Critics Blast ‘Cash for Clunkers’ $2 Billion Lifeline

[...] Here is the original post:  Critics Blast ‘Cash for Clunkers’ $2 Billion Lifeline [...]

Unless buyer first negotiates price knowing the invoice price, the $4500 rebate could equal what a sharp consumer could negotiate off the sticker price w/o a clunker. So this may in fact ONLY help dealers/car mfgs who take $4500 off the sticker price, NOT the consumer. Also, what prevents junkyard from shipping these cars south of border as often happens, and thus dealer still gets his $4500; junkyard gets couple grand reselling car and emissions keep on coming over the border to US.

[...] Critics blast the “Cash for Clunkers” extra $2 billion without knowing all the facts. What a shock, a knew jerk government reaction with no information. [...]

Washington is just trying to bail out the auto makers,not do the right thing.Your best day you couldn't make me believe that they where doing anything in my best interest.

Cash For Clunkers: A Short Term Success and Limited In Scope.

Program Needs 2 Expand to 2002-2008 Used, Fuel Efficient Cars as well…

For Long Term Effects

http://blog.leasetrader.com/images/blog_leasetr…

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For long Term Effects, the Cash For Clunkers Program Must Expand to 2002-2008 Used, but, Fuel Efficient Cars.

I Went to Sandy Springs Toyota Today to learn about…..

[Cash 4 Clunkers]

Its Very Streamlined.

Limited in Scope.

Has Performed Very Well, Yet Has Big Holes in the Program.

If you Own Big Gas Guzzling Trucks, Vans & SUV's and you want to Rid Yourself of them, this Program is [Ideal] and that's Obviously whose Turning their Cars in and Cashing in on a New Car or Truck.

If you Own a 95 Honda Odyssey & 97 Nissan Sentra like I and My Wife…

You are Out of [Luck]

Found out the Hard Way, Today.

Also Used Car Salesmen at Sandy Springs Toyota, Complain, that they have No Business in their Department, so their Mgr. ask that they participate in the Cars For Clunkers Program, while their 2002-2008 Cars Collect Dust.

Oddly their Cars get Great Gas Mileage as well, but the cars Sold in the Cash For Clunkers Program are Strictly [2009 Only]

The Program is Too Limited and it Needs to be Expanded to Include 2002-2008 used Fuel Efficient Cars as well.

Also the Insurance Coverage for a Full Year, should be [Excluded] because its Not Needed, the Car will be Demolished and the New car will have to be Covered, before you Drive Off The Lot.

All that should be Required is [Certificate of Ownership] and that Ownership is Beyond 2 Years, as well as a Current Tag.

The Program would have a Longer Lasting Effect.

Here we go again. Washington wants to spend more of our tax money, Cash for Clunkers. When is Washington going to wake up. Auto Dealers are doing what they do best. Taking advantage of the law. They will find a way to sell off their own inventories. Some of their inventories are nothing but gas guzzlers. They will take the old clunkers and get $4500 from the tax payer and sell their own high price gas guzzling cllunkers.

Their reputation continues. You can't trust them, just like you can't trust those in Washington.

I say, “Trade in the politicians who are trying to extend this bill, and keep your clunker”.

Consumers who were locked out of the initial $1 billion in funding are hoping that they can get some rules changed when the additional $2 billion is requested. Over 3,000 disgruntled consumers have signed an online petition at http://www.nocashforclunkers.com

What is being done to these “clunkers” – emphasis on the absolute destruction of their engines, the component most valuable in the salvage markets for harvesting and re-use – is the mark of the political and economic malignancy of this hand wave (or should I use the expression “jerk-job”?) in front of the nation's eyes.

The measures imposed upon auto dealers taking these “clunkers” and destroying them to secure the credits associated with this bloody ignominy actually make it a profit-losing proposition for auto salvage yard operators to fetch these engine-wrecked vehicles, transport them to be crushed, and then convey the shredded remnants to processors for smelt-down and extraction.

There is a peculiarly educated malevolence in the crafting of this legislation, and a wonderful stupidity in its implementation.

But, hey, this is politicians and bureaucrats, just fucking everything up as usual.

“I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you.”

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), who said healthcare could be President Obama's Waterloo, said Sunday he thinks Americans will “take to the street” to protest Democratic-led healthcare reform in August.

Now DeMint “Wants Also to Drive Stake into CARS Program”….. If We Can Kill President Obama's programs, we can end his Administration. “Contract to KILL AMERICA” !

“What's going to happen is, you're going to see Americans take to the street in August, and go to their congressmen's office, and they're going to go to town halls, and I think they're going to let congressmen and senators know that they need to keep their hands off their health care,” DeMint said on Fox News Sunday.

Two weeks ago, Democrats jumped on DeMint's claim that stopping healthcare would be akin to Waterloo, renewing accusations that Republicans want the country to fail. President Obama even mentioned DeMint's comments in a prime time press conference.

I have a 95 Honda with 220K miles on it, yet I can not qualify for this program.
Yes my friend was able to get with his 2000 Mercury.
I find this is a great program but it needs some modification.

Just what we need more people getting into more debt. The American People better stand up and fight for our country or what is left of it. The Government has a hollow leg its called the tax payers wallet. What the hell is this country going to look like in a couple of years? Oh thats right we won't have a country China will have it all.

Ok, China gets all the recycled steel from the “clunker” deal just like they got all the steel from 9/11. Hmmm. No conspiracy there, Just Geithner throwing his Asian homies some kickback to offset toxic US treasuries.

Nothing personal, just business folks.

[...] “Critics Blast ‘Cash for Clunkers $2 Billion Dollar Lifeline” by Mike Lillis, The Washington Independant. 7/31/09. http://washingtonindependent.com/53487/critics-blast-cash-for-clunkers-2-billion-lifeline [...]

Come to think of it, why stop with cars??

Instead of giving our slightly used clothes to Goodwill, the Red Cross or the Salvation Army, let's cut them up and throw them away (cutting them up insures that some enterprising person can't salvage them from the trash and attempt to sell them for a profit… can't have that!).

Then, the gov't can send out lots and lots of Cash for Clothes checks!

That should stimulate all sorts of jobs in the otherwise defunct U.S. garment industry (money can only be spent on clothes that are made in the U.S. of course, good luck finding those!).

Moving on, let's open every can of food in our pantries and grind-up the food in the disposal!

No need to donate to a soup kitchen or food bank!

The gov't can send out Cash for Cans (cans of food that is).

That should really help the farmers (and fisherman if you include tuna and sardines!!). Presto, agriculture is back!

And of course, the next step would be houses. Instead of letting someone buy a foreclosed house for a low price that they can afford, let's bulldoze every vacant house in America!

Then, the gov't can send out Cash for Condos!

Imagine the construction jobs we'll “create”!! (btw, they are already doing that with the $8K tax credit)

Wait, there's more! How about tearing up all of the perfectly good roads!?! Rebuilding those could keep people employed for the next couple of decades!!

Wow, this is easy! Just destroy, destroy, destroy and pay for brand new stuff with other people's money (or borrow more $$ from our friends in China).

So glad that someone as smart as Obama, Schumer, Pelosi and Reid (and Frank, don't forget Frank) finally figured out how to fix our economy.

We are in SUCH good hands.

Not.

Grab your ankles America. Your gonna get with no lube.

Right on Painesright- Why stop with cars? Don't worry next week it will be something else. Come on People WAKE THE HELL UP!!!

Here's another curveball for you….. (and google this please) dealers are pushing off their trade-in “clunkers” from their overly packed lots into the scrap heap under the “Cash-4-Clunkers” scam. So a dealer has…. lets say, 10 'clunkers' that they got at a $2000 trade-in cost, “C4C” it for $4500 each…BOOP…. you got a $25,000 profit. The funds didn't get depleted so quickly strictly from consumer demand, dealerships are bolstering their balance sheets with this scam. So let me say this loud and clear “STEALERSHIPS ARE USING THE PROGRAM TO SYPHON FUNDS FROM THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER SINCE WE DIDN'T BUY THEIR CRAPPY CARS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!” Now this is some damn good change I can believe in :-P

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i would like to see cash 4 canoes! that would be a worth while stim-bill!

[...] just sent out some updated figures on the vehicles being scrapped and purchased under the popular cash for clunkers program, which provides up to $4,500 in cash to drivers who trade their gas guzzlers for more efficient [...]

[...] House last Fri­day pro­vided the gen­er­ous life­line to the wildly pop­u­lar clunk­ers pro­gram — which grants dri­vers up to $4,500 to scrap [...]

Say what you will, this is a good thing. It is better than just giving cash to people. I used the site http://WWW.SLICKBUDGET.COM/CASH4CLUNKERS.HTML to get an informed decision on what car to get and it saved me thousands. I ended up getting a Nissan Ultima Hybrid. This saved me $4500 for the clunkers + $2400 in hybrid tax credit + $2000 from the dealer + $3500 from Nissan! That is $12400 off the sticker of $27300 to get me a mid size hybrid that gets 35 MPG for $14900!!! Are you kidding me? AND it has the 100000 mile warranty on the battery.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. If you take a clunker that gets less miles per gallon and doesn't have the new emissions on it to help reduce pollution off the road then you are contributing to global warming and air pollution and using more fuel. Most people who are driving these vehicles would not have a chance, if not for this program, to get a better vehicle. So I think the people who are opposing this bill must be getting funding from the large oil companies.

No, sorry. Not so. Anthropogenic (man-made) global warming is a myth accepted entirely upon religious grounds. Good science demonstrates this. The single most important determinant of global heating or cooling is the degree of insolation – the amount of radiant energy put out by the sun – with which global temperature is directly related.

When cosmic rays – the ubiquitous background radiation that even includes the last remnants of very-low frequency radiation from the Big Bang – strike the earth, the cause clouds to form. This increases the earth's albedo (reflectiveness) and causes solar radiation in those frequencies that warm the planet to be reflected into space.

When the solar fusion cycle is operating (and that cycle varies in intensity with sunspot activity, so it's quite easy to track), it discharges particles as well as electromagnetic radiation, creating what is called the “solar wind.” When this solar wind sweeps 'round the earth (to some extent deflected by earth's magnetic field), it interferes with the levels of cosmic radiation reaching the upper levels of our atmosphere, and this reduces cloud formation.

Increased solar fusion intensity, decreased cosmic irradiation, less clouding in the atmosphere, greater warmth on the planet's surface.

What human beings do in increasing atmospheric CO2 and other greenhouse elements of the atmosphere is simply not worth considering. As a matter of fact, atmospheric CO2 levels do, indeed, vary with global warming.

Increased atmospheric CO2 lags behind global warming by an interval of about 800 years. Such increases in atmospheric CO2 are the result of the warming, not the cause. The largest reservoir of CO2 on the planet is that which is dissolved in ocean water. The water warms, and Boyle's law kicks in. The oceans cannot keep their hold on dissolved gases – including CO2 – and after about eight centuries of constant warming, significant increases in atmospheric CO2 are seen.

I repeat, increases in levels of atmospheric CO2 are an effect of global warming – entirely nonanthropogenic global warming – not a cause.

See http://www.climatedepot.com/ for additional information on this and other phenomena pertinent to “global warming.”

“It doesn't take a rocker scientist to figure it out.” It merely takes literacy in science and in the scientific method.

Which Algore and his chipmunks don't got.

Well you didn't address the problems of air pollution and fuel consumption,
so is that due to lack of knowledge on the subject or based on religious
principles.

Fuel consumption is a solved problem, for the stores of petrochemicals capable of being processed cost-effectively into fuel (diesel or gasoline) is effectively inexhaustable. Non-biogenic petroleum has been flowing out of Russian oil fields for decades. The extraction of petrochemical feedstocks from oil-bearing shale has simply been obstructed by Watermelons (“green on the outside, red to the core) and the Oil Patch “Old Buddy System.”

And then there's thermal depolymerization, a technology that is proven safe, efficient, and cost-effective, in which organic trash (plastics, kitchen garbage, old tires, even slaughterhouse offal) can be processed into the equivalent of light, sweet (low-sulfur) crude oil. Instead of going into the landfills, our refuse gets “cracked” to make more fuel to heat our homes and enable us to drive those obscenely large (and more comfortable, more capacious, and more comfortable) SUVs from now until long after Algore is no more than the sort of lingering memory that a dog's fart leaves behind.

And air pollution? Haven't you already noticed that – in our country – it's a solved problem? Let the Chinese Communists buy (or, more likely, bribe a Clinton to steal for them) the technologies we use, and implement it.

What other problems do you want me to address, putzie? Your “lack of knowledge on the subject” seems so cavernous that even beginning to fill it is like trying to stabilize the San Andreas fault.

Cash for Clunkers – the unintended consequences.

The government is giving up to 4500 to people to trade in their used low-mileage car provided that A. the old car gets worse gas mileage, B. the car is pre-2001 and C. the car being purchased is brand new.

On the surface this may look like a good idea, after all, we will get a good deal on new cars, there will be less poor-mileage cars on the road, and maybe the environment will be helped.

However, lets look at all of the consequences of this program and then decide.

There is a canard that states that if you break a glass window you are helping the economy because a window maker and a window installer must be employed now to replace it. This is absolutely not true, as the glass window (as it sits) is part of our wealth and it represents one less window that we need to buy and install, one more clean, good, window that we already have. To take it away means to take away part of our wealth. Since we dont have to replace it, we can use the money to do other things. It is inexcusable for politicians to believe or put forward this fallacy, let alone anybody over 20 years old. The used cars that are traded-in as part of this program are required to be destroyed. Thus, this program will destroy all of that wealth – thousands of dollars per car, while adding a new burden onto the taxpayers.

Another consequence of this program is that it will remove used cars from the market-place. If there is less of a supply of used cars, who gets hurt in the process? obviously the poor as it is the poor that usually buys these cars. This will obviously put artificial upward pressure on the price of used cars as now it may not pay – for many people – to sell a car for much less than 4500. Now, poor people who used to be able to buy a car for between 500 and 3000, will not be able to, or they will have to pay more.

Still, proponents will say, it helps the environment. Maybe yes, maybe no, as to build a new car also contributes pollution to the environment. However, even if this point were partially conceded, we have just introduced a new tax for the environment on the backs of the taxpayers and the poor, and one which detracts from our collective wealth, all under the guise of helping people buy a new car. If most people looked past the “free government giveaway” and became aware of the huge amount of wealth that is being destroyed, they would be outraged, not only at the waste but the deceptiveness of this program.

I am outraged that politicians are not aware of these consequences or worse, are aware of these consequence but decide that helping the environment is more important than helping the poor people which they claim to be in favor of. When the masses elect these people to grant entitlements, it is often said of them that they become wards of the state, helpless and waiting for hand-outs. Now, as wards of the state, they are at the mercy of decisions of politicians who hold their fate in their hands, the politicians are now are placing their high minded environmentalist ambitions ahead of them. Some may have gotten handouts – well “la-dee-frikin’ da” – but we all have been made poorer because our leaders, i.e., pelosi and boxer, being made far too powerful, have decided that they would rather help the environment.

Fuel consumption is a solved problem, for the stores of petrochemicals capable of being processed cost-effectively into fuel (diesel or gasoline) is effectively inexhaustable. Non-biogenic petroleum has been flowing out of Russian oil fields for decades. The extraction of petrochemical feedstocks from oil-bearing shale has simply been obstructed by Watermelons (“green on the outside, red to the core) and the Oil Patch “Old Buddy System.”

And then there's thermal depolymerization, a technology that is proven safe, efficient, and cost-effective, in which organic trash (plastics, kitchen garbage, old tires, even slaughterhouse offal) can be processed into the equivalent of light, sweet (low-sulfur) crude oil. Instead of going into the landfills, our refuse gets “cracked” to make more fuel to heat our homes and enable us to drive those obscenely large (and more comfortable, more capacious, and more comfortable) SUVs from now until long after Algore is no more than the sort of lingering memory that a dog's fart leaves behind.

And air pollution? Haven't you already noticed that – in our country – it's a solved problem? Let the Chinese Communists buy (or, more likely, bribe a Clinton to steal for them) the technologies we use, and implement it.

What other problems do you want me to address, putzie? Your “lack of knowledge on the subject” seems so cavernous that even beginning to fill it is like trying to stabilize the San Andreas fault.

Bastiat's parable of the broken window from “TThat Which Is Seen, and That Which Is Not Seen.” Neat.

The deliberate and immediate destruction of the “clunker” cars' engines – which must be done at the dealership – is perhaps the most malicious single element. Boneyard operators charged with the responsibility to haul these cars off the dealers' lots and complete their destruction have said that they cannot come close to breaking even between their operational costs and what they can salvage from these destroyed cars, for the engine is the single most valuable component of all scrapped motor vehicles, yielding elements that can either be re-used “as is” or remanufactured for the resale market.

But not when they're utterly savaged in the manner prescribed by “Cash for Clunkers.”

With nothing you have written above do I disagree in any way. These “public servants” who fancy themselves our civil masters are forcing upon us all that is hateful and wasteful and destructive, and they're doing it – damn them – at our own expense.

And air pollution? Haven't you already noticed that – in our country – it's a solved problem? Let the Chinese Communists buy (or, more likely, bribe a Clinton to steal for them) the technologies we use, and implement it.

i know for a fact that when a volcano erupts – such the one from Island, the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere is equal with the amount of CO2 produced worldwide in 20 years. So, there are problems, but let''s not exaggerate.

Here we go again. Washington wants to spend more of our tax money, Cash for Clunkers. When is Washington going to wake up. Auto Dealers are doing what they do best. Taking advantage of the law. They will find a way to sell off their own inventories. Some of their inventories are nothing but gas guzzlers. They will take the old clunkers and get $4500 from the tax payer and sell their own high price gas guzzling clunkers.

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