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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;What They Call Mob Rule the Average American Calls Democracy&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: Xiaoxmxmxm</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-249089</link>
		<dc:creator>Xiaoxmxmxm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mantis</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-61193</link>
		<dc:creator>mantis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tuci, you loveable little Paulbot moron, an opinion column in a web-only college newspaper is the best you can come up with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tuci, you loveable little Paulbot moron, an opinion column in a web-only college newspaper is the best you can come up with?</p>
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		<title>By: Tuci78</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-61019</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuci78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=53794#comment-61019</guid>
		<description>Well, it&#039;s getting out in the drive-by media now.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;From &lt;a href=&quot;http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2009/08/05/4a79c4716da39&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Hahn&lt;/a&gt;, &quot;Publisher &lt;a href=&quot;http://StatePaper.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;StatePaper.com&lt;/a&gt; &quot; August 5, 2009.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;Publisher: Obama Should Produce Original Birth Certificate&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;At &lt;a href=&quot;http://StatePaper.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;StatePaper.com&lt;/a&gt;, we know by making this statement we will be instantly tagged as &quot;racist,&quot; &quot;birther,&quot; or other pejorative terms by those who defend the President of the United States. We often defend the President and the job he is doing and are regularly lambasted for being &quot;too liberal&quot; or an &quot;Obama lover&quot; by some of our most prolific critics.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But, here is the issue:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of our country. Article II of the Constitution requires the President to be a natural born citizen. Without reciting them here, there appears to be some serious questions raised about whether President Obama was born in the United States or Kenya. We have not checked sources, but there are reports that some witnessed his birth in Kenya.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The President&#039;s campaign staff and then his administration have released and placed on the internet a &quot;Certificate of Live Birth.&quot; We do not dispute the validity or correctness of that document as others have tried to do, suggesting the use of computers to alter seals and names. By releasing this document the President agrees that the claims about his status as a natural born citizen is an open, important, public issue.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But, this &quot;Certificate of Live Birth&quot; is simply not the best evidence that the President and his administration could offer to lay to rest any doubt about his status as a natural born citizen.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Barack Obama is a lawyer and a graduate of Harvard Law School. All law students study the body of law we call &quot;Evidence.&quot; One of the core tenets of American law is the &quot;best evidence rule&quot; which requires the production of original, or certified copies, of original document to prove a fact. Abstracts and summaries are not original documents.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The President has offered an abstract (Certificate) of his birth, but not an original birth certificate which would be the best evidence of his birth. We need the best evidence so that it can do what the best evidence is meant to do; dispel the doubts about a fact. We need to see the Birth Certificate. That&#039;s the one that is often handwritten and signed by the doctor.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Lawyers and legal thinkers will, obviously, argue the finer points of the &quot;Best Evidence Rule&quot; and its applicability to this matter. But, that misses the point. The notion of &quot;Best Evidence&quot; is solidly-grounded in law. This is an important public matter and it seems now that the President has started down the path of offering some evidence (Certificate of Live Birth), he should offer the &quot;best evidence&quot; (Original Birth Certificate) which is the source document for his birth. The document behind the document which has been released. This is what is needed now in the court of public knowledge.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The fact in question here is the constitutional qualification of the President of the United States to hold office. With a simple nod, the President could offer the American people the best evidence, the source document(s), as he learned about at Harvard, and dispel those who question his birth as a natural born citizen. His failure to provide this best evidence, when it could be so easily done, raises only more questions, which fuels an ugly public debate.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess there are some things that not even a journalism school graduate can stomach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#39;s getting out in the drive-by media now.</p>
<p>From <a href="http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2009/08/05/4a79c4716da39" rel="nofollow">David Hahn</a>, &#8220;Publisher <a href="http://StatePaper.com" rel="nofollow">StatePaper.com</a> &#8221; August 5, 2009.</p>
<p><b>Publisher: Obama Should Produce Original Birth Certificate</b></p>
<p><i>At <a href="http://StatePaper.com" rel="nofollow">StatePaper.com</a>, we know by making this statement we will be instantly tagged as &#8220;racist,&#8221; &#8220;birther,&#8221; or other pejorative terms by those who defend the President of the United States. We often defend the President and the job he is doing and are regularly lambasted for being &#8220;too liberal&#8221; or an &#8220;Obama lover&#8221; by some of our most prolific critics.</p>
<p>But, here is the issue:</p>
<p>The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of our country. Article II of the Constitution requires the President to be a natural born citizen. Without reciting them here, there appears to be some serious questions raised about whether President Obama was born in the United States or Kenya. We have not checked sources, but there are reports that some witnessed his birth in Kenya.</p>
<p>The President&#39;s campaign staff and then his administration have released and placed on the internet a &#8220;Certificate of Live Birth.&#8221; We do not dispute the validity or correctness of that document as others have tried to do, suggesting the use of computers to alter seals and names. By releasing this document the President agrees that the claims about his status as a natural born citizen is an open, important, public issue.</p>
<p>But, this &#8220;Certificate of Live Birth&#8221; is simply not the best evidence that the President and his administration could offer to lay to rest any doubt about his status as a natural born citizen.</p>
<p>Barack Obama is a lawyer and a graduate of Harvard Law School. All law students study the body of law we call &#8220;Evidence.&#8221; One of the core tenets of American law is the &#8220;best evidence rule&#8221; which requires the production of original, or certified copies, of original document to prove a fact. Abstracts and summaries are not original documents.</p>
<p>The President has offered an abstract (Certificate) of his birth, but not an original birth certificate which would be the best evidence of his birth. We need the best evidence so that it can do what the best evidence is meant to do; dispel the doubts about a fact. We need to see the Birth Certificate. That&#39;s the one that is often handwritten and signed by the doctor.</p>
<p>Lawyers and legal thinkers will, obviously, argue the finer points of the &#8220;Best Evidence Rule&#8221; and its applicability to this matter. But, that misses the point. The notion of &#8220;Best Evidence&#8221; is solidly-grounded in law. This is an important public matter and it seems now that the President has started down the path of offering some evidence (Certificate of Live Birth), he should offer the &#8220;best evidence&#8221; (Original Birth Certificate) which is the source document for his birth. The document behind the document which has been released. This is what is needed now in the court of public knowledge.</p>
<p>The fact in question here is the constitutional qualification of the President of the United States to hold office. With a simple nod, the President could offer the American people the best evidence, the source document(s), as he learned about at Harvard, and dispel those who question his birth as a natural born citizen. His failure to provide this best evidence, when it could be so easily done, raises only more questions, which fuels an ugly public debate.</i></p>
<p>I guess there are some things that not even a journalism school graduate can stomach.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuci78</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-60930</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuci78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=53794#comment-60930</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m talking about Alinsky&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Rules for Radicals&lt;/i&gt; - tactics which have been employed by socialists (&quot;Liberals,&quot; progressives, fascists, Tranzis, &quot;community organizers,&quot; pick any six, they&#039;re all the same buncha weasels) since the &#039;60s - and you&#039;re bouncing back merely to Social Security reform dickerings in 2005?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Aw, c&#039;mon, nehi. You can&#039;t do any better than that?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;Alinsky’s training manual for radical activists, &lt;b&gt;Rules for Radicals&lt;/b&gt;, states that community organizers (called “poverty pimps” by some critics) are primarily agitators, who must “Fan the resentments of the people of a community; fan the latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expression—he must search out controversy and issues… An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontentment [sic]… He knows that values are relative… Truth to him is relative and changing.”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Alinsky’s work also influenced the creation of the “Cloward-Piven Strategy,” named after Columbia University professors Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. Their strategy involves taking action to force deliberate failure in society to foster change toward socialism, by overloading the bureaucracy with impossible demands and lawsuits, holding officials to the extreme letter of the law, etc. The Cloward-Piven method is intended to push society into economic collapse, forcing a fear and resentment of capitalism and making it easier to usher in socialism. The Cloward-Piven strategy is one of the tactics frequently used by community activists and organizers (e.g., storming welfare offices and violently demanding immediate action) to impose intentional strains on the system, and to force the hiring of more government workers than necessary to deal with their ever-increasing demands. Obama may have met and been personally influenced by Cloward and Piven while he attended Columbia.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(( source: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.colony14.net/id41.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.colony14.net/id41.html&lt;/a&gt; ))&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My opinion - and its just my own opinion, not pushed to me from any constitutionalist equivalent of Messiah Central in the daily email messages you &quot;left-wing bloggers&quot; get - is that if Alinsky&#039;s &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rules for Radicals&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt; are going to be worked by the socialists (&quot;Liberals,&quot; assholes, collectivists, communists, etc.), then it&#039;s perfectly fine to work those same rules &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; &quot;Liberals&quot; (progressives, socialists, &quot;poverty pimps,&quot; fascists-in-Birkenstocks, etc.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m currently liking Rule #12:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Okay. Ahem! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;So what is that lying lawyer sonofabitch HIDING, anyway?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You got that, nehi?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m talking about Alinsky&#39;s <i>Rules for Radicals</i> &#8211; tactics which have been employed by socialists (&#8220;Liberals,&#8221; progressives, fascists, Tranzis, &#8220;community organizers,&#8221; pick any six, they&#39;re all the same buncha weasels) since the &#39;60s &#8211; and you&#39;re bouncing back merely to Social Security reform dickerings in 2005?</p>
<p>Aw, c&#39;mon, nehi. You can&#39;t do any better than that?</p>
<p><i>Alinsky’s training manual for radical activists, <b>Rules for Radicals</b>, states that community organizers (called “poverty pimps” by some critics) are primarily agitators, who must “Fan the resentments of the people of a community; fan the latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expression—he must search out controversy and issues… An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontentment [sic]… He knows that values are relative… Truth to him is relative and changing.”</p>
<p>Alinsky’s work also influenced the creation of the “Cloward-Piven Strategy,” named after Columbia University professors Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. Their strategy involves taking action to force deliberate failure in society to foster change toward socialism, by overloading the bureaucracy with impossible demands and lawsuits, holding officials to the extreme letter of the law, etc. The Cloward-Piven method is intended to push society into economic collapse, forcing a fear and resentment of capitalism and making it easier to usher in socialism. The Cloward-Piven strategy is one of the tactics frequently used by community activists and organizers (e.g., storming welfare offices and violently demanding immediate action) to impose intentional strains on the system, and to force the hiring of more government workers than necessary to deal with their ever-increasing demands. Obama may have met and been personally influenced by Cloward and Piven while he attended Columbia.</i></p>
<p>(( source: <a href="http://www.colony14.net/id41.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.colony14.net/id41.html</a> ))</p>
<p>My opinion &#8211; and its just my own opinion, not pushed to me from any constitutionalist equivalent of Messiah Central in the daily email messages you &#8220;left-wing bloggers&#8221; get &#8211; is that if Alinsky&#39;s <i><a href="http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm" rel="nofollow">Rules for Radicals</a></i> are going to be worked by the socialists (&#8220;Liberals,&#8221; assholes, collectivists, communists, etc.), then it&#39;s perfectly fine to work those same rules <b><i>against</i></b> &#8220;Liberals&#8221; (progressives, socialists, &#8220;poverty pimps,&#8221; fascists-in-Birkenstocks, etc.)</p>
<p>I&#39;m currently liking Rule #12:</p>
<p>&#8220;Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay. Ahem! </p>
<p><b><i>So what is that lying lawyer sonofabitch HIDING, anyway?</i></b></p>
<p>You got that, nehi?</p>
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		<title>By: neliberal</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-60921</link>
		<dc:creator>neliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=53794#comment-60921</guid>
		<description>Can you cite where liberals did this (at least in the last two decades)?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve been challenging wingnuts who throw out the ever-present &quot;liberals did it too&quot; excuse, but so far haven&#039;t had a serious reply.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yeah, there was the odd lib who got thrown out of a GOP event. And there were libs who demonstrated outside events. There were even libs who got into GOP events, only to be arrested for wearing pro-Dem T-shirts or for having &quot;Kerry for President&quot; bumperstickers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Earlier I heard some MSM &quot;all are the same&quot; dummy claiming Dems did the same thing over Social Security reform back in 2005...except when challenged he had to admit the Dems politely asked questions, and actually allowed GOPers to answer the questions...unlike the corporate-sponsored teabagger brigade, who literally feel shutting down all conversation is the acceptable goal.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So...same challenge to you...where and when did Dems do this?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;________________________________</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you cite where liberals did this (at least in the last two decades)?</p>
<p>I&#39;ve been challenging wingnuts who throw out the ever-present &#8220;liberals did it too&#8221; excuse, but so far haven&#39;t had a serious reply.</p>
<p>Yeah, there was the odd lib who got thrown out of a GOP event. And there were libs who demonstrated outside events. There were even libs who got into GOP events, only to be arrested for wearing pro-Dem T-shirts or for having &#8220;Kerry for President&#8221; bumperstickers.</p>
<p>Earlier I heard some MSM &#8220;all are the same&#8221; dummy claiming Dems did the same thing over Social Security reform back in 2005&#8230;except when challenged he had to admit the Dems politely asked questions, and actually allowed GOPers to answer the questions&#8230;unlike the corporate-sponsored teabagger brigade, who literally feel shutting down all conversation is the acceptable goal.</p>
<p>So&#8230;same challenge to you&#8230;where and when did Dems do this?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>________________________________</p>
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		<title>By: Snorgy</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-60899</link>
		<dc:creator>Snorgy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=53794#comment-60899</guid>
		<description>Aye. That it is.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But is it really like that show JAG, where the &quot;rules of dating&quot; on ships (now that the laws of physics--buoyancy--confirm the liberall PC wisdom that the modern Navy can handle tons of equipment in addition to pregnant females on board) have things like:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; &quot;&lt;b&gt;Green light&lt;/b&gt;&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(Your mutually agreeable offer, going by the rules as outlined by the proper authorities,  for a hypothetically-oriented relationship is legal, helpful, mutual, wholesome, and you made no sudden moves;  an offer to male shipmate to meet in the closet room and the sex is purely consensual fun)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;Yellow Light&lt;/b&gt;:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(maybe--but don&#039;t move too fast or you get turned in for sexual harassment)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;RED LIGHT&quot;, BUDDY!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;(Don&#039;t even look at me, you pig, and if you ask me to sit with you and eat I&#039;ll turn you in to the properly ordained authorities, as described in Code Section *-9, parts A-H!!!!  HELP!!!!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aye. That it is.</p>
<p>But is it really like that show JAG, where the &#8220;rules of dating&#8221; on ships (now that the laws of physics&#8211;buoyancy&#8211;confirm the liberall PC wisdom that the modern Navy can handle tons of equipment in addition to pregnant females on board) have things like:</p>
<p> &#8220;<b>Green light</b>&#8220;</p>
<p>(Your mutually agreeable offer, going by the rules as outlined by the proper authorities,  for a hypothetically-oriented relationship is legal, helpful, mutual, wholesome, and you made no sudden moves;  an offer to male shipmate to meet in the closet room and the sex is purely consensual fun)</p>
<p><b>Yellow Light</b>:</p>
<p>(maybe&#8211;but don&#39;t move too fast or you get turned in for sexual harassment)</p>
<p>&#8220;RED LIGHT&#8221;, BUDDY!</p>
<p>(Don&#39;t even look at me, you pig, and if you ask me to sit with you and eat I&#39;ll turn you in to the properly ordained authorities, as described in Code Section *-9, parts A-H!!!!  HELP!!!!)</p>
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		<title>By: Tuci78</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-60896</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuci78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=53794#comment-60896</guid>
		<description>Nah. Nowadays, it&#039;s &quot;wall-to-wall counseling,&quot; coffee, and &quot;don&#039;t ask, don&#039;t tell.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Paint&#039;s pretty much the same color, though.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s not just a job. It&#039;s not much of an adventure, either. But - unlike the Army - you&#039;re always guaranteed access to a head, a sit-down mess, and an ocean view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nah. Nowadays, it&#39;s &#8220;wall-to-wall counseling,&#8221; coffee, and &#8220;don&#39;t ask, don&#39;t tell.&#8221;</p>
<p>Paint&#39;s pretty much the same color, though.</p>
<p>It&#39;s not just a job. It&#39;s not much of an adventure, either. But &#8211; unlike the Army &#8211; you&#39;re always guaranteed access to a head, a sit-down mess, and an ocean view.</p>
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		<title>By: Snorgy</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-60886</link>
		<dc:creator>Snorgy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=53794#comment-60886</guid>
		<description>*lol*&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well, sailor, just so long as our set-up here is not the old Brit Navy legacy of &quot;Sodomy, Rum, and the Lash.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I figure we get pleny of that from our &quot;betters&quot; in government--the local Admirals with a Walter Mitty mind on deck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*lol*</p>
<p>Well, sailor, just so long as our set-up here is not the old Brit Navy legacy of &#8220;Sodomy, Rum, and the Lash.&#8221;</p>
<p>I figure we get pleny of that from our &#8220;betters&#8221; in government&#8211;the local Admirals with a Walter Mitty mind on deck.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuci78</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-60844</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuci78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=53794#comment-60844</guid>
		<description>Oh, no Boatswain would have my feathermerchant ass in his deck division, I assure you. Real sailormen have a strong sense of professional pride.  In the sick bay, Boats was fine with me.  When I came out on the deck, he wanted to have somebody following me around with a coil of lifeline just to make sure I didn&#039;t trigger an unplanned &quot;man overboard&quot; drill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, no Boatswain would have my feathermerchant ass in his deck division, I assure you. Real sailormen have a strong sense of professional pride.  In the sick bay, Boats was fine with me.  When I came out on the deck, he wanted to have somebody following me around with a coil of lifeline just to make sure I didn&#39;t trigger an unplanned &#8220;man overboard&#8221; drill.</p>
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		<title>By: Snorgy</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/53794/what-they-call-mob-rule-the-average-american-calls-democracy/comment-page-1#comment-60801</link>
		<dc:creator>Snorgy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 05:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=53794#comment-60801</guid>
		<description>Yes--that was for the viewing pleasure of La-de-dah-Lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes&#8211;that was for the viewing pleasure of La-de-dah-Lee</p>
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