianism or pro-progressive. The evidence, and his journalistic history, strongly suggests that he is neither.

It's particularly amusing to see you accuse Mr. Weigel of trying “to smear all non-progressive opinion with the same “wacky” brush,” and then in your next comment turn that around completely and claim that he gave too much favoritism to a “Neocon” candidate during the last campaign season. At least try to keep your accusations consistent.


The Washington Independent WorldNetDaily Does Victory Lap on Van … – CelebrityTwitterGossip.com
Pingback posted September 6, 2009 @ 10:31 am

[...] reported on Friday that the earliest attacks on Van Jones came from WorldNetDaily. Today, the Website is taking full [...]


Alan Colmes’ Liberaland » The Van Jones Story
Pingback posted September 6, 2009 @ 11:35 am

[...] Beck then picks up the story, and it snowballs from there. Eva Patterson of the Equal Justice Society was Executive Director of the Lawyers Committee for [...]


The Washington Independent » Far-Right Site Gains Influence in …
Pingback posted September 6, 2009 @ 8:26 pm

[...] Here is the original post: The Washington Independent » Far-Right Site Gains Influence in … [...]


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 7:38 pm

Shocking–a member of Obama's cabinet resigns for something OTHER than tax evasion!


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 7:53 pm

The whole 'green economy' crap has nothing to do with 'socialism'. Rather, its about protectionist legislation for certain companies, vs. others. We saw this with Dubya's mercury emissions limits from coal: since Appalachian anthracite has more Hg than Western coal (the producers of which bankrolled the Bush campaign), this was an 'incentive' to use Western-sourced coal in powerplants. Obama's energy-sector financial backers are the nuclear industry…guess who'll supply power for all those electric cars the greenies dream of? If people believe the global warming fearmongering ('The Day After Tomorrow' and 'Inconvenient Truth'-type nonsense), dangerous, expensive nuke plants won't seem so bad an alternative. Obama, funded by car companies and unions, won't update CAFE standards. Instead, he targets 'dirty' Alberta tarsands and offshore/Alaskan crude. This essentially guarantees that the U.S. will be dependant on Venezuelan and Gulf oil. (And you wonder why he hugged Chavez and bowed to King Abdullah?)

Cap and trade, the Kyoto Accord and other silliness lets developing countries off the hook, without addressing the root cause of fossil fuel use: overpopulation. The best 'environmental' policy would be to reverse the Bush cuts to third world family planing initiatives. Politically incorrect though it may be, the 'inconvenient truth' is that developing countries have unsustainable birthrates. Allowing third-worlders to continue breeding like bunnies (while, thanks to vaccinations and sanitation, no longer dropping like flies) and letting them off the hook for emissions targets won't solve the CO2 emissions issue.


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 8:11 pm

I'm not talking about the Bible. Rather, it was pre-Vatican II doctrine that usury was a Grave Sin. That was, until the Church discovered a new source of post-tithe income: money-lending and interest-earning investments. Like everything else, this all boils down to vulgar Marxism. Of course, some of the banks now offer 'halal' financial products for Muslims, whereby interest is banned, along with investment in things like alcohol, porn and pigs (C4 for suicide belts is apparently not haram).

Microsoft wasn't the only IT firm involved. Another big one was Google. A similar situation happened in Canada, in the early 1990s. The Liberal Party's Jean 'ADScam' Chretien was bankrolled by, among others, IT companies like CGI and Honeywell. For their campaing donations, they got the Federal Gun Registry. Nearly two BILLION disappeared into this moneypit. Overnight, millions of Canadian gun owners became de jure criminals. The crime rate actually INCREASED (thanks, mostly, to unfettered immigration and 'conditional sentencing'), people re-registered stolen guns as many as THREE TIMES and over a third of the guns in Canada are still unregistered, and their owners unlicensed. The union-funded NDP and Bloc Quebecois supported this makework program, since their would've been redundant public servants otherwise. Since this was supposed to cost $20MILLION, the cost escalation on the B.O. medical records plan will be MUCH higher. (Medical records are vastly more involved than serial numbers on guns…which CGI managed to screw up.)


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 8:24 pm

People are entitled to a certain amount of political stupidity in their youth. However, Van the Man went all 'truther' merely eight years ago.


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 8:30 pm

Well, the Kitty Kelly book on The Big 'O' is due out soon, so we'll get to learn if she's a lesbo with her 'assistant' and who Steadman's bum-chum is. (I think it's John Travolta.)

People still seem to think that B.O. is a closet Muslim, but I doubt it (the bow to that Saudi despot notwithstanding)–I have him pegged for a Scientologist.


greylox
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:00 pm

**It's shameful that such a small number of lunatics can hold so much power. Who elected THEM to anything?


greylox
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:05 pm

**Just a question. Doesn't Beck consider himself to be a libertarian? Would you call him a liberal? I think the proper pigeon hole (of one must use that term) WOULD be far right.


Anonymous
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 2:06 am

Pete, you did so well with “buy him out, boys!” that I’m going to branch out.

There’s a Seinfeld episode where George’s girlfriend thinks she has mono, so he can’t have sex for a while. He becomes amazingly intelligent.

Jerry explains it with a head of lettuce. He pulls off a little scrap of lettuce, and holds it next to the head of lettuce. He tells George that the scrap of lettuce is his brain, and the head of lettuce is the part that is obsessed with sex.

“Now, you’ve extracted an astounding amount from this little scrap,” he tells George, but now he’s working with the full brain.

I’m not George, but I have similar issues. For a brain, I have the little scrap of lettuce, an even tinier scrap of lettuce, and a head of lettuce.

The head of lettuce is the part of my brain that’s obsessed with sex.

The scrap of lettuce is the part I use to communicate with normal people, remember where I live and when to feed my pets, and get along in society without causing random explosions.

The tinier scrap is the part I use solely to mock birthers and point out the flaws in their silly made-up arguments.

I’m happy with the resource allocation. I’m actually hoping to wean some of the birther lettuce back to the head of lettuce, where I could use some more processing power.

But it is nice to be able to use the larger-scrap piece once in a while. Like with the people like you, smrstrauss, SteveX, JimPA, jjfitz, and other non-birthers.

Oh, speaking of what my pets eat, it’s time for the evening meal and stroll. See you around the threads.

You might enjoy the review of Strunk & White I went through with Roguewind on the Trent Franks is Signing Onto…thread today. He never stops surprising me. Just when I think I know how dumb Roguewind is, he goes and writes something dumber than I thought he was capable of…


greylox
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:08 pm

**You can't have it both ways, Adam. You cannot be “big business” AND “union-connected”. Pick one, and we'll argue from there.

Dubya and Cheney DO fall into the “fascist” spectrum. Who is more pro-business that that administration?

You need to seriously hone your arguments.


greylox
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:11 pm

**Obama's presence is quite compelling enough for at least half of the audience, silly man.


greylox
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:14 pm

**He's met his burden of proof. You've got Orly Taitz trying to prove YOUR nonsense. Good luck, dude.


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:25 pm

I don't agree with much of WND's positions on things, like calling B.O. a 'socialist' (he's a Daley-style mobster capitalist pig) and those Revelations predictions (the Good Book didn't predict the Holocaust, after all). However, at least they bothered to do SOME investigative journalism on The One. The mainstream, Obama PAC-funding media ran ILLEGALLY-OBTAINED personal data on Joe the Plumber (after he embarassed the Savior), found out that Dubya had a DUI and 'roids, and concocted that ridiculous National Guard letter (and left Dan Rather to take the fall). Yet they couldn't bother to do a simple title search on the address proported to be the Obamas' (in that newspaper birth announcement), which turned out to be someone else's. And don't forget attacking 'racist Republicans' over that Obama the Socialist Joker poster…that turned out to've been made by a left-wing Muslim.

Also, you can't call the WND people 'crazy', without looking at their counterparts in the Obama camp. Not only Michael Moore, but also the very slimy Sean Penn, entertained 'truther' theories and tried to pass them off as shrewd investigative journalism. Sean the gun-toting (even though he's anti-NRA, his connections got him a CCW permit) belligerant drunkard, an unbiased investigative journalist? Also, when did people like Jane Fonda and Dany Glover jump on the antisemite bandwagon? (These two political luminaries are among the Obamamaniac glitteratti that are calling for boycotting films from Israeli directors, on the grounds that Israel is an 'apartheid state'.) The probama press has also concocted the conspiracy theory that Binyamin Netanyahu is behind the 'birther' movement because, naturally, Orly Taitz is a Zionist agent.


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:30 pm

Buckley, like Alzheimer Ronnie, also thought that the Mujaheddin were the cat's meow. Unlike McCarthy and Hoover, though, he wasn't outed as a pickle-kisser.


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:42 pm

If, say, the auto companies go under, both their shareholders and workers are screwed. They both want government bailouts. Both construction unions and construction firms benefit from porkbarrel infrastructure programs. Class interests often overlap.

If George Part II and Defib Dick are 'fascists', so are Obama and Biden. The corporatist label isn't entirely inappropriate. The U.S., like Russia and Singapore, seems to be creeping towards the Lee Kwan Yew model of managed democracy (Australia and Britain actually moved very far along this path). There is private ownership of the economy, but heavy, cronyist regulation. Most municipal governments operate as corporatist states, with business and union leaders making backroom deals and nobody bothering to run against incumbents (out of apathy, fear and/or lack of money). The Daley family-run city-state of Chicago is basically a corporatist state.


Adam
Comment posted September 6, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

If you 'remember being told' that Rihanna and Taylor Swift were having a torrid affair, would you repeat that as 'truth'? I, for one, would like to believe it…but wouldn't, until I saw the sex tape.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 1:43 am

Agreed. It does fall apart of its own accord. But that doesn't mean I can't rock it back and forth to make the fall a bit harder.

I enjoy picking at the birthers' scabs. I want them to take their arguments before the television cameras, or at least get themselves on YouTube.

Even if they don't, I enjoy mocking racists. Birthers are, every last one of them, racists.

But there's also a little Dennis the Menace in all of us that wants to put a magnifying glass on an ant just to watch it burn. Of course, I'd never do that to an ant. Ants don't deserve torture. Birthers, on the other hand… That's why I look at their posts with a magnifying glass and point out all the flaws. Actually it doesn't take a magnifying glass. Not even the practiced eye of a proofreader. Birthers just pretty much lay it all out there with neon flashing lights.

“I don't believe the mainstream media but I trust utterly anything World Net Daily or Glenn Beck says, even when what they say conflicts with what they said previously!”

“I can't read beyond a 3rd grade level but I want to parse fine distinctions between and among a Certificate of Live Birth and a Certification of Live Birth.”

“I don't trust Obama because I don't know anything about him. This is because I was re-tinfoiling my shack for the year and a half when you couldn't step outside without being bombarded with waves of information about Obama.”

“You'll see. Obama's time is running out. His act is wearing thin. He's never gonna make it. He's gonna get exposed. When that happens, hoo-boy, you'll all be wishing you hadn't made fun of me. Just you wait. And when my big sister gets done braiding her friend's hair, she said she's gonna come out here and beat all of y'all up!”


stephenperry
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 1:48 am

“However, at least they bothered to do SOME investigative journalism on The One.”

Yes, and you know what their investigation turned up? Why, yes, they learned that the COLB is authentic:

“A separate WND investigation into Obama's certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.”

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageI…

And Moore and Penn are not in the “Obama camp.” They may well vote for him but they are not part of his team, campaign staff, Administration, etc.

Let's not drag Jane Fonda into this. Randwulf already chewed her out in a bizarre Vietnam rant.

And whoever “Dany” Glover is, I'm sure he had a hard time going through life with a name that is eerily similar to a famous BLACK actor. Let's leave the poor bastard alone, okay?

You shouldn't call a stranger “belligerant” until you've walked a mile in his shoes. And learned to spell “belligerent.”

Show us a link to something that proves the press is “probama,” let alone that some member of the “probama” press is blaming Netanyahu for you birther doofuses.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 1:53 am

Geez, Bruce. I tried to follow this. I really did. I set down my Samuel Adams and squinted hard at the screen. I don't wear glasses, or need to. But after your little problem distinguishing “PVR” from “DVR” I thought maybe my eyesight was the problem.

No. I can see just fine. It's your gibberish that's the problem.

So…

Google wants to take my guns and use them to kill healthcare reform, is that it?

Some guy in Canada got money from an IT company or maybe a whole lotta IT companies.

Canada passed some gun law or other.

The gun law required money from the Canadian government or its people, not clear which.

Crime went up, by some measure, according to someone.

The gun law has not affected a third of the guns in Canada or their owners.

Because the gun law in Canada cost more than the politicians thought it would, you believe Obama's health care plan, which does not involve Canadians or guns, will cost more than American politicians and budget estimators calculate.

Shit. I put my beer down for THAT?

I've told you before, Bruce. You're not real swift.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 1:56 am

Doubtless, but what about those of us, like me, who are heterosexual men who have ALREADY seen a black man wearing a suit and tie, and thus got a little bored with the Obama coverage a while ago?

If I wanted to see a black guy wearing a suit and tie, I could look at myself more closely in the mirror when I get dressed in the morning.

No, I need some eye candy. Salma Hayek, Sharon Stone, Naomi Watts, Halle Berry, some hot intellectual liberal woman has to be available. It's patriotic duty.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 1:58 am

Bruce, we will let you know when we need help ID'ing Scientologists. You just keep mis-reading your Muslim history until we summon you.

Or, get back to watching Phantom of the Opera. Talk about TMI.


Elon
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 2:33 am

greylox,

The people who tend to be easily impressionable. Paranoid schizophrenics are prone to delusions, a story line that has been psychologically self-construed in which random events become deeply meaningful. That's what WND offers its poisoned product to its beguiled readers.


Far-Right Site Gains Influence In Obama Era « The 44 Diaries
Pingback posted September 7, 2009 @ 2:15 pm

[...] link [...]


If Glenn Beck Was A Czar Would He Be A Card Carrying Tsar of Tar? Why Didnt Couric Ask Van Jones What He Likes To Read? | The Centrist
Pingback posted September 7, 2009 @ 4:34 pm

[...] of fans online — to Jones (and his role in the Obama White House). Beck mentioned Jones on 14 episodes, according to the Washington Independent’s Dave Weigel, while also railing against him on [...]


Van who? Beck, bloggers pushed story | Obama Biden White House
Pingback posted September 7, 2009 @ 5:43 pm

[...] of fans online — to Jones (and his role in the Obama White House). Beck mentioned Jones on 14 episodes, according to the Washington Independent’s Dave Weigel, while also railing against him on [...]


Birther Post Compilation as of September 7, 2009 | The Daily Jabber
Pingback posted September 7, 2009 @ 8:31 pm

[...] [...]


Adam
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 7:38 pm

When Danny Glover quits picking on Jews, I'll quit picking on him.

(The 'n' key keeps sticking on my year-old keyboard, along with a few others. So much for all the nice things I said about MS keyboards…)

And yes, Sean ('he looks like KD Lang'–Madonna) Penn endorsed B.O.:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/cele…

After getting all snitty about their election being called a sham (it was), the Russians concluded that there WAS probama media bias:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullco…

And, AGAIN, this has nothing to do with secret commie plots, or whatever–just who gets to use the whitespace, when the TVs go digital. Since the media-telecom companies paid for the Obama 'landslide' (52.5%) victory, they damn well want their money's worth.


HDM
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 9:11 pm

You will have to here it in his “OWN WORDS” to understand the facts!


KatyFace
Comment posted September 7, 2009 @ 10:04 pm

Hey, stephenperry: I'm with you. I feel like I'm poking, picking, and mocking in the dark. I realize being and independent thinker and not a goose-stepper means it's hard to organize, but shouldn't there be some site or another that we can utilize as a “get-out-the-message” sort of thing? Information we have, but calls to action we don't. At least, I haven't found any. Fascist Glenn Beck is out there (no, that was too easy) giving his followers marching orders. Do “we” have a way to marshal our troops?


Mrs. Joseph Farah
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 12:46 am

On the subject of WND and race: check out some of their “reporting” on post-apartheid South Africa. While there's no question that crime in contemporary South Africa is nastily endemic, WND goes a lot further then most, dropping non-too-subtle hints about how life was so much better back in the good old days of the National Party, and about the coming of a race war.


Adam
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 4:03 am

Guns are real simple: make, serial number and type. Yet CGI and Honeywell and all those nice, overpayed public servants with defined-benefit pensions managed to screw it up. The 'compliance' rate was barely 2/3ds and organized crime (HAs, &c.) managed to get ahold of the records, for 'shopping lists' in B&Es. Costs ended up runing a hundred times higher than promised, with suspicion that much money was embezzled. Even with severe criminal penalties for non-compliance and warrantless searches of LEGAL gun owners, the criminal possession of illegal (including 'prohibited', like short-barreled and full-auto) firearms INCREASED. Provinces in Canada, which DON'T have the constitutional rights to make criminal legislation, had a conniption (people in Alberta even talked secession).

Medical records are real complex: text records of medications, procedures and lab results, and doctors'/other medical professionals' notes, financial/billing info, plus image data (X-ray's, &c.). This all has to be digitized. A standard (probably MS's) for storing this stuff has to exist. Every doctor, pharmacy, hospital, ambulance dispacher, insurer and lots more will need to have compatible software–more than likely proprietary and definately licensed (at considerable cost) to MS. Since the software probably isn't going to be FOSS, there is no way 3rd parties will audit it and nobody will learn of security flaws until there's been a breach (as with Explorer). Even with B.O.'s proposed severe financial and criminal penalties, there will be massive non-compliance. Insurers will have legal access to personal data that they don't currently have; criminals will have an absolute goldmine, in this leaky pool of personal records. Since the 10th amendment guarantees states' rights, there will be a massive state backlash.


Adam
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 4:13 am

Obama is a frightfull dullard. He “umms” and “uhs” his way through speeches and sometimes even gets confused about what city he's in. When his teleprompter crashed to the floor, recently, his response was “oh…goodness!” He's not bad looking, but no Tyson Beckford. Neither is Sarah Palin an Evangeline Lilly look-alike, regardless of how many old Republicans think she's 'hot'. Most politicians are hideous, so I guess those two get the beauty prize.


The Smegmatists « POWIP
Pingback posted September 8, 2009 @ 8:30 am

[...] useful idiots and intellectual panjandrums in their own conceit Rick Moran and Dave Wiegel pen pieces lamenting the death of intellectualism in conservatism, joined by Patrick Ruffini, also [...]


Anonymous
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 5:53 pm

No, I reckon it’s cause you’re a buncha dumbasses who are sore losers.


White House Green Jobs Czar Resigns | NYU Local
Pingback posted September 8, 2009 @ 2:25 pm

[...] After all, WorldNetDaily may have started the right-wing anti-Jones jihad, but Beck sure as hell finished it, waging war on the guy for over a [...]


monkey99
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 3:24 pm

KatyFace,

Unfortunately, the answer is no. The only thing to do now, is discredit the fear mongers at every opportunity. They will do it to themselves eventually. It's like those nuts who portend the “end of the world”, it's kind of hard to keep true believers when the world is still spinning. I'm getting a charge out of watching them nail one foot to the floor, and listen to them grousing about why they are walking in circles!

Beck's got his own problems, which is why he is spouting this garbage now. Get out the message (whatever THAT is) before he gets punted off the air for his idiotic statements. So don't worry about giving them ammunition for their cause, it may seem as though they are gaining ground, but just wait. The whole thing will implode from it's own weight soon enough.

Be patient. There isn't anything we could do, that they won't do to themselves, eventually.


monkey99
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 3:32 pm

stephenperry,

By the way, be it far from me to come between a man and his enjoyment!

KatyFace, take cues from this man! I like his thinking (unlike the “Guvmint ovuhtrow” crowd).


Photomaniacal » Blog Archive » The toxicity of truth | Dan Kennedy
Pingback posted September 8, 2009 @ 4:58 pm

[...] Weigel of the Washington Independent is indispensable in tracing the anti-Jones campaign back to an April “exposé” in WorldNetDaily, a right-wing website that is as popular as [...]


stephenperry
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 5:25 pm

KatyFace, I agree with monkey99's response to you (below) superficially. There is no sign-up sheet circulating for a Birther Ass-Whoopin' Tour.

But we have a way to marshal our troops nonetheless. You cannot do it by appealing to their sense of reason, rationality, or justice. It's hard to motivate people with positive rewards. You'd need to wave a lot of cash in their faces.

But it is easy to motivate people by showing them the potential negative consequences they otherwise face.

In other words, if you show people YouTube clips of idiots waving ziplock-bagged birth certificates at GOP leaders, or if you circulate written Unabirther Manifestos by dolts like Tuci78, or if you read them excerpts from “Spreading Birther Lies and Primate Thighs: The Petticoat Papers of Randypuppy [Randwulf, who threatens a coming Civil War Part Deux between Patriots and Commies, in addition to threatening to invent an entirely new personal history for himself if we don't start taking his old invented history more seriously], then you start to get attention.

It's like seeing those awful Sally Struthers “Feed the Children” commercials. You were ready to donate, just so that Sally would stop eyeing the sacks of corn and rice with her hungry, failed-D-List celebrity yo-yo dieter's eyes. But they show you the pathetic children and Sally's eyes well up with tears because they know that if you see how bad things are, you'll be motivated to do some good.

Long story somewhat longer, if you and others who think like you take a little time to expose yourselves to the raw idiocy and naked racism of the birthers and others who simply want to throw a monkey wrench into the engine of American progress, then you'll be spurred to action.

If, instead, you are only peripherally aware of what filth these jerks are spewing, and you don't know what their exact words are, you will miss out on the seriousness of the situation and perhaps you'll just go on about your day.

You would miss, for example, Randwulf threatening to kill us all because it would be such a fine thing to do, if only he could get enough bullets. And you would miss Tuci78 wistfully pining for a “moody loner with a middle name, sniper training, and a mail-order junk rifle” in “a window overlooking a tree-lined street” to “excise the cancer” that he considers “Barry Soetero the Mombasa Messiah” to be.

So to keep that from happening, the best thing to do is keep birthers and other such idiots in the public eye. My personal self-imposed obligation is to mock birthers and point out their idiocy in the most humorous ways I can think of. I could devote myself to a sterile facts-and-law analysis, but that's what nbc1, JohnC, neilends, and several others are here for. There's gotta be a niche for you, as well.

Cheers.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 5:31 pm

Agreed. The birther/right-wing nut tree is rotten, and its roots are not deep. The winds of change are blowing, and the tree is about to fall over.

But there's no reason we cannot hasten the tree's fall by chopping at the leeward side.

There is a quote from Emerson that is often attributed to Thoreau. It is also often mangled, but the point is that there are a thousand people hacking at the branches of evil for every one person attacking the root.

I figure that those thousand people are achieving more than the slack-jawed gawkers who just stand there waiting for the tree to fall.

“But Marge! If I'm part of that mob, I can help steer it in wise directions!” –Homer Simpson


stephenperry
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 5:33 pm

“I like the way Snrub thinks!” –Smithers, trying to assist Mr. Burns in his scheme to get the town to give its newfound oil wealth to “the local energy concern”

monkey99, I enjoy your lucid posts. It is always nice to encounter a kindred spirit. Fight on.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 5:41 pm

So, the Russians decided that the American media has a bias. And you're siding with the Russians. What a shocker.

I'm sure Danny Glover is praying for the day when you train that laser-like focus of yours onto some other person.

So Sean Penn is no Tyson Beckford, who you've already professed to find attractive. Pity for Sean Penn. He won't be receiving your undies in the mail.

Obama's victory WAS a landslide. Eight million votes isn't significant to you? Bush had a million votes more than Kerry and called it a “mandate.”

You should know about mandates. You want to go on one with Tyson Beckford.

The media-telecom companies didn't pay for Obama's victory. But they're making a fortune from all the people watching and talking about Obama. Any money they spent on him is a loss-leader. Like when they put milk on an advertised sale but stick the milk way in the back corner of the grocery store.

Do you get out into the real world much, Bruce? Or do you limit your contact with the real world to the dry goods store down by the creek, and your infrequent interaction with the UPS man when he brings new shipments of tinfoil to your backwoods shack?


stephenperry
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 5:47 pm

Man it sure sounds like Canada is in free-fall. I will wait for you to start selling “Free Alberta” t-shirts.

Good thing we're not in Canada. And good thing you have zero credibility. Otherwise there'd be reason to be concerned about what you've reported about Canadian gun laws.

Oh God, please don't start throwing 10th Amendment arguments at us. It's part of the Constitution. Not some boomerang you can use to display your situational ethics. We're still dizzy here.

First you nutjobs like the 10th Amendment, when you claim it allows you to discriminate against poor children.

Then you hate it, when it prevents you from seeing Obama's birth certificate as doing so would be against Hawai'ian privacy laws.

Now you want to use it again, in some nefarious scheme to deprive Microsoft of earning any money from the use of its software.

Let us know when the sky falls, Chicken Little. When it does, you can tell us how much more it will cost to pick up the pieces than it did when Canada fell into an abyss that only YOU noticed.


stephenperry
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 5:51 pm

He may have been confused about which city he was in during the campaign.

But tell me, did he ever refer to the audience as “my fellow prisoners?”

Did he ever say that “Congressman Murtha considers you all to be nothing but a bunch of racists, and I couldn't agree with him more…I couldn't disagree with you…I couldn't disagree with him more?”

No?

Oh okay then. Nothing to see here. Except your man-crush on Tyson Beckford. And we already knew you were fruity as a loop. Go back to watching Phantom of the Opera in between sneaking peeks at the bent-over offensive line in a college football game.


Anonymous
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 11:03 pm

What is wrong with wanting answers that day that have not been given. I think it is entirely plausible that cheesy and shrub were involved. Why were airline stocks so down. Why was the eastern coast air defense on exercises away from the area. One real good question is: WHY WAS BIN LADEN’S family allowed to leave the country. Why weren’t they tortured and held in Gitmo for eight years without legal representation? Being a communist is not a crime.


KatyFace
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 6:15 pm

I've only just found this thread, but you and monkey99 are my new heroes. Your advice is sound and intelligent, and I appreciate the humor you use in making your points. And I can appreciate that you both think it will eventually burn itself out for lack of real fuel. To me it's looking more like a conflagration rather than a bonfire, and I'm worried, both that the inherent racism is only just getting started, and that we have no place (or places, more likely) to discuss and receive calls to action. I've been supporting Color of Change by publishing the new advertisers on GB program and asking folks to write and remind them of GB's comments. But most sites seem to be one side or the other, and who has a change of heart when everyone is agreeing with you? That's part of why this thread was appealing.
I appreciate the time you both took to respond, and I'll continue my personal push-back in the vein of your good advice. Thank you.


Adam
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 6:56 pm

A 'mandate' was what Dubya's hand-holding with King Abdullah looked like: icky and creepy, fer sure, but within the bounds of Presidential Protocol (i.e., an…*urp*…affectionate meeting of 'equals'–heads of state). When Obama prostrated himself before the guardian of mecca, medina and light sweet crude, that was a SERIOUS breach of protocol. Even mere U.S. citizens aren't supposed to do this, let alone the PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC. Yet the mainstream media virtually censored this, until it got onto Youtube. Then, they bought the B.O. B.S. that, since he was sooo 'tall' (1″ more than Abdullah), Obama the Giant had to bend over to shake the terrorist-funding, Jew-hating, jihadi misogynist's slimey hand.


Adam
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 8:45 pm

Good luck with trying to keep your credit card company from knowing about your Peyronie's diesease…oh, wait–that was Bill Clinton. The Hell's Angels Electronic Fraud Division will just have to settle for blackmailing you about that scrotum lift you had.

Alzheimer's Ronnie deserves the blame for pissing on the 10th Amendment, for his 21+ drinking law reform. Also, helping to create the Taliban. (9/11 victims' survivors should piss on his tomb.)

American taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for crapware. IF there is a Federal electronic medical records database (there shouldn't be), it should be done with freeware: 'free', as in beer and 'free', as in the sourcecode being available for auditing, to prevent security issues.


monkey99
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 8:47 pm

stephenperry,

Great points all! I do much as you do (I have other posts on other sites) on all the current news, and run against a level of “suspension of disbelief” I've never seen before. I know you've seen this, too, and I'm all for discrediting the nonsense at every turn, but I suppose the Birthers and other Bulldukey vendors will never see sanity. Their world is a funny one, though! I know you are out there shaking that tree hard, but I'm not a slacker! I'm not waiting for the tree to fall, I'm waiting for the nuts to fall-and you know, I DO enjoy roasting them!!

KatyFace,

You just keep on going, do what you know is right….and T.R.U.E. stephenperry is right, call them out. MAKE them explain themselves (in public, if necessary). Also, have a friend on hand to do this. It's always easier if you have someone who can help refute the nonsense (it's harder to discount the statements of a group). Somehow, I can't see these people going out and making friends, unless insanity has gripped the nation harder than I think it did.


scrzbill
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 10:36 pm

SIX MILLION WOW America has 2% of its population that is stark raving MAD?


scrzbill
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 10:40 pm

Like off the side of the road right. Like a drunk who is on a dry drunk. Like a drunk who has found a new addiction. Power.


scrzbill
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 10:43 pm

A confessed radical communist. What does that definition mean? Has rove confessed to being a right wing neo con christofascist? I did not know being a communist was a crime?


scrzbill
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 10:53 pm

I have never heard communism and fascism so described. Did you get that from biecs definition of political parties out to destroy Amurikka. First if you are union connected, you are for the workers to get a fair and decent wage from the OPPRESSIVE corporations. Secondly; Fascism, the kind shrub and the republicans practice is putting Corporate interest ahead of the people. The kind of “red” sector idiots are supposed to be what the right wing christians always profess. Taking care of others. Shelter, food, proper health care, education. No. We cannot have those things, that is communism. You want everybody to fend for themselves. Build your own roads. Put up your own street lights, build you own hospitals. Trying to reason with idiots is a useless endeavor. I might as well talk to my relatives. Every time I bring up facts, they want to stop the discussion.


scrzbill
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 10:56 pm

Stop it, your way our of the league of this group. You will need to talk down some and then keep your fingers crossed. Your not talking to any intellectual giants here that I can tell. Giving them facts is going to confuse and frustrate. You will have to give more non sensible circle arguments.


Adam
Comment posted September 9, 2009 @ 12:03 am

Government vs private ownership (and, don't forget cooperatives) have their respective places. A publically-run medical-financial system works well. Private-for-profit clinics work well. A public auto insurance system works well in some Canadian provinces (BC, Saskatchewan, Manitoba). Privately-run mass transit works better than government systems (e.g., London, Curitiba). Ditto for things like garbage collection and roadworks. So do privately-run/publically-financed voucher schools. Note that the fancy-schmancy private school Obama has his girls in costs about the same, per-student, to run as a crappy DC-area public school. Also, 40% of Chicago PUBLIC school teachers have their kids in PRIVATE schools. What's wrong with this picture?

'Socialist' and 'capitalist' systems are each suited to different things…just not the ones they're used for now.


Media Channel 2.0 — Blog — The toxicity of truth: White House fails to innoculate itself against rage of the paranoid right
Pingback posted September 9, 2009 @ 11:13 am

[...] Weigel of the Washington Independent is indispensable in tracing the anti-Jones campaign back to an April “exposé” in WorldNetDaily, a right-wing website that is as popular as [...]


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Pingback posted September 9, 2009 @ 6:23 pm

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Comment posted September 9, 2009 @ 6:10 pm

…and then the bus drove off the side of a cliff.


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Comment posted September 10, 2009 @ 3:52 am

KatyFace – Welcome. Stephen's been the man. His posts are usually pretty good. The birthers can't hit him. He makes them pay for their nonsense. Great entertainment. Pull up a chair.


monkey99
Comment posted September 10, 2009 @ 4:55 am

JimPA,

I wasn't aware (shows you how much attention I pay) that we have a “Teflon Terror” amongst us! I agree.

Keep an eye out-the nonsense will be flying tomorrow. Now that it's post-Obama speech, the nuts will be rolling around spouting more lies. I'm sure WI will have a site for it by morning. See you there!

KatyFace,

You out there? Come join us! We can use as many voices as we can muster! Oh! and Welcome!


Mari
Comment posted September 10, 2009 @ 6:57 am

Even if you don't agree with someone. And even if you find what they are saying crazy.
Why in the world would you even allude that the “BIRTHERS” deserve torture???

What you are basically saying is that because you find these people crazy they should be harmed. You are also basically saying that all of them a crazy? Right?
Funny; I doubt you called people crazy when they were demanding that Mc Cain be vetted!

What it sounds like is; you want your freedom and constitutional rights of free speech.
But, when it comes to policy, ideas, beliefs that you don't agree with you want that particular groups rights removed!
When you remove rights from others you have volentairly given up the same rights for yourself.

I don't care about the birthers. But it sounds to me like the real racists here is You.
You have made General statements about an entire group of people without knowing them and said:

They are stupid
They cant read
And that they are all Racists…….

How about; instead of demeaning yourself by demeaning other that we instead have a productive and adult conversation with a intellectual exchange of ideas, thoughts, and
beliefs???


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WND… comic book news for the weak-minded who feed off of paranoid hate-speak.


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Comment posted September 11, 2009 @ 7:08 pm

Wow dude, how did you get that garbage from what he said? that is why liberals are so dumb they do their best to make stuff up from what was truly said!


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Another reason to watch Glenn Beck! I don't want either party's line. I'm sick of being lied to. I want the truth.


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So it is profit not philosophy, and followers following the followed. Going to be a hard fall.


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Obama is good at talking not doing.


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