Andrew McCarthy Embarrasses National Review

[...] H/T: Dave Weigel@ The Washington Independent [...]

[...] Andy McCarthy at the NRO has a 3,700 word piece on… Obama’s birth certificate. [...]

that the full state records would probably show Obama was adopted by the Indonesian Muslim Lolo Soetoro and became formally known as “Barry Soetoro.”

At birth, Gerald Ford was named Leslie King Jr. At birth, Bill Clinton was William Jefferson Blythe III. If Obama was named Soetoro at some point during his childhood, when he was in no position to decide for himself what to be called, so freakin' what?

McCarthy was pushing the birth certificate nonsense during the election, along with a host of other wingnut theories (William Ayers really wrote Obama's books, Whitey tape, etc.). One attempt at face-saving the NRO does not change the fact that they are more than happy to print whatever nutter garbage they come across (Larry Johnson and Pam Geller are favorite links for McCarthy).

With pinheads like Larry Johnson around no wonder the CIA has such a mixed record over the last forty years.

There is a school card in existence showing Obama with surname 'Soetoro', nationality 'Indonesian' and religion 'Muslim'. There are reasons why his step-father would have taken these steps, Indonesia was in a period of ethnic, political and religious turmoil where it wouldn't have been necessarily safe for a little American kid to be known as such. BUT NONE OF THAT MATTERS. What matters is the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 which states:

“From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by — (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as the result of naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday:”

There is substantial doubt that Soetoro formally adopted Obama in the first place, but as long as Barack or Barry or whatever he may have been called as a kid relocated to the U.S. prior to the age of 25 he retains or regains depending on how you like it his U.S. Citizenship.

Children are not competent to renounce their citizenship and U.S. courts are not bound by decisions of foreign courts as to issues of U.S. citizenship. You could have a foot high stack of documentation from Indonesian immigration, passport, and Census documents showing an Indonesian citizen Barack Soetoro with the picture of a little kid waving his identity papers and none of that would matter. If Obama was born in Hawaii he is a natural born citizen (no matter what crazy ideas Orly has) and if he returned to the U.S.to establish residence prior to his 25th birthday no act by his mother or step-father prior to that means anything at all.

Obama is by birth and under appropriate law a natural born citizen of the U.S. And it doesn't matter what increasingly nutty LarryJohnson claims.

Yes but researchers have found that Hawaii was never properly admitted into the Union and therefore is still a territory.

If that's true then we have a lot bigger problems than whether or not Obama is the sitting President. There's 2 illegal Senators and 2 illegal congressmen that have been passing laws in this country for the last 50 years. Do we then declare that all the laws passed in that time are not legitimate.

This means we have to go back to segregated schools. Oh My!

Any magazine that would willingly publish K-Lo, Ed Whelan, Jonah Goldberg, Mark Steyn and Rich Lowry is incapable of embarrassment.

[...] Andrew McCarthy Embarrasses National Review | The Washington … By David Weigel At birth, Gerald Ford was named Leslie King Jr. At birth, Bill Clinton was William Jefferson Blythe III. If Obama was named Soetoro at some point during his childhood, when he was in no position to decide for himself what to be called, … The Washington Independent »… – http://washingtonindependent.com/ [...]

Puma sore losers are worse than GOP sore losers

[...] Excerpt from: Andrew McCarthy Embarrasses National Review | The Washington … [...]

If Obama needs to prove he is a US citizen,then I would like Rush to prove that he is not a child molester.

Given that the Constitution provides for only three requirements for eligibility for the Presidency, and that no legislation has ever been passed requiring that a candidate actually demonstrate that he meets the constitutional requirements, isn't the final judge of a candidate's qualification for the Presidency the Electoral College? As. . . imperfect a solution as that might be?

Years ago in Florida I had friends who were on crystal meth for a few months. They would do things like obsessively clean their chess pieces or car, on and on, long past any sensible point. Andy's reminding me of them.

Hey, that article by McCarthy was pretty good. Thanks for the reference, Mr. Weigel. I'm not much of a National Review reader. Gave it up when they refused to quit whoring for Nixon after he suddenly slammed the gold window shut.

So have they thrown you off the staff of Reason magazine yet, Dave?

rEVOLution!

If necessary, bug-boy. Sure.

–
“The trouble is with socialism, which resembles a form of mental illness more than it does a philosophy. Socialists get bees in their bonnets. And because they chronically lack any critical faculty to examine and evaluate their ideas, and because they are pathologically unwilling to consider the opinions of others, and most of all, because socialism is a mindset that regards the individual — and his rights — as insignificant, compared to whatever the socialist believes the group needs, terrible, terrible things happen when socialists acquire power.“

– L. Neil Smith, “Cambodian Road Trip“

Until Congress finds the same and lets the State of Hawaii go, who gives a sh!t what “researchers” say?

You silly silly man. So what you ask? I'll tell you what: Bill Clinton and Gerald Ford aren't scary black men. That's what.

There is a school card in existence showing Obama with surname 'Soetoro', nationality 'Indonesian' and religion 'Muslim'. – bruce_webb

Just to add to what bruce_webb wrote: that “card” (an application form for admission to school and dated 1968) also lists Barry Soetoro's place of birth as Honolulu / date of birth 1961.

more here, including photo of document (assuming its not a forgery)

*

There is a school card in existence showing Obama with surname 'Soetoro', nationality 'Indonesian' and religion 'Muslim'. – bruce_webb

Just to add to what bruce_webb wrote: that “card” (an application form for admission to school and dated 1968) also lists Barry Soetoro's place of birth as Honolulu / date of birth 1961.

more here, including photo of document (assuming its not a forgery)

*

Having served in the Marines during Nam, on active duty during Desert Storm and as an old grunt at Operation Iraqi Freedom I feel betrayed we have an illegal-alien in the Whitehouse. What a kick in the teeth. Baby Barack was a dual-citizen at best and lost that status when he became Indonesian Barry Soetoro. What a crock this presidency is. The man is guilty of High Treason and both Howard Dean & Hellary know it. After the citizenship questions McCain faced you would think he would be an outspoken birther but he doesn't want to appear the sore loser. I wish legal scholars like Robert Bork & Phyllis Schlafley would weigh-in on this issue. -Gunny Red

I recently commented on Larry Johnson's blog asking him where the Michelle Obama “whitey” tape was. He e-mailed me back with “In your ass?”

I forgot that he said it was the John McCain presidential campaign that is responsible for keeping the tape from the public.

These are people who say Obama is a terrorist, not American, even Satan, and yet we're supposed to believe they're above releasing a video tape.

Larry really wishes people would forget about this rumor he started. But I don't forget and I will keep asking him where the tape is.

Before making any judgements about Obama being a usurper people should read Pat Boone's editorial about truth and see Farah's movie “A Question of Eligibility” with an open mind.

Red, here are some things you need to read with open mind.

14th Amendment.

SCOTUS decision on “United States V Wong Kim Ark.”

World Net Daily Aug 23, 2008:
“A separate WND investigation into Obama's certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.”

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageI…

You said: “Baby Barack was a dual-citizen at best and lost that status when he became Indonesian Barry Soetoro.”

Uh Red, Obama can be adopted by the royal family of England when he was a kid and he's STILL A US CITIZEN, you know why?

BECAUSE MINORS CAN'T LOSE THEIR US CITIZENSHIP.

“I wish legal scholars like Robert Bork & Phyllis Schlafley would weigh-in on this issue.”

SCOTUS already “weigh in” IMO with their decision on “United States V Wong Kim Ark.”

Gee, I don't suppose it would be enough for Larry Johnson – much less Andy McCarthy – that the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security have specifically DENIED that Barack Obama was ever adopted by Lolo Soetoro.

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/04/departme…

Remember that the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure require that a denial made in these circumstances be made in good faith and supported by evidence. They are a matter of empty form.

Correction: They are NOT a matter of empty form.

What Obama is hiding is that he was born a dual-citizen at best & his Kenyan father was biracial(part Arab which is caucazoid). The age of majority in the U.S. in 1961 was 21yr & his mother had to be at least 19 to grant natural-born status(she was 18). Too bad he gave up any U.S. citizenship when he was adopted by his flakey mother's 2nd husband & became Indonesian Barry Soetoro. Grandma & Grandpa Dunham in Hawaii eventually got saddled with the little reject and made lemonade. Then he apparently attended three colleges in the U.S as a foreign student or do you think he is just hiding poor grades. Don't you wonder who payed for his college? They were not the kind of schools most people can pay for. Please explain.

And I hereby say they are liars too.

Gunny, I don't think that Barry Soetoro ever tried to hide his “dual-citizen” status. He couldn't claim his alleged biological father's Arab/Luo name in any other way. As for whether he “gave up” any kind of U.S. citizenship (naturalized or otherwise) when adopted by Lolo Soetoro in Indonesia, despite the fact that Indonesian law then made it quite difficult for a child of foreign nationality to enter a primary school funded by the Indonesian government, Indonesia then (as now) is a land of horrendous government corruption, and it might have been easy for Barry's mother and step-father to bribe an official into accepting a phony assertion that the youngster was, in fact, an Indonesian citizen.

As you should know from your experience in Southeast Asia, people in that corner of the world do not have the same relationships with (or attitudes toward) the officers of their governments as we do in this, a rule-of-law country.

But you're correct in focusing your attention on Barry's “sealed” and therefore hidden academic records at Occidental College, Columbia University, and Harvard Law. Beyond what might be revealed of what we'll laughingly call his “character,” it would be very good to learn how the hell he paid for all this expensive education. The Dunham family was a hair above “poor white trash,” and he sure as hell got no help from his alcoholic biological father or Lolo Soetoro.

In his financial statements submitted when he'd come up to Washington City from Springfield four years ago, Barry Soetoro made no mention of any indebtedness he had EVER incurred. None whatsoever. And yet he and Michelle have made noises about the heavy burden of educational debt out from under which they had had to work themselves, statements made to “humanize” these two shysters and make it seem that they'd grown up “middle class.”

Might could be those academic records could prove conclusively that Barry had lied his narrow ass off in his statements to the U.S. Senate – and the statute of limitations on that crime has not yet run.

McCarthy's piece was excellent, and the embarrassment should be on all of the so-called journalists that are running from their responsibilities because they are afraid of Bill Maher and Robert Gibbs calling them crazy nutjobs. That's embarrassing. What are you people so afraid of, anyway? The truth shall set you free. Anything that is found, you'll have the chance to refute. Just relax, and stop trying to stonewall the investigation with your smears. It's lame.

[...] Andrew McCarthy Embarrasses National Review | The Washington … [...]

Bill Maher and Robert Gibbs? How did you make THAT connection, sugartits?

Damn. So much racism, so few brains.

Posting the same thing over and over will not make it so, poppy.

You are still bugfuck nuts.

Bingo!

@ Michelle:

“McCarthy's piece was excellent”

Thank you for admitting that you're a bottom feeder. “Excellent”? Where were you during my high school years? I mean, if your bar for excellence is that low, you would have given up that ass to me easily.

“That's embarrassing.”

What's “embarrassing” is glass lickers like yourself believing soundly debunked conspiracy theories. But we both know that its not really a conspiracy theory, its racism – plain and simple.

The problem that “anti-birthers” have with the birther movement is that the birther movement is making accusations without evidence. There's not even a consistent “Theory of the Facts” from the birthers, much less even weighable evidence. I'm not saying conspiracy theorists should need a “preponderance of the evidence”, but I'd like to see at least something that casts reasonable doubt on Obama's birthplace. Some kind of positive evidence on the birther side, for instance.

Nah. I know the guy, sure. Met him in ’88 at a convention. And while he’s not altogether pure-quill libertarian, he’s about as close as it’s possible to get and still stomach caucusing with Republicans.

Besides, insect-boy, what is it about “professional courtesy” that escapes your appreciation?

I reserve professional courtesy for professionals, not nutters who should have their web privileges revoked by the mental hospital staff.

I think the key part of the article is the strange lies of Barack Obama:

“As the website Sweetness & Light details, [the story of his first job in his autobiography] is bunk. Obama did not work at “a consulting house to multinational corporations”; it was, a then-colleague of his has related, “a small company that published newsletters on international business.” He wasn’t the only black man in the company, and he didn’t have an office, have a secretary, wear a suit and tie on the job, or conduct “interviews” with “Japanese financiers or German bond traders” — he was a junior copyeditor.

“What’s unnerving about this is that it is so gratuitous. It would have made no difference to anyone curious about Obama’s life that he, like most of us, took a ho-hum entry-level job to establish himself. But Obama lies about the small things, the inconsequential things, just as he does about the important ones — depending on what he is trying to accomplish at any given time.”

There was blood on the saddle and blood all around
And a great big puddle of blood on the ground

A cowboy lay in it all covered with gore
And he never will ride any broncos no more

Oh, pity the cowboy, all bloody and red
For the bronco fell on him and bashed in his head

There was blood on the saddle and blood all around
And a great big puddle of blood on the ground

Well, there's blood in the water. Can't you all just smell it?

“What Obama is hiding is that he was born a dual-citizen”

That's unimportant. If you're born an American citizen, you're an American citizen. Under US law, it doesn't matter if Britain also claimed him as a citizen. It would have mattered if he chose to renounce his US citizenship and affirmed the British citizenship sometime between when he was 18 (eligible to renounce US citizenship) and 21 (lost British citizenship), but there's no evidence that that transpired (AFAIK, no evidence he ever went to Britain when that age).

“Too bad he gave up any U.S. citizenship when he was adopted by his flakey mother's 2nd husband & became Indonesian Barry Soetoro”

According to the law, in order to give up your citizenship status, you have to file official forms yourself at a US embassy in a foreign country renouncing your citizenship. And you have to be 18+ to do it – your parents can't do it for you. Even if Mr. Soetoro officially adopted him and made him an Indonesian citizen, he wouldn't have lost his US citizenship.

“The age of majority in the U.S. in 1961 was 21yr & his mother had to be at least 19 to grant natural-born status(she was 18).”

Voting age was 21, but that's not exactly the same as age of majority (which is inapplicable here anyways). And his mother's age is only relevant if he was born outside the US. If she were 19*, he'd be a US citizen even if he were born in Kenya. Since she was 18, he'd have to be born in the US to have citizenship.

“Then he apparently attended three colleges in the U.S as a foreign student or do you think he is just hiding poor grades”

He attended Occidental (a small school in California), and then transferred after 2 years to Columbia (an Ivy). One does not transfer to an Ivy because one was struggling with the curriculum at a small liberal arts school. He was editor and president of the Harvard Law Review. One does not become editor of the Harvard Law Review if you're failing out of multiple colleges.

“Don't you wonder who payed for his college? They were not the kind of schools most people can pay for. Please explain”

The Obamas had student loans that they were making payments on up until his book sales took off in 2004-2007. Obama made several million dollars off of “Dreams from my Father” and “Audacity of Hope” and their audiobooks after he came onto the national scene in 2004. Prior to that, both Obamas were working well-paying jobs and paying down those loans.

* – Strictly speaking, the requirement is slightly more complex, in that it's “lived in the US for 5 years after turning 14″ (non-consecutively).

You are a low-life, waste of protoplasm, piece of shit. Aren't you? Say something relevant or go spew you fucking “racism” non-point on KOS where all you twisted fucking lib-monkeys have your pooh-flinging masturbation sessions. I'm really looking forward to the coming civil conflagration so that we can clean house. People like you can best serve the planet as fertilizer. Michelle didn't say anything even remotely “racist”. She just said something you don't want to hear so you called her “racist”. Stupid fuck. You want some “racism”? We'll give you some.

Strictly speaking, challenges to eligibility are not the responsibility of the Electoral College, but of the Congress. On the first day of the Congressional term following a Presidential election, the President of the Senate counts the Electoral College votes before a joint session of Congress, and certifies a winner. A Congressman and a Senator at this time would file an objection to the certification, and Congress would have it out in some complex manner that absolutely no-one aside from the parliamentarian probably understands (there's a pile of applicable legislation, Roberts Rules of Order, and the Constitution that all sort of interlock), but that ends in a vote on the challenge.

Has anyone yet explored the possibility that Barack Hussein Obama was hatched by a large bird, say a cassowary or an emu (and was never actually born at all)? For a man so bent on turning the United States into North Korea, it seems unlikely that his birth was the least bit natural, at least by American standards. Either he's actually a space alien or he's a cleverly-deployed Russian space probe originally targeted for the surface of Venus but reprogrammed more recently to take down the center of Godly capitalism from the inside. Too bad the location of the kill switch was lost with the fall of the Soviet regime.

“these two shysters” ?!?!

Now they're Jewish, also?

Jewish, Arab/Caucazoid (wtf?) Muslim commie

you guys are goddamn crazy

and I'm loving watching your meltdown

I'm not sure if you're serious or not. If you are serious:

1) It likely doesn't matter, since the government has treated Hawaii as a state for so long, contract law dictates that technicalities in these instances get forgiven, especially if neither side has a major issue. If Hawaii was in open rebellion and not fulfilling its duties as a state, or if the US was somehow denying it statehood benefits, there would be a case.

2) That UN regulation can't undo Hawaii becoming a state. Potentially, it could have opened the US up to some sort of sanctions internationally, but it doesn't step in and nullify US law.

3) If the vote is thrown out, then Hawaii becomes a US territory. Anyone born in a US territory is a US citizen.

So you seem a bit angry. Why is that?

[...] through editing unscathed is beyond me (Did no one think to mention that one of his primary sources is the crazed purveyor of the infamous Michelle Obama ‘whitey’ tapes?), but what’s even more bizarre is the reaction he’s elicited from several other [...]

You are amusing.

And you’re a “professional” precisely…how, arthropod?

Sure, Dr. Paul is an OB/GYN, and I’m a “primary care provider.” Were we working in the same hospital, he’d be sitting way to hellangone across the room from me – with the other cutters – in the medical staff meetings, but he’s a physician and I’m a physician, and therefore of the same profession.

Er, you got some kind of “professional” status, bug-boy?

Not the kind of “professional” to which we refer when the prostitutes – or is the PC term “sex workers” now? – come into the clinic, are you?

And you’re a “professional” precisely…how, arthropod?

Sure, Dr. Paul is an OB/GYN, and I’m a “primary care provider.” Were we working in the same hospital, he’d be sitting way to hellangone across the room from me – with the other cutters – in the medical staff meetings, but he’s a physician and I’m a physician, and therefore of the same profession.

Er, you got some kind of “professional” status, bug-boy?

Not the kind of “professional” to which we refer when the prostitutes – or is the PC term “sex workers” now? – come into the clinic, are you?

Well, tell that to stevie, wouldja? The poor little prick seems to be about six millimeters of systolic blood pressure short of blowing himself a brain aneurysm whenever he reads anything I post.

Well, tell that to stevie, wouldja? The poor little prick seems to be about six millimeters of systolic blood pressure short of blowing himself a brain aneurysm whenever he reads anything I post.

Of course neither Andy, nor the S&L folks, can be bothered to verify any of these stories. But hey, they make for good trashing!

I can smell something, but I think it's just you. Crazy people like to spread feces on themselves, I've heard.

See, if you are going to claim someone is lying, you should provide some evidence. Sweetness & Light just makes shit up as they go along. Unconvincing, to say the least.

I knew you were a Paulbot.

You want some “racism”? We'll give you some.

We know. You're supply is endless.

Wow, so much crazy in one comment.

By the way, don't you wonder how ANY middle class kid can attend an Ivy League college? Why not? It happens every day.

Of course you do. Your little world is shrinking by the minute, eh?

you said: “I'd like to see at least something that casts reasonable doubt on Obama's birthplace.”
You tell me his birthplace (hospital with doctor or home with midwife) and I'll try my best to do what you ask. He first said Queen's Medical Center and that was reported by several media outlets as fact. Later, he said Kapiolani and several media outlets reported that as fact. The earlier media outlets changed the wording of stories that were months old. I have a screenshot. I sent one to WND. He, nor either of these hospitals, will confirm or deny his birth there. There is no privacy law violated in denying something. I've been following this for about 18 months. I first got started by just trying to investigate a new and unknown (to me) candidate in the primary.

What, you have no appreciation for poetry? The end is near for you losers. Then, we'll show you CRAZY. You piece of shit.

Yes, I get angry when “people” like this “HumanityCritic” thing and the “Mantis” turd fondler just attack people like “Michelle” for posting some opinion they don't happen to agree with. And making references to her being sexually permissive with idiotic and abusive statements like “you would have given up that ass to me easily.” , or just calling her a “racist”. But that is the way Obama supporters nearly always tend to act and I'm just sick of it. They can't stand the fact that everyone doesn't worship HIM and even have the temerity to question HIS eligibility to hold HIS office. They just attack with personal insults and never address facts or answer with any kind of intelligent or logical response. So I hand it right back to them. Interesting to note that the more that comes out about his questionable past, the more intensely the Obots attack. They know they are losing this battle.

The end is near for you losers.

Crazy people are always predicting the annihilation of their perceived (or imagined) enemies. Never seems to happen though. Funny, that.

Then, we'll show you CRAZY.

Wait, you birthers have been holding off on the crazy? Let 'er rip, fella!

Here you go. This is Dr. Manning, a (black) African-American church pastor from NYC explaining how Obama's deceptions and his supporters in his deceptions are pushing a lot of people into feeling racially antagonized to the point of actually reaching a breaking point. And then what do you think will happen. Go watch this clip on youtube. Tell me if Rev. Manning is also a “racist”. I suppose most of the people in Kenya are also “racists” because the share in the “birther” belief that Obama is not US natural born but rather, he was Kenya born. Birther = Racist. RIght?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hFiab7fjak

They just attack with personal insults and never address facts

The facts have been addressed ad nauseam, but your mental deficiencies prevent you from existing in reality with the rest of us.

They know they are losing this battle.

This is a battle? I was just killing time making fun of nutters.

“You tell me his birthplace (hospital with doctor or home with midwife) and I'll try my best to do what you ask”

Closest thing I've seen to a definite answer on the doctor is:

Aug. 4, 1961, at Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu. Dr. Rodney T. West. http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html

Let's be clear here: There's no positive evidence to suggest that Obama wasn't born in Honolulu. What hospital and what doctor doesn't really matter, because all parts of Honolulu in 1961 belonged to the US. To make the claim that Obama is not an American citizen, one must present evidence he was born outside the United States.

Reasonable doubt as to which hospital or doctor demonstrates nothing, especially since the average American doesn't know that information, and Obama can't exactly ask his parents.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I'm just saying that we've heard a lot of “there's no definitive proof Obama's an American”, and nothing that proves he isn't. I see the standard of proof for Obama's citizenship as “reasonable doubt”, not “laws of the universe level of certainty”.

“There is no privacy law violated in denying something”

“no comment” is frequently a hospital's answer about past medical service to a patient, simply because that's easier and absolutely risk-free in terms of legality. It also saves time for the PR guy who has to answer those questions.

Yeah, speaking of crazy. You are just like a shit-house rat. Did you ever try to come up with a good reason why your Main Man can't cough up some REAL evidence for his identity? Or do you always just hurl insults, hoping that will somehow make a point? The truth will come out, no matter how much you scream, curse, insult and spew your shit. Get used to it!!

He first said Queen's Medical Center and that was reported by several media outlets as fact.

No he didn't. One inaccurate news article from a High School Newspaper reported that, and it was repeated by others (and then corrected by many). They were wrong, but they didn't get it from Obama. He never said any such thing.

“The facts have been addressed ad nauseam”

Ad nauseam's right! The real birth record, if it exists, is still locked up in the vault and Obama plans to keep it there as long as he can. But that is fine because we're such nutters, we'll just keep making waves till something is seen and something is done. Oh, yes, the more the MSM (New Pravda) tries to pooh, pooh this thing away, the more people get suspicious of Obama. His ratings drop more with each round of this deception cover-up. You are losing. It is only a matter of time before the whole stinking shit pile hits the fan. So laugh away.

“your mental deficiencies prevent you from existing in reality with the rest of us. ”

No, you guys just keep that way of “thinking” to yourselves. That “reality” of yours is just another kind of mental disease that seems to prevail amongst liberals exclusively. Ya'll have fun with that now! Ya hear?

Did you ever try to come up with a good reason why your Main Man can't cough up some REAL evidence for his identity?

Why would I need to come up with a reason he hasn't done something, when he has?

Or do you always just hurl insults, hoping that will somehow make a point?

This coming from someone who mostly just posts vague threats (not particularly menacing threats, mind you, since we all know you fools are all talk).

Shorter Randwulf:

“Hey everybody, I found a black guy to say something bad about Obama! That means there are no racists, suckas!”

You're an idiot.

But that is fine because we're such nutters, we'll just keep making waves till something is seen and something is done.

Oh trust us, we're all seeing what the nutters have done. Driven the Republican party off a cliff and into crazy town. Was a short drive, anyway.

Now, nobody said that Stanley Ann was a “whore.” I doubt she ever charged a dime for it.

Socialists, after all, don’t believe in private property rights or the market economy.

I’m just reasonably raising the consideration that with all the pollinating going on in her little flower, it’s hard to tell the true provenance of her firstborn without DNA analyses.

And I, too, know that Babs Bush put out like Messalina. Sordid, ain’t it? These Republicans oughta glue their wives’ knees together or something….

I don't know about “excellent,” but I think Mr. Weigel made a mistake in making it so easy to directly access Mr. McCarthy's article. Reading it demonstrates that Mr. Weigel's hystrionics above are sadly inaccurate, and tends to reduce his credibility as anything resembling an impartial observer reporting on the issue of Barry Soetoro's lawful eligibility even to have entered the National Socialist (formerly “Democrat”) Party primaries last year.

As for what “those people” are so afraid of, Michelle….

Well, picture Barry Soetoro in handcuffs, ankle fetters, and belly chains being perp-walked out of the White House by a squad of federal marshals.

That's what they're “so afraid of.”

Well, picture Barry Soetoro in handcuffs, ankle fetters, and belly chains being perp-walked out of the White House by a squad of federal marshals.

That's what they're “so afraid of.”

Trust me, we may find your personal masturbation fantasies to be scary, but not because we are afraid they may come true. They won't.

Jeez, wheezer. Just 'cause I call the Dunham family “poor white trash” you think I'm succumbing to “racism”? Such a colorful characterization of these multigenerational pereginating socialist scumbuckets clots your sour cream or something?

Gawd, talk about pathological hypersensitivity among the Obamaphiles….

Hm? Little swampscum, what makes you think that the shysterate is the exclusive province of God's Chosen People?

The goyim have been allowed inside for centuries.

Y'know, I've been saying that to you asshole Obamaphiles for the past couple of weeks here. Thanks for finally acknowledging it.

Whining that your “poverty pimp” Messiah is legally qualified to so much as have entered the National Socialist (formerly “Democrat”) Party primaries last year when you schmucklets haven't got even the non-fraudulent computer graphic image of a leg to stand on most certainly “will not make it so.”

Little insect creature, I deeply appreciate your personal concern (“we,” putzie? you got a tapeworm, or are you getting that email push from Messiah Central on the “talking points” your “left-wing bloggers” are supposed to promulgate on behalf of your ACORN “poverty pimp”?), and I assure you that I will consider it for precisely what it's worth.

Er, that means “fribble off and die,” invertebrate. Before I get out the Black Flag and set your six twitchy little legs skyward in permanent immobilization.

LMAO! You are a dreadful, yet oddly compelling and really quite witty motherfucker, you know that?

Thanks, wheezer. Wish I could say the same about you humorless cement-headed Obamaphile “poverty pimp” worshipers.

Hey, Jude. Neat line of investigation. Now you've got to apply for a research grant, track down our “poverty pimp” simulacrum of a POTUS, and get a tissue sample for DNA and RNA analyses.

When you've gotten your data, get back to me, and I'll help you bash the manuscript onto shape for publication.

Good on 'ya, mate!

If giving a shit about the middle class and working people of this country makes you a pimp, then so be it.

You know what they say:

Pimpin’ ain’t dead, the ho’s are just scared.

“Pieces of shit”, what does your mother have to do with this exactly? Bottom feeding, cousin fucking, knuckle draggers would co-sign anything birther – so being called a “piece of shit” by the likes of you is like getting dating advice from a rapist. As for looking forward to some sort of “civil war”, that's not really honest. The only violence in your life is the beating action you perform to your penis when you masturbate to Mein Kampf. You are a pussy, panty waste, nancy boy – and you know deep inside that Kool-Aid pumping heart of yours that you actually wet yourself when faced with real confrontation. As for Michelle, she didn't have to say anything racist – co-signing birthers in any fashion is giving a nod to racism. I don't particularly know about “wanting” racism, but you sure did give us all a big dose of stupid. Cheers douchebag. :)

My sentiments exactly. It like people who use Allan Keys as their trump card. lol Inbreeding is a bigger problem in this country than I thought.

At least Babs Bush has done things to deserve criticism.

No one who heard her remark about the people dying in the New Orleans Superdome came away impressed with her decency:

“What I’m hearing which is sort of scary is that they all want to stay in Texas. Everybody is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway so this (chuckle) – this is working very well for them.” –Former First Lady Barbara Bush, on the hurricane evacuees at the Astrodome in Houston, Sept. 5, 2005″

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/currentevents/a/katrinaquotes.htm

Gee, thanks for the chuckle, Ice Queen. Made your point. The subhumans didn’t have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of before, so they oughta be grateful for whatever the fuck you give ‘em, right?

She deserves the names people call her.

No one can point to anything President Obama’s mother said or did, other than giving birth to him in Hawaii, that pisses them off.

Yet they mock her virtue and even mock the fact that she died a lingering painful cancerous death.

That’s all you need to know about these people.

Jeez, wheezer, but I am “the middle class.” What the hell d’you think a small businessman like a doctor or a dentist – especially a solo practitioner – is, f’chrissake?

The “working people” are the folks I both employ and serve. Most members of my family fall into that “working people” category, too.

What the “working people” seem to need most, wheezer, is for the goddamned government to leave them to keep what they earn, and not tax them at multiple levels until better than some eighty-plus percent of their productivity and earning power gets chewed up by politicians’ pipe dreams and bureacrats’ empire-building.

By the bye, “poverty pimp” is a common synonym for “community organizer.”

What, you think that Barry Soetoro got paid by the rabble he roused for? Snigger! Guffaw!

Aren’t you glad you tried to pay Tuci78 a genuine compliment?

Aren’t you pleased at his mutually-humorous and appreciative response?

Well, if you find him witty, you’re in for a wild ride. You haven’t scratched the surface of his charm yet.

Keep dreamin, nutter.

“And making references to her being sexually permissive with idiotic and abusive statements like “you would have given up that ass to me easily.”"

Wow, the “Barack Obama is not a citizen” guy is easily offended, who would have thunk it?

“They can't stand the fact that everyone doesn't worship HIM and even have the temerity to question HIS eligibility to hold HIS office”

What a horseshit strawman. That flimsy argument might hold up if Obama supporters took issue with your Obama critiques if they were based on foreign policy, the economy.. But getting all sensitive like a teenage girl when people challenge a belief that many believe is racist, just makes you look like a floppy pair of tits.

“They just attack with personal insults and never address facts or answer with any kind of intelligent or logical response. So I hand it right back to them.”

You did nothing of the sort. You just prove that you're the poster boy for abortions, that your mother should have let the rest of you slide down her leg – and that truly insane people, glass lickers if you will, believe roundly debunked myths.

You again mistake my annoyance and irritation at your willingness to stoop as low as mocking the handicapped in the process of making your over-wrought paranoid rants against the government and your violent threats against its legitimate leader….

for me actually getting anywhere near as upset as you apparently spend every waking moment of your wretched life being.

Enjoy being ostracized by the NRO, Bill O’Reilly, Ann Coulter, Michael Steele, and the rest of the cast of characters that the rest of us consider sleazy fringe entertainers. Even those clowns won’t have anything to do with you birthers.

No matter how many extra words you stuff into your post, no matter how far into the Obscure Reference Bag of Quotes you dip, you’re still a paranoid racist doofus who keeps getting owned by a simple six word phrase:

“Birthers have the burden of proof”

Enjoy cogitating on that, you prevaricating puddle of ooze.

Yes because you have to be a commie socialist to marry, I said marry, one of them they'ah negrahs.

</end foghornleghorn voice>

Like you even know what socialism is ( Tuci78 sputters: “It's what Glenn Beck says you liberals do in between abortions! You do teh socialism!!!!!1!!!! Wolverines!!1!!”

You know, racism is so 1992. Come into the year 2009 man. Join us!

It is also good to know that your “word of the day” calendar is being put to use. Peregrinating indeed…..lol. Do you know that that means “traveling” or do you think it is a fancy word for “n*gger lover”?

You had friends who were on crystal meth and yet still had cars?

Well, I guess you did say “for a few months.” That could mean you were friends for a few months or they were on drugs a few months.

Reminds me of Sam Kinnison talking about his experience being addicted to cocaine.

Said he called the Betty Ford Clinic and was told it would cost $13,000.

He screams into the microphone in his trademark way “I said ‘If you got thirteen thousand dollars, YOU DON’T HAVE A PROBLEM YET!’ and I hung up the phone!”

But yes, Andy McCarthy does remind me of some of my less-gifted colleagues growing up.

I'd prefer not to. The wife tells me I keep running cardiac arrest codes in my sleep, and I wake up of the mornings calculating antiarrhythmia drug dosages.

Sometimes I even welcome those three-o-clock-in-the-morning calls from the hospital to renew a patient's sleeping pill order.

Well he is a pathological douche. I don’t find him charming at all. But he is amusing, in his wild-eyed, crazy Freeper way.

Aw, stevie, I’m counting on your “annoyance and irritation”.

And what, you’re not only black, a lawyer, but also physically as well as mentally and morally handicapped?

Obamaphiles – and Barry Soetoro, ACORN “poverty pimp” spurious POTUS – have the burden of proof.

–
“Only the information on the original birth certificate, ‘the original Certificate of Live Birth,’ can demonstrate to the people of the United States whether there is convincing evidence that he was actually born here or whether a relative or two (or possibly even Barack Obama himself) just made a statement to that effect to a low level bureaucrat.”

Repeating the link: http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=2697

Yes because working to make life better for the poor always makes you a corrupt pimp. Sure. And small businesses are the biggest beneficiaries of a national healthcare plan.

Small business would love for healthcare to be “taken out of their way so they can keep what they earn, crazy dude. Health benefits are killing them.

Trot out a new argument ok. The “get govt out of the way” meme is old and no one believes it. Have you been paying attention for the last year. Getting govt out of the way is how the financial industry free to fuck the country with no Astroglide. Go sit down and try to brainstorm on new wingnut talking points.

I’ll wait.

Hey, don’t denigrate the douche, wheezer. A lot of GYN guys I know still swear by them.

What, feeling hosed, little Obamaphile?

Look, just because Stanley Ann Dunham really, really liked to sleep around (wonder what her Wasserman would've read in 1961?) across ethnicities and probably beyond her species (see “rishathra” on Wikipedia) and was a second-generation “commie socialist” doesn't mean that all folk of European stock who choose to make the beast of two backs with “people of color” are “commie socialist” wastoids.

Political and sexual appetites are not necessarily co-incident.

Gawd, I hope not. I kinda hate even to think about what the average bureaucrat's sex life would be like were that the case.

(( “I'm gonna fuck ya, little lady, so lie back and take it. But first ya gotta fill out these forms and take a number. I can't get it up any other way….” ))

I understand Obama's birth certificate was used to kill Vince Foster.

and it took down the Twin Towers.

Ah I get it. You are one of these guys. Fascinating. I thought I detected a shivery prurience that suggested you might be tugging at your wanker as you thought about Stanley and Dr. Obama making little Barack.

Naughty.

Nah. The wife wouldn't let me, even if I had the guts to try it. Remember, I used to be kinda the county “VD doctor” thirty years ago. Go through that experience, and I guarantee the incentive to keep the fly zippered and the marital relationship absolutely sacrosanct. Some of the stuff I saw and swabbed and biopsied back in those days…. Yeesh.

And ya gotta wonder about Stanley Ann and her Kenyan booze-hound, don'tcha? Could be that Barry's real father's name is just as likely to have been “Davis” or “Little,” doesn't it?

Like I said, Ms. Dunham slept around a lot.

I doubt it. She may have liked ethnic guys but liking ethnic guys does not = loose. This whole “she slept around like a fucking whore” meme was trotted out about Bill Clinton's mother as well. But because Stanley Ann Dunham was a feminist, a scholar (probably one of those hilarious white people who wore dashikis and sandals hand tooled by some fascinating nomadic tribe), of course the “whore” accusation would follow her around. What self respecting woman would pursue an advanced degree in anthropology and travel to exotic places (and date exotic guys) unless she was a piece of trash whore, right?

Meh, I think it is pointless, even if you loathe the hell out of Obama and every liberal pinko idea he stands for, to call his dead mother a trailer trash whore. But, we live in a free country and we can say whatever we want about anyone's mother without fear of state punishment or arrest right – well except in Cambridge. (wink).

Fuck it, I called that old whore Babs Bush a fucking cunt so much that I would be struck by lightning if I feigned offense at all this shit. I just find it deeply fascinating. I am certain that if we become crazy enough to elect Sarah Palin to national office, I will find a pet conspiracy about her to cleave to. I am sure that if one drags a net across a few Wasilla trailerparks enough times, one will come up with something delightful.

No further action need be taken to “end the discussion” or to “end the questions”. The discussion is closed by order of the US Supreme Court, whose Chief Justice administered the Oath of Office of President of the United States, and by order of the Senate of the United States whom confirmed the electoral college voting results.

The discussion is OVER.

Anyone applying for a passport would get a certificate from their state of birth similar to that issued to Barack Obama and the same as publicly circulated and displayed. The Constitution does not require special forms of birth certificates to appease racist subversives undermining the presidency using falsified Kenya documentations and claims.

When it comes down to who do you trust, the STATE of HAWAII is trusted over unknown Kenyan alleged witnesses. STANLEY ANN Obama, Barack's mother, was unable to travel to Kenya for medical reasons, and an infant returning with her would not be admitted into the US for medical reason — it didn't happen and was medically impossible due to Yellow Fever Virus Vaccination medical requirements.

Pregnant women were not vaccinated and infants under 1-year-old were not vaccinated. It didn't happen.

Stanley Ann was in classes at University of Hawaii before the birth — there was no prolonged absence from classes. Barack Obama Senior was conspicuous as the FIRST-EVER BLACK STUDENT at University of Hawaii, and was not absent from classes before or after the birth.

The only conspiracy is the criminal fraud conspiracy falsifying documentation purporting that there are witnesses in Kenya who allegedly attended the alleged Kenyan birth. These felony fraudsters need to be punished with severe prison sentences, including those aiding and abetting after the fact, because they have undermined military good order and have already caused at least one officer to refuse orders of assignment caused by the fraud crime. This is not harmless political tug-of-war but actual treason. Traitors must be punished for undermining America's security during a time of war.

The only thing I smell is your urine, randypuppy. You still haven't changed your panties from when you ran away after I told you I post under my real name and asked for your address so I could visit you with a video camera and document you pissing yourself while I say to your face what I write to you here.

Hey, randypuppy, you know what else I noticed?

HumanityCritic called you a “panty waste.” In the course of so doing, HumanityCritic demonstrated that he or she knows how to spell “panty,” which you do not. You think it's “pantie.” No doubt because you think that must be the “singular” form of the word “panties.”

Which is hilarious precisely because the effeminacy of that misspelling captures your persona perfectly. Yet it clashes ironically with the absurd threats and unimaginative racists taunts you lob aimlessly. I enjoyed watching you try to jump in and stick up for a fellow birther posting as a female. Macho stuff! Too bad you tripped on your own Converse All-Stars on the way into the brawl.

You call people crude racist names multiple times without even knowing what race they are! You went through a dozen iterations of calling me a “monkey fucker” and a lot worse before you admitted that you don't know whether I'm white.

Gee, it's not as though I haven't indicated the answer to that, randypuppy, but then again we know you're a dumbass.

So how did you like the NRO article that McCarthy was embarrassed by? The National Review Online is trying to distance itself from the birthers as fast as it can, and they're pulling no punches about what motivates you. An unwillingness to accept the results of a legitimate election.

Know what that means, in NRO-speak? The white arch-conservative editors at National Review Online are calling you birthers racists!

Chew on that for a while, randypuppy! Good dog.

Hey! Your facts are getting in the way of my story. D'yamind?

Doesn't the right think that Bill Maher speaks for white socialists, while Gibbs speaks for a black one?

Pretty much covers the bases, from a birther's point of view.

I would have let it slide, frankly. The fact that both names were spelled correctly is unusual enough to merit a free pass just this once.

Continue in your delusions but just know this. We aren't fucking around here. You are pushing middle-of-the-road people toward something they didn't want and when it gets to a point of them not being able to stand your shit anymore, it it going to get very nasty. So call names. Act like idiots. Its OK. We understand. The civil war will come. The left and the right hate each other with such a passion at this point, there can be no going back or going forward to any other end. Someone will emerge the victor and the other will become extinct. My money is on the right wingers because they have most of the guns and almost all of the military experience. This should be over rather quickly.

Oh, and you are soooooo brave on line. I'm really impressed with your e-prowess.

See my posting to Humanity Reject above ASSMUNCH! Same goes to you.

Inbreeding is a problem alright. But is your stupidity the result of that or of study? Maybe you are just cross-bred. lol lol lol lol lol Whatever.

Speaking of a “floppy pair of tits” isn't your mother calling you? And didn't the best part of you run down her leg? Get a life stain. You lose. He is a fraud. He will be arrested and tried. He will go to prison. We will win the civil war and clean you scum out. Get used to it. And go suck Mantis off. What a pair of Obaboon faggots!

See my posting to your fudge packing butt buddy above. Sick, twisted, freak.

I'm not a Republican you stupid douche. We won't put up with the shit that they will. They are fucking pussies. Your a pathetic waste of salt.

Nobody knows more about masturbation fantasies that you, buttmunch.

Hey DIngleberry!! Where you been? I was worried you might have gotten your slimey little ersatz backbone crushed in a mousetrap or something. You just attacked one of your own butt buddies. How fucking amusing!

What a bunch of fucking idiots. This thread is dead. Obama hasn't shown one single piece of original paper yet. That is the FACT. All the rest of this exchange is meaningless. He needs to produce something. Nothing else to talk about.

“Continue in your delusions but just know this. We aren't fucking around here.”

You are a pussy, and we all know this.

“You are pushing middle-of-the-road people toward something they didn't want and when it gets to a point of them not being able to stand your shit anymore, it it going to get very nasty.”

Shut the fuck up coward. No one is pushing anyone toward anything. That was just something that you pulled out of your diseased buttcheeks, desperately trying to mask your cowardice.

“The civil war will come.”

Nothing will come, your skirt is showing, you take it from both ends. End of story.

“Oh, and you are soooooo brave on line. I'm really impressed with your e-prowess.”

You are the one who started talking tough jackass..

I smacked you around there too.

Not only is inbreeding a problem, so is your father's aim. Your mother should have swallowed you..

…this coming from the guy whose mother blows strangers for rent money. Yeah, I thought you were going to fight back – what's up with you regurgutating what I wrote. You're even more worthless than I thought. Barack Obama is the President and there isn't anything that you can do about it. I know the racism stings, and if there is a god you will slowly choke on that.

Down below and edging off to the right, we've got WeezieJefferson writing:

“Yes because working to make life better for the poor always makes you a corrupt pimp. Sure. And small businesses are the biggest beneficiaries of a national healthcare plan.

“Small business would love for healthcare to be 'taken out of their way so they can keep what they earn, crazy dude. Health benefits are killing them.

“Trot out a new argument ok. The 'get govt out of the way' meme is old and no one believes it. Have you been paying attention for the last year. Getting govt out of the way is how the financial industry free to fuck the country with no Astroglide. Go sit down and try to brainstorm on new wingnut talking points.

“I'll wait.”

How does plundering the people who work for a living “make life better for the poor,” wheezer? Sucking the wealth out of the productive sector through the vampire apparatus of government doesn't waste most of what's extracted, and misallocate whatever it is that gets to “the poor”?

So churning up public resentment per the Cloward-Piven Strategy is a benefit to “the poor,” eh?

The Cloward-Piven Strategy is named after Columbia University professors Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven, and presses action to force deliberate failure in society to foster change toward socialism through a deliberate overload of government services, imposing impossible demands, legal actions and “lawfare.” Their method is aimed at pushing the polity into economic collapse, kindling fear and resentment of the market economy and facilitating socialist schemes. When you see “poverty pimps” equipping and organizing hordes of “the poor” to storm welfare offices and politicians' meetings with demands for immediate action that the “community organizers” know cannot be met, you're watching the Cloward-Piven Strategy in action.

The “get government out of the way” meme is what kindled the American Revolution, wheezer. Kinda in our blood and in our bones as Americans.

As for the “healthcare” mess, I've got perfectly good “get government to hell out of the way!” solutions for that one, too.

What, you actually think that it wasn't the friggin' government that screwed things up in the health care sector so badly that the costs skyrocketed? Sheesh.

To err is human, wheezer. To really fuck up, you need the government.

–
“Gerald Kellman later relates that Obama’s job 'largely consisted of interviewing community members and creating a narrative out of their experiences, the problems the community faced.' Kellman also noted, 'It is clear that the benefit of those years to Mr. Obama dwarfs what he accomplished… On issues, we made very little progress, nothing that would change poverty on the South Side of Chicago.' According to his boss Obama was a failure as a community organizer, despite being a 'master of agitation.' Obama is less a community organizer than a community agitator, teaching people how to demand more welfare benefits and other government handouts. But like many poverty pimps, Obama is able to parlay his experience into something fashionable for his politically correct resume, even if he did little to help those he had led on crusades.“

Source http://www.colony14.net/id41.html Use your Web browser's “Edit”/”Find” function and enter “poverty pimp” to search the second instantiation of this phrase.

Hey, Tuci78 couldn't do this, maybe you can. Show me what law Obama has violated by not showing his birth certificate to members of the general public.

I’m a little confused here–in the financial statements Obama submitted, was he required to list every debt he has ever incurred, regardless of whether it had been paid off or not? I admit I have no idea what kind of disclosures Obama was required to make, but it seems strange to have to provide information on education loans that had been repaid in full.

Also, I don’t understand why people have such a hard time believing that Obama could have paid for college/law school on student loans. If he was a good student (and to get into Columbia and Harvard Law, he had to be at least a good, if not excellent, student) and demonstrated financial need, he could probably have gotten some kind of financial aid (not for the full amount, obviously, but every little bit helps). And I know from first-hand experience that it is entirely possible to pay for college and law school entirely on student loans, and to pay them back within several years (rather than decades)–my husband paid for all of undergrad and law school (at Harvard) with student loans and made enough within his first two years at a large corporate firm (similar to where Michelle and Barack Obama worked) to pay off all of his private loans. He’s also paid off most of his government educational loan–the only reason he doesn’t pay it all off is that the interest rate he has locked in is so good, it doesn’t make sense to pay it all off, but if he wanted to he could have paid all that off too within three years of working. He came from a solid middle class family and received no financial aid and no scholarships, so everything (tuition, books, housing) was paid for through loans. And he did this with absolutely no help from anyone else (myself included). Keep in mind that Michelle had a considerable income of her own that she could have used to help Obama pay off his loans.

So, really, there’s nothing nefarious or superhuman or mind-boggling about Obama being able to pay for his expensive education.

On those debts, yeah, I think he was. Consider: if a guy coming up to sit in Washington City had gotten a big damned loan from some crook or influence peddler while working in Springfield and had paid it all off before getting his apotheosis to the U.S. Senate, wouldn’t even that discharged debt be a mark of his expected gratitude for such a “favor”? It was precisely for the purpose of addressing such potential conflicts of interest that these “transparency” rules were implemented.

And “educational loans” big enough to get a low-paid “community organizer” with diddly-spit paychecks into and through Harvard Law…. Well, that’s beaucoup bucks. Even if he’d gotten such loans through a bank or two, the public certainly ought to know which banks did him such a nicey, just in case another “Keating Five” situation rears its ugly head, no?

But for him to get into either Columbia or Harvard Law didn’t necessarily take “good grades.” What, you never heard of influence? How the hell d’you think Dubbya got into Yale, or into Harvard Business? Strings got pulled for Barry in pretty much the same way.

When you look at the student writing he did – and there’s some of it out there that his handlers haven’t been able to “sterilize” the way they’ve vanished his undergraduate thesis at Columbia – you’ve got to face the fact that Barry Soetoro sucked as a student. His megabuck best-seller Dreams of my Father was most assuredly as completely ghosted as was JFK’s Profiles in Courage.

Like most surgeons I know, Barry couldn’t write to save his poor, pitiful life. And a guy who can’t put it down on paper coherently can’t think coherently.

So, really, there’s absolutely everything “nefarious” and hackles-raisingly suspicious about every jot and tittle of Barry Soetoro’s academic record, not least the way he scammed up the money to pay for it.

[...] David Weigel: Andrew McCarthy Embarrasses National Review [...]

As long as all this ends up with a certain usurper's head on a pike is what matters most.

[...] David Weigel: Andrew McCarthy Embarrasses National Review [...]

Weigh the evidence he was born in Honolulu versus the evidence he was born in Mombasa, Kenya. Where does the scale tip, in your opinion?

Of course, the evidence he was born in Mombasa is laughable. The only proof anyone has pointed to is a recorded conversation with Sarah Obama, his step-grandmother. A conversation in which she clearly states 4 separate times that Barack Obama was “born in America; not in Africa.” And that’s it. No other evidence. No documentation. No eyewitness testimony. No circumstantial evidence. Nothing. Birthers can’t even come up with an explanation for why Ann Dunham, a white woman from Kansas living comfortably in Honolulu, would inexplicably fly halfway around the world while 7 months pregnant to give birth to her child in Kenya.

Weigh the evidence.

1. If he was a dual citizen, produce a copy of his foreign passport.

2. You have clearly failed to read the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, which clearly established that the only qualification for being a natural born citizen was to be born on US soil.

3. There is no language in the Constitution’s presidential qualifications clause addressing “dual citizenship,” or the citizenship of one’s ancestors in any manner. The intent of the framers of the Constitution was simply to require that a presidential candidate be born on US soil. Period. This is evidenced by the language of the clause itself.

You will never see “legal scholars” like Bork and Schlafly comment on this issue because it is a ridiculous non-story unworthy of their attention. There is no amount of “legal scholarship” needed to analyze the legal issues. Barack Obama was born on Honolulu. The Constitution’s presidential qualifications clause states only that a person needs to be a natural born citizen. The 14th Amendment and the U.S. Supreme Court in United States v. Wong Kim Ark make it abundantly clear that the only requirement for being a natural born citizen is to be born in the United States. There is no prohibition on being a “dual citizen” even if Obama was a dual citizen, which is far from clear. There is also no truth to the assertion that he as a 5-year old child intentionally renounced his American citizenship.

There are plenty of conservative lawyers who HAVE commented on the birther movement. You just choose to ignore their opinions. Ann Coulter (J.D., Michigan) thinks birthers are a bunch of wackjobs. Congressman John Shadegg (R-Ariz) (J.D., Arizona), says he looked into the allegations a long time ago and concluded that they were completely without merit. Of course several federal judges who tossed a birther lawsuit out of his or her courtroom are also conservatives who were appointed by a Republican president.

For some reason these legal minds don’t count, but Orly Taitz (who got her law degree from an online correspondence school) and Phil Berg (who thinks President Bush destroyed the World Trade Center) do count. That’s birther logic for you.

“The age of majority in the U.S. in 1961 was 21yr”

There is no federal age of majority. The age of majority is an issue of state law.

“his mother had to be at least 19 to grant natural-born status(she was 18).”

This statement is a complete fabrication. There is not one place in any law book in the United States that contains such language. Not one statute passed by Congress. Not one executive order or regulation. Not one ruling issued by the Supreme Court. Not one phrase in the Constitution. It is a complete, 100 percent, absolute fiction.

I checked out 5 C.F.R. PART 2634, which governs the financial disclosures that members of the Executive Branch (including the President) are required to make. I wasn’t able to find anything in the statute that would require a President to disclose every loan he has ever received, even if it has already been repaid in full before he ever became President. Could you point me to the statute that requires that the President to disclose this kind of info? I’m not trying to get into a pissing match here, I’m genuinely curious.

Also, I know that influence can be a factor in getting admitted to a good school. But I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that “influence” is the possible only way Obama could have gotten into Columbia or Harvard. Especially Columbia, because he was still a very young guy at that point–I don’t know what kind of juice you think a 20 year old with an absent father and from a family “a hair above ‘poor white trash’” has, but I don’t think it’s the kind of “influence” George W. had behind him. Admittedly, I have no idea of how exact circumstances of Obama’s admittance to these schools, but in the absence of credible evidence indicating something suspicious (and with all of the feverish digging into Obama’s past, I’m hoping someone would have uncovered something by now), I’m not going to assume that unnamed “influence” is the only possible way Obama could have gotten in.

Similarly, I don’t understand your assertion of the “fact” that he was a bad student. Have you ever looked back at something you wrote in college and cringed at how bad it was? What you wrote in college (or high school, or elementary school) is not the touchstone for how intelligent you are perceived to be for the rest of your life, thank God. I’m not going to leap to the conclusion that he was a piss-poor student based on a few old school papers or articles. And no, I don’t know what grades he got in school–but so what? He’s not required to disclose that information, and I don’t see what relevance it has now.

If you think that Obama is an abysmally stupid hack, then there should be more than enough evidence of that in his current policies as President, and it seems more relevant and important to be discussing those than to be obsessing over Obama’s birth/family/grades/etc.

Oh, goodie. One less indictment for him to worry about. That leaves Barry with – what, a couple of thousand other criminal charges? – a whole helluva lot less to deal with when he begins the pre-sentencing process.

Admittedly, Barry’s “influence” wasn’t the same “Legacy”/”Good Old Boy” kind of influence that got Dubbya into Skull and Bones. Barry got his hand-up by way of Alinsky and Ayers and Khalid Abdullah Tariq al-Mansour and suchlike explicitly Marxist, Islamist, “Death to the Great Satan!” types, who are especially popular on the Cambridge campus of Patrice Lumumba University (aka “Harvard”).

And as an unknown young man, his literary agent Jane Dystel squeezes a $125,000 advance from Simon and Shuster’s Poseidon Press division for Dreams From My Father on a manuscript he hadn’t even written when they coughed up the cash.

Hm. Can you think back to Bubba’s Bitch in her Arkansas glory days, and remember the words: “cattle futures trading”?

And I’m pretty goddam certain that Simon and Shuster didn’t put up that advance (almost all of it unrecoverable when Barry failed to deliver) because they’d seen and liked a sample of his writing style. Examples of Barry’s literary prowess that his handlers haven’t been able to scrub off the Web show that he was a complete fuck-up as a writer.

Hm. Now how the hell d’you think he got to become “the first (almost) black president of Harvard Law Review, anyway? His huge – and by that I mean “nonexistent”- body of law student publications? Influence, maybe?

Barry Soetoro is emphatically NOT “an abysmally stupid hack,” kid. He’s a malignantly clever, malevolently scheming, morally stinking, utterly corrupt Cook County machine politician, an ACORN “poverty pimp” (and it appears he sucked at doing that, too) whose greatest personal liabilities seem to lie in his spectacular narcissistic personality disorder.

I mean, if you ignore his socialism, his corruption, his lifelong history of consorting with known felons, and all that kinda stuff.

The right wing has all the weapons, all the military training and all of the resolve to get the job done. The left wing has a bunch of vile, sick, sexually obsessed, limp-wristed, smart-ass, foul-mouth little pussies. The maximum effective range of that liberal shit in a combat situation is about 0 meters. This will be over quick. Choke on that you piece of slime. Obama is just about finished and so is your commie bullshit in North America.

“The right wing has all the weapons, all the military training and all of the resolve to get the job done.”

You are a pussy, the only “weapon” you have are those fragile dick beaters of yours – you are a coward that scares absolutely no one.

“The left wing has a bunch of vile, sick, sexually obsessed, limp-wristed, smart-ass, foul-mouth little pussies.”

You seem to be projecting there, or looking in a mirror – because that’s a pretty concise description of you bitch boy.

“This will be over quick.”

That’s probably what you tell all of your girlfriends before sex. I feel for your sexually frustrated lovers..

“Choke on that you piece of slime.”

That’s definitely not what you tell your lovers, based on that fact that you probably couldn’t reach any human’s throat.

“Obama is just about finished and so is your commie bullshit in North America.”

Keep the veiled threats against the president up you spineless coward, the secret service will definitely be alerted. Cheers douchebag.

Do you really think anyone takes you seriously anymore? Your posts consist mainly of name-calling, which indicates to most people that you don't even take *yourself* seriously. If you have no self-respect, why should anyone else respect your opinions?

Right. That's believable. A man who is smart enough to get into Harvard Law School, and is selected by his peers and faculty to be Editor of the Harvard Law Review, is supposedly running around fluffing his resume about some stupid internship.

If you're going to make things up that you hope will stick, try conjuring up stories that are halfway believable.

But, but, aren’t you afraid that he’ll call YOU an “ASSMUNCH” too?

What’s your contingency plan if that happens?

You’d better have one hell of a comeback. I suggest something about monkeys and bananas.

Until then, I just hope you’re well-protected in your home. Apparently there are patriots under attack by Communists, and cowboys playing hide and go seek with Indians, somewhere near Colorado Springs. No word on whether GI Joe is presently fighting the Cobra foe.

Wow. So what happened to all that right-wing “resolve to get the job done” on November 4, 2008? Didn’t they try their hardest to keep Obama out of the White House?

Or is it your argument that the right’s grand strategy was to play Rope-a-Dope on November 4 with the understanding that the REAL election is six months later?

Any right-wingers with military training are presently and happily putting that training to use on the battlefield in loyal service to their country and their President.

Many, many left-wing citizens also wear the uniform.

The maximum effectiveness of your idiotic attempt at partisanship is lost once your audience stops playing Cowboys & Indians, doofus.

But I recognize that you still play Cowboys & Indians. That’s kinda built into my point.

Oh, and please elaborate on how Obama is just about finished. Don’t forget to tell us more about how commie bullshit is about finished in Mexico and Canada. When did they hire you to represent them? I can’t wait to see you talk tough to the Mexican and Canadian commie scum hiding amidst the socialists, randypuppy!

Go get ‘em, tiger!

Hmmm.

Your hated critics mock your attempts at civil war prediction and point out the absurdity of your pretzel logic.

You invariably respond with a homoerotic reference.

Hence, “fudge packing butt buddy,” the question arises… What type of lemonade do you drink while you’re projecting your deficiencies onto total strangers?

Ah, so you’re right-wing (they have neato weapons, military training, and resolve to lose an election in high style), but you’re not Republican.

Are you a member of Tuci78′s band of loyal libertarians? S’all good, bro’, S’all good. Even though you don’t know what libertarianism is, and even though Tuci78 is well aware of your ignorance, I’m sure he enjoys your wit. Just hope he doesn’t call you “chuckles” in a moment of candor, like he did to naturalborn.

But I digress from my main point. randypuppy, who’s “we” in the “we won’t put up with the shit that they will?”

“Your a pathetic waste of salt.”

Could the two of you maybe spring for a dictionary instead of blowing your budget on salt and a book about how to bring about a civil war through interpretive dance?

Nobody knows more about munching butts “that you,” randypuppy.

Still didn’t find the funds to spring for that dictionary, I see.

Why didn’t you have the stones to call mantis an “assmunch” and put it in all caps, as you did above?

Is it the same reason you wrote “monkeyf@cker” until I called your attention to it? Because you are a prissy little wuss who’s afraid Mommy will find out that he’s been cussin’ on the computer?

Oh give me a break. Liberal blogs and magazines gave nearly a decade to every remotely conspiratorial hyperbole about the Bush administration. The left has 8 years to sleep in the bed it made. 8 years ago I'd come off of 8 years of defending Clinton (at least for the most part, particularly against the silly Lewinski 'scandal' and other bits of stupidity). Today, however, I'm content to let all of you rot in the in garbage heap into which you have collectively transformed American political (and social) discourse.

LMAO. Dumb. Ass.

It’s a shame you didn’t ever get that dictionary I told you to get. Not only could you have looked up “ersatz,” you could have looked up “sarcasm.”

NO ONE but you would read my post and think I was “attacking” mantis. God, you’re dumber than I keep telling everyone that you are. Here’s the best proof possible. What the fuck do they do to teach reading in Colorado Springs, doofus? Hand you a Bible and some salt and hope for the best? “Your a waste of salt.” LMAO.

No one but you or Tuci78 would continue to repeat the phrase “butt buddies” in his posts.

You’re clearly projecting your own homoerotic fantasies. I can’t say I’m not flattered. But the answer remains an emphatic “no.”

Fascinating. The frayed threads of your mind snapping one by one right there for all the world to see.

I wish the Obama health care reform would enable me to get coverage for whatever drugs you’re on, test-taker.

It would be neat to tune in, turn on and drop out as you do once in a while.

But then I’d want to get back to reality. The place you inhabit is full of butt-buddies playing Cowboys & Indians and naturalborn dunces who don’t understand that British law doesn’t affect American citizens.

And, of course, you’re there, as well. Making up fascinating gibberish.

In other words, you are acknowledging the insanity and irrationality of the birther argument, while choosing to allow people around you to believe it in any way? Does your conscience not bother you about this lack of intellectual integrity?

I am a Democrat who voted for Gore and Kerry. When I heard ridiculous arguments being made about President Bush, I refuted them. I believe I represent the majority of American voters of both political parties. I am more interested in the truth than I am in partisan hackery. It's sad that someone like you places dishonest gamemanship over the truth.

Neil, birthers never consider the source. They only consider what the source happens to be saying right then.

Good post.

See, this is the light touch we were missing. The Buddhist and the Christain would have overdone it.

WB, Florida. Cast out the usurpers!

Oh, you Obamaphiles sure as hell seem to be taking what I post “seriously.”

Like I said, it really gets under that coat of slime you clowns use in lieu of a skin and burns, don't it?

If all I put up were “name-calling,” that'd suit you to a treat. The problem is that I also enjoy posting sound praxeological argument and I'm perfectly aware of precisely where and how your “government as Santa Claus” bullshit crashes and burns.

You really get pissed off by that, don'tcha?

Yes, that’s true. But Gerald Ford is scary. And Bill Clinton is black.

I think the problem is that they can’t stand a President with such a cool-to-us but scary-to-them name.

You’d have to be named Darth Winston Vader III to be a bigger threat to the juveniles in the right wing.

Aw, Randi. Whaddaya mean “dead”? You don't hear the little bastiches squealing and whining: “Make it go away! Please, please, PLEASE, make it go away!“

S'all good, bro'. S'all good.

Frankly, I ignore most of your comments. Most readers do too. You have noticed that the same few people keep responding to your comments over and over again, haven't you?

Interesting that you are sooooo interested in panties or pantys however you say they are supposed to be spelled. What kind of panty, panties, pantys do you wear? My spell check is currently indicating that panties is the correct spelling. Do you wear pant or pants when you are not in drag? My spell check just indicated that both are correct spellings however I know that the former (pant) refers to what you do while being done from the rear by one of your big black, monkey fuck “lovers”. So it should be pants when referring to the item of clothing, just like panties when referring to what you like to wear for your boyfriends. And, shouldn't it be “waist”, as in the mid-section of the body instead of “waste” as in my description of you saying “Waste of protoplasm”?

Oh, I live in Colorado Springs. Tell me where you would like to meet to make me “piss myself”! And bring your video camera so we can record you getting your ass handed to you. And, while I have no idea what color you are, it matters not to me. Whatever “racist taunts” you are referring to are mainly due to your own interpretation. I've not used any of the slurs that are commonly referred to as “racist”. However, if you want to consider the use of the word “monkey” to be “racist”. FIne. Your call. That is one term I use in-exclusively and would happily apply to people of any race when it seems that their minds are not quite fully developed. Oh, and if Obama can't eventually provide some convincing original documentation to prove he was “natural born” on US soil, the election was not legitimate. I don't think he is legitimate regardless of place of birth. He has been a dual citizen and he has been a citizen of Indonesia. And, again, I am not a Republican and have some real disagreements with a lot of what they stand for. As far as being unaware of your racial classification, I suppose a lot of what you have “shared” with us is not important enough for me to even care, and therefore I didn't consider it worth worrying about. Colorado Springs. Bring it on tough guy.

The liberal-left socialist dream scenario is “Monkeys running the zoo”. Of course the monkeys and the representatives of the monkeys will always vote for more bananas and nuts for monkeys no matter who has to pay for it. They also vote for open cage policies and against any policy that would require them to clean up their own shit or prevent them from flinging shit at non-monkeys.

Sounds great! Zoo anyone?

Oh, good.

Er, so why did you ignore the one above, and what twisted your tentacle into reading this one?

Yes, I noticed that although you say you ignore his comments, you can't seem to resist replying to them. What is your point? He's right and you hate that.

I just love it Tuci! There is blood in the water and I just love it. Keep up the good work! They hate facts.

That's a Mencken line.

“Democracy is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage.“

Well, socialism is ab ovo a kind of fantasy. As I've said, a fine system of economic organization for hive-dwelling insects, but a flaming catastrophe every time it's forced down upon autonomously reasoning, thinking human beings.

Which is why we get so much Orwellian DoubleThink out of these “political correctness” wastoids, isn't it?

It isn't vague threats that I post. It is sincere promises. We are about to play “Cowboys and Indians” only this time we are going to call it “Patriots and Commies”. The result will be the same though.

And in answer to that first part of your post above I would again pose the question: “What has he produced and who has seen it?” I saw an image of a “birth certificate” posted on the web at one point that purported to be Obama's. It was a piece of paper from a kindergarten kid's tablet and had scrawled on it with crayons, this: ” I was born in Hawaii!! No shit! Signed Barack Obama. Why don't you just link people to that? It is on the web and it is claimed to be real. I would end this with a personal insult or profanity but what the hell, we're just “all talk”. Right?

Let us take your phrase “National News in Context” and recall the many articles on how “The Rightists” propogate an idea from fringe to mainstream. Their approach still works.

The only viable response is to ignore them.

Let them overcook their stew and toss in random roadkill at their own campfire. Having fun at their expense just funds them.

Here's a little fact that refuses to go away: No law in this land requires any president to release his birth certificate to the general public. Want to prove me wrong? Just produce the birth certificate of any previous president.

When it came to the Bush administration there was no need for conspiracy or hyperbole. That boob rarely knew what he was saying; preferred exercise, sleep, and vacation to performance; and let thugs, like Cheney and Rumsfeld, and lawyers, like Gonzo, Yoo, and Miers, run the place and cover his ass. You really have to argue whether he was a sychophant or a figurehead, words he himself probably can't define or even spell.

Who do you think is building his library? Daddy is still calling in the chits. Do you think The Carlyle Group would let this past president even attend a meeting?

As for the “rot of political, social, [and economic discourse],” you can thank Rove, Kristol, Hume, Pearl, Wolfowitz, Feith, Abramson, Addington, and Abramowitz; how many crooks and liars does one need to prove that point?

The only positive result is that Dubya may have killed the Bush line. He certainly disabled it. Even Jeb will have a hard time in 2016. OK, let Neal run…

find a legality that would get him impeached.

I agree with your second paragraph.

I would say the problem with your first paragraph is that PMO is suffering from false equivalence syndrome, a common problem in the mainstream media.

Point us to one of your “sound praxeological arguments,” doofus.

All I see is you talking about monkeys with randypuppy the petticoat-pisser.

No. The only thing you noticed, randypuppy, is that no one thinks you're funny or remotely interesting, but some people are drawn to test-taker's bizarre personality defects.

No one responds to either of you on the notion that you're right about anything. We respond precisely because you are so wrong. It cries out for response. Sort of how you cry out in the night for your momma when you wet yourself dreaming about being bitten by monkeys.

You're both idiots. It's irresistable fun to point that out.

Like a boy poking about in a mucky swamp. It's just fun to stir up the ooze.

Plus, it's easier than just about anything else I could be doing, which is always appealing.

As long as you come out of this experience learning that a usurper is not the same thing as a de facto office holder, that's what matters most.

God knows you birthers could stand some exposure to a few opened books once in a while.

Link to the notion that he needs to produce something, randypuppy.

Oh, wait, I forgot. He doesn't need to produce anything besides a Presidential agenda. Good thing he's doing that.

Thanks for keeping the thread alive with the power of your giant intellect, petticoat-pisser.

“I've not used any of the slurs that are commonly referred to as 'racist.'”

Fail. I've posted a page full of your witticisms several times.

You took a whole paragraph to explain that you think “pantie” is a word. Nor do you know that “panty waist” is not a word.

You also explained that you do not know jack shit about U.S. citizenship law, since you think he's not legitimate regardless of whether he was born in the U.S.

All of this goes to show that whether you're talking about something frivolous or serious, you still don't know fuck about shit. You're still a juvenile doofus who tries to act tough and seems fixated with monkeys.

I have no plans to be in Colorado Springs at present but my parents have vacation property in Colorado. Post your email address here and I will make arrangements to videorecord the act of you running away from me like a GOP representative fleeing a journalist who wants to ask a question about birthers.

Whoa. No playing Cowboys & Indians, or Patriots & Commies, until you finish your homework and demonstrate that you understand the most basic point of being American.

If you're born in America, you're an American citizen, as natural born as anyone else.

I know you like playing games, randypuppy. Otherwise you'd never post any of your inane sore-loser empty promises (you'll see! the end is near! wait'll the American Grand Jury hears about this!).

Don't worry. We're all holding our breath waiting for you to learn anything about citizenship.

See here, neil.

If you're going to come in here and cast aspersions about the credibility of the website “Sweetness & Light,” it is incumbent on you to demonstrate how a mere President of the “United States” could possibly hope to achieve level stature with such an august publication.

Otherwise, your bias against “j-school jerkwads” is clouding your judgment. Surely the people at “Sweetness & Light” are motivated by objective, altruistic, nonpartisan ends. We already know, from the weight and fervency of the suspicion of towering intellects, that President Barack Hussein Obama hates white people and wants to rip apart the fabric of American economic and religious life.

I am surprised to see you take such an unjustified shot at an upstanding patriot like JamesWynn, who no doubt merely intended to add a bit of objective truth to what has previously been an unsolvable Constitutional crisis.

This could all be laid to rest so easily. If only Obama would show us his birth certificate. Seems simple enough to me!

What “right-wing ‘resolve to get the job done’?” stevie? Let me take you back to a top-secret, top-level meeting held among the Secret Masters of the Republican Party in January, 2008.

(( You can imagine it set at a resort on Jeckyll Island, just off the coast of Georgia, if you want to evoke the Federal Reserve’s Saruman to Washington City’s Mordor. ))

“Jeez, we’re well and truly fucked this November.”

“Yeah. We can’t keep this recession under wraps any longer. Dodd and Frank and Schumer and the rest of those bastards are engineering a whole series of bank failures. They’re obviously gonna ramp it up in the summer until the whole country is clutching its crotch and whimpering. We’re going down again this year.”

“Hm? Wait a minute. Why the hell should we want to win?”

“Whaddaya mean?”

“Let the shitwads across the aisle have it. The whole megillha. Both houses, the White House, total control. The whole damned economy is going down the tubes, right? It’s time for the ‘business cycle’ to bottom out. So we cut our losses and hand those fuckers the proverbial cement bicycle. Let them try to peddle it across the Pacific.”

“Yeah!”

“Could work.”

“Why not?”

“Okay, so who do we get to fake a run for the presidency? Who’s the one guy we’ve got that couldn’t win if we spent enough money to buy Illinois?”

“Oh, McCain. The base just hates that stupid clown. Gawd, I wish to hell the Democrats were dumb enough to run his clone in my state.”

“You got it. Crash Test Johnnie it is. Okay, you guys all got chips and drinks? Whose deal is it?”

“You are pushing middle-of-the-road people toward something they didn't want and when it gets to a point of them not being able to stand your shit anymore, it it going to get very nasty.”

Wrong yet again, randypuppy. “pushing middle-of-the-road people toward something the didn't want?” Nope.

Independents voted for Obama in huge numbers. That's why he had more than 7 million more votes than McCain.

See, President Obama won the election that haunts your nightmares precisely because middle-of-the-road people wanted him to win.

This comical idiocy of yours is matched only by your lip-quivering, petticoat-wetting attempt at brave puffery.

Only thing I’m on is simvastatin (Zocor), and the generic is pretty cheap. Have you tried Wal-Mart’s pharmacy?

And, let’s see, any content to address? Nope. See ya, stevie.

And get your blood pressure checked, damnit. I keep getting these visions of you slumped over your Commodore 64 and drooling into the keyboard until it shorts out, and you’re not only in for hemorrhagic stroke but third-degree facial burns….

Studiously elaborating on his theory that Barack Obama is secretly the cause of every ill to befall mankind throughout the ages, including without limitation using his spare moments to shove extra cholesterol into American food, Tuci78 below posits his Grand Speculation About Educating Black People At Ivy League Schools:

“How the hell d'you think Dubbya got into Yale, or into Harvard Business? Strings got pulled for Barry in pretty much the same way.” – Tuci78

George W. Bush's father was and is an old-money patrician. They have a family compound in Kennebunkport for God's sake. He sent his children to Andover and Yale because he had gone there. Yale took Dubya as a “legacy” which means “your grades suck but your dad's a Yalie. Keg's on the back patio.” Harvard Business took Dubya in and let him sit on the back bench in each class (where he would crack jokes and befriend people, later boasting of learning nothing except how to pass with C's) because they got a very stern look from the CIA director, who happened to be a Harvard man and happened to be Dubya's father.

This, to Tuci78's practiced medical eye, is the same thing as when:

(1) a black kid

(2) who is raised by his poor white grandparents,

(3) in Hawaii

(4) with an obscure white cultural anthropologist single mother and

(5) a dad whose claim to fame is being a son of goat-herders before becoming the first black guy on the U of Hawaii campus,

(6) goes to Columbia after transferring from Occidental,

(7) and then goes on to edit the Harvard Law Review (an unmatched prestigious position that is awarded by vote of one's peers).

If Tuci78 didn't pal around with randypuppy (“S'all good, bro', S'all good”), there would still be ample reason to doubt the sincerity of his posts. Luckily there's the infinitely-funnier association with randypuppy.

Dumb. Ass. Birther. Nutjobs. Will. Say. ANYTHING.

No previous president was half-African dual citizen at birth. No other president that I know of ever had a father or stepfather that was not an unquestioned American citizen. There was never another president other than Chester Arthur who ever even had a suspicion surrounding his native born status. The constitution requires that a a president be a natural born citizen. So go read the constitution. The law is there, it just wasn't enforced by the Senate or Congress or the Supreme Court. It isn't a matter of not having the law. It is a matter of enforcing it. The suspicion grows more widespread with each day that Obama and his lawyers refuse to release a copy of the original birth document or allow access to it. It is compounded by all the other secrecy of nearly every other aspect of Obama's life. It is just strange and people want to know. I am even seeing Democrats asking why he won't release documents. So there it is I guess, plainly put. Thank you for not being insulting. I appreciate your civility. A nice change.

How sad that this is the easiest thing you could think about doing. Really pathetic. Nothing you can say as an insult bothers me in the least. I've figured you out. This is your big chance to be assertive and threatening without having to be man enough to back anything up with some balls. Pathetic. Fact is: NO LONG FORM COLB SO SHUT THE FUCK UP! NOTHING HAS BEEN SHOWN. OBAMA IS LYING.

Regardless of that, though, there is still no law that requires any president to release his birth certificate to the general public. And as long as the state of Hawaii says he's a natural-born citizen, that means he is, thanks to the 10th and 14th Amendments to the Constitution.

Link to this. Link to that. Fucking net-nerd. Get a fucking life will you! Why don't you just put on women's clothing and hang around in bars as is your usual tendency I suspect. Do you really believe everything you think? Oh and go make sure you spelled “petticoat” correctly. This is really important for this discussion. Presidential agenda? How does Tuci put it? Poverty Pimp? He just needs the purple hat! Empty suit. Narcissist liar. Criminal. That is what he is and nothing more.

Hey, CAPSLOCK is really persuasive, tiger. Better save it for when you need it.

You know, since nothing I can say bothers you in the least and all.

Sorry to break it to you. You weren't real convincing, tiger. Either in the brave puffery or in the pseudo-argument contained in the capslock portion of your whiny rant.

Even the Wall Street Journal disposes of the birther argument, doofus, and it's owned by Rupert Murdoch. Get someone to read this to you:

“Whether out of ignorance or dishonesty, they misrepresent the law at every turn. Back in November, as we noted, the birthers were claiming that the Supreme Court had ordered Obama to “prove” his eligibility for the presidency. In fact, all that had happened was that a lawyer had asked the high court to hear an appeal of a lower court’s decision throwing out his frivolous lawsuit for lack of standing. The justices, of course, denied the petition, and all such lawsuits have been summarily dismissed for lack of standing. The law is the law.

The birthers have also misrepresented the law in the claims they have made about Obama’s birth certificate. In truth, Obama has proved that he is a native of Hawaii, and this proof would hold up in any legal or administrative proceeding.

In order to explain the birthers’ deception on this point, it is necessary to delve into the arcana of Hawaiian vital records. The document that Obama has released, which carries the title “certification of live birth,” confirms that the president was born in Honolulu. It is a legal birth certificate, and, as the Honolulu Star-Bulletin notes, it is the only kind of birth certificate the state of Hawaii issues.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702…

Hope you brought a change of petticoats, loser. I'm sure you wet yourself again when you finished having that read to you.

Still think you've “figured me out?” You're as wrong about me as you are about U.S. citizenship law. Go back to fantasizing about what you could do with a monkey if you got it all alone.

“Link to this. Link to that.” Who needs facts and evidence for the nonsense you pull out of your ass when you can play Cowboys & Indians and Patriots & Commies, right, randypuppy?

Here's a hint, randypuppy. If you're online, reading what someone wrote online, then YOU ARE ONLINE TOO. Fucking net-idiot.

If anyone would be wearing women's clothing, it'd be you.

You ask me whether I believe everything I think. Your problem is you don't think everything you believe. Read it again. Okay get someone to help with the long words.

“Your a waste of salt.” Seriously, let's ignore the grammatical error. How does salt figure into that insult you tried to sling? Roman soldiers got paid in salt. Who else? Is it your contention that mantis is a Roman soldier? Do you think Obama pays bloggers in salt?

Really, this salt insult is more interesting than solving your superficial riddles, like:

–why do you write such stupid things? (because you're stupid);

–how come you can't tell that your arguments are stupid? (see above);

–why do you even suck at slinging racist insults? (because you're obsessed with fucking monkeys);

–how come you're always writing about “butt buddies” and other gay things? (because you're a homosexual without any chance to act on it);

–how come you make silly vague threats and talk about the coming civil war and other such nonsense? (because you're desperately, wretchedly, sad and alone and need to feel powerful).

Back to the “Your a waste of salt” business, lad. What's the meaning? Come on! Tell us what you were getting at.

“No previous president was half-African dual citizen at birth.”

That's your problem, isn't it, randypuppy. This is the first thing you wrote in your post, and for good reason. It's because the President is African and yet he won't help you catch any wild monkeys and bring them to your bedroom for your pleasure, isn't it?

Racist doofus.

Done it. You sloughed. So sorry, stevie! You put up socialist bullshit (or even just the plain old bullshit you always put up), and I'll put before the constitutionalist readers “the common sense of the subject, in terms so plain and firm as to command their assent.”

Er, that's Thomas Jefferson, stevie.

Where's that email address, randypuppy? Doesn't have to be your real name.

I'm sure your email address is “bigbossman14 at yahoo dot com” or something like that anyway.

What are you afraid of? I'll bring a videocamera so that at the very least, whatever happens, there will be witnesses and evidence. That's more than you birthers have now…

*crickets*

Hey, test-taker, don’t blame me for RandWulf’s words.

He is the one who said the right wing had the “weapons, military training, and resolve to get the job done.”

I was just quoting him.

Now then, your little imagined scenario is not at all far-fetched. I’ve often wondered along those lines. Like, for instance, the day I saw Sarah Palin give her first interview.

I think the Republicans didn’t “throw” the election. But a lot of people didn’t try real hard. Some of those people who didn’t try, didn’t try because they weren’t enthused about McCain.

But a lot of people who otherwise wouldn’t try, DID try, because they hate Obama. *cough*

So I think it’s sort of a wash. Bottom line, I know the Republicans as a party are MUCH happier not having the White House keys. They can thus squabble for provincial rights and bitch about whatever the WH does. They can increase their little southern fiefdoms and not worry about the effect of their ridiculous pork barrel spending that Old Man McCain was always on about.

And I’m sure there are quite a few Bush people who were glad to see McCain get smeared with the Bush name as he tried to run away from Bush’s shadow.

Anyway, there’s a lot of plausibility to what you imagined.

Ack! Lightning is about to strike.

Ha! You're not only not willing to provide any proof for your arguments…

But now you're not willing to prove that you've MADE arguments?

Fascinating.

Aw, geek. I'm relying on your Mombasa Messiah's spectacular narcissistic personality disorder. The noise keeps on going, and going, and Energizer Bunny going, and eventually he either uncorks or takes a nice, fatal overdose.

Or somebody else uncorks. No honor among thieves, y'know.

Well, keep a good fantasy going, I guess. What are you going to be thinking when it hasn't happened by January 20, 2017? And why do you think it hasn't happened by now?

Oh, you can take that “Republicans threw the election” to the bank, stevie.

With all that TARP counterfeit currency flooding into the financial markets, you could probably collateralize it for a cool half-a-million.

If the Secret Masters of the Republican Conspiracy had really wanted to win last November, they would’ve schemed Mitt Romney into the nomination.

Remember the past half-century of Republican candidates, stevie. The ones with Good Hair are the ones who tend most reliably to win.

Guys suitable for making Viagra commercials (doddering, half-dead Senators like Crash Test Johnnie and BobDole) don’t.

Whenever considering Republicans, stevie, I learned back in ’71 that the key question is always:

“How low can they go?”

How bout you post YOUR e-mail address here and I will contact you with a plan to allow you to get your ass kicked. This is just a hobby for me and I'm glad to oblige your request but I don't want every twisted lib-monkey in the country clogging up my e-mail to tell me whatever their festering little minds require them to tell me. Again. Not GOP.

Monkeys are just a good metaphor for what I'm running into in the left-leaning population these days. Really, I have nothing against monkeys in general. My grandfather worked for the National Geographic for many years and actually had a pet monkey from Africa that I found quite amusing. But he had a certificate from the import authorities that made it legal for him to have it. Department of Agriculture I believe. But then, they have always done a better job than the immigration department.

“(1) a black kid

(2) who is raised by his poor white grandparents,

(3) in Hawaii

(4) with an obscure white cultural anthropologist single mother and

(5) a dad whose claim to fame is being a son of goat-herders before becoming the first black guy on the U of Hawaii campus,

(6) goes to Columbia after transferring from Occidental,

(7) and then goes on to edit the Harvard Law Review (an unmatched prestigious position that is awarded by vote of one's peers).”

Well. That's affirmative action for you.

Nah. Barry:

(1) Is mostly white, some Arab (the same people who sold most American blacks' West African ancestors into slavery) and a bitty-bit Luo tribesman (East African, the difference between Barry's people and American blacks being like the difference between, say, a Greek and a Swede, meaning “not even remotely the same language, religion, culture, or living environment”)

(2) was raised by socialist grandparents, after having been sired upon a socialist mommy, making him a third-generation “red diaper baby”

(3) spent his ealy childhood years in Indonesia, attending school as an Indonesian national, learning Arabic and memorizing the Qu'uran

(4) with a socialist mother who slept around a lot and wanted nothing to do with raising him

(5) a putative biological father who ran around on all his wives (Stanley Ann Dunham seemed to have been his second), drank heavily, and finished up as a failed bureaucrat in Kenya, probably bumped off in a political dispute

(6) goes from his “poor white” background to Occidental College, and then to Columbia University, finishes up with a cruddy cume that couldn't get him into Enormous State University Close-Cover-Before-Striking School of Law, works a while as a “poverty pimp” in Chicago, takes long, expensive trips abroad, and then somehow comes up with the money to pay his way through (much less get accepted at) the ultra-prestigious Law School on the Cambridge campus of Patrice Lumumba University (formerly known as “Harvard”), and to this day nobody knows where the hell he got the money for all this, 'cause he sure as hell didn't report it on his financial background disclosures when he slimed into Washington City as a U.S. Senator

(7) and gets token'd into editing the Harvard Law Review without producing any significant body of student writing during his time in Cambridge.

I know I've missed a bunch, but hey, go to http://www.colony14.net/id41.html and enjoy.

There's a lot you can learn about Barry, “sealed” records and history and childhood medical records in Kenya and all.

Isn’t that what’s so weird about the lie(s)?
Dan Armstrong says he worked down the hall from President Obama during his days at the “consulting house” (ehem) newsletter publisher so I guess the ball is in Obama’s court now. McCarthy compares this with the media’s treatment for Obama’s “first pitich” in which he stood in front of the pitcher’s mound and the catcher stood in front of the home plate and the President threw like a girl…yet the throw HAD to be presented “decent” and “over the plate”. It reminds me of Stalin and Saddam who ensured they were always presented as “all wise”, “all intelligent”, “all capable”. A woman who was a little girl under Stalin said she believed he could have been a surgeon or a test pilot or anything, if he had chosen to do that instead of making Soviets miserable.

Incidentally, why doesn’t the President release his transcripts at Columbia? (http://www.nysun.com/new-york/obamas-years-at-columbia-are-a-mystery/85015/) Why does he keep the articles he authored at the Harvard Law Review so hush-hush (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12705.html). Bush’s transcripts were released, you know. You don’t always have to be a genius to get ahead; sometimes being obessively driven, smooth, and good looking are enough. Nor does being a genius make you wise or ethical. One can get ahead in politics (the HR position is an elected position), by being cunning (as commentators said of GWBush regarding his political successes).

You're overanalyzing. I see your comments all the time and simply gloss over them most of the time. I just didn't this time.

I find it strange that you entertain yourself by getting into Internet fights with 1 or 2 people over and over again. If you feel so passionate about the subject, you'd get the attention of more people if you actually stuck to the subject at hand to make your points. Are you here because you have information you want people to have about your point of view, or because you have some emotional problem for which getting into child-like insult wars with strangers on the Internet is your venting mechanism?

randypuppy, “your a pathetic waste of salt.”

You haven't responded to the serious posts with “links to this and links to that” but you try to puff out your chest and talk tough about a plan to allow me to get my ass kicked? That's a laugh!

Gee, I'd be worried if I didn't know that you're such a dumbass. You'd first have to stop sniffing your fingers and lighting your farts, to be able to come up with a plan to do anything.

You claim to be 54 years old and a Marine. I'd buy the 54 years old part…

But you write like a boy and think like a bestial pervert. You have neither decency, honor, bravery, courage, nor intelligence, so I doubt seriously that you are a Marine or any military officer, as you claim to be.

I'm not worried about a doofus like you being able to kick my ass. You're afraid of your own shadow. Plus you're preoccupied with monkeys.

But I've created an email address that you can use to contact me and set up whatever plan you have. I hope it's not that civil-war reenactment you predicted earlier.

Here's the address:

randwulfisamonkey@gmail.com

Oh, and I liked the part about how this is a “hobby” for you. None of us was under the illusion that you are paid for your thoughts as expressed on these boards.

Carry on, soldier boy!

Oh, one more thing. You and your “plan” to allow me to get my ass kicked… Whatever happened to that bullshit you wrote about how nothing I could ever insult you with would ever affect you at all? Dumb. Ass.

Don't forget to write!

What “Internet fights,” neil? And I'm counting a generous more than “1 or 2″ Obamaphiles doing their “left-wing blogger” duties under “team leader” stevie here on Weigel's pro-Messiah excuse for reporting on the conservative opposition to the Anointed One's plans to ram these United States through a meatgrinder until only chaos and devastation is left.

I'm just having fun. They want to shove their hands into the Osterizer, I'm happy to hit “Frappe” and watch their fingers go flying.

“Whee! Blood all over the bulkheads!”

(( And that quote, dear readers, is from Robert A. Heinlein's The Rolling Stones (1952). ))

And, what, I'm not getting enough “attention” now, playing Whack-a-Mole on the Obamaphiles? Look, neil, I'm here for the proverbial “fun, chalk, or marbles.” Ain't no big deal.

If in the process, readers drawn to Mr. Weigel's stuff pick up something they enjoy or can use (and, yeah, I know that most people already predisposed to read Mr. Weigel's work on this Web site are of the obdurately obtuse “Liberal” persuasion, and emphatically do not want a literate and articulate constitutionalist posting argument they can neither refute nor shout down), that's to the good, but it's not my primary purpose.

And my insults are purely incidental, neil. You're mixing me up with the Obamaphiles, who commonly post nothing but insults.

That I do insults better than they do should surprise you? Invective is itself a well-developed form of the literary art.

And you'd think that an “ex-English major” like little stevie would show some greater aptitude for it, wouldn't you?

randypuppy, you don't know anything about affirmative action.

Nor do you have any knowledge whatsoever that affirmative action had anything to do with any part of Obama's scholastic career.

Nor do you have any evidence of the same.

It's abundantly clear that you're a doofus. But what I cannot figure out is why you refuse to answer the many posts that present excerpts from conservative publications (followed by “links to this and links to that”) and then ask you serious questions.

I can only conclude that it is because you are preoccupied with monkeys and what all those busy monkey hands would feel like.

Regardless, I did respond to your request for an email address at which you can contact me and discuss your plans for world domination and getting humiliated on video.

Just to save you the effort, here's the email address I created for you to use when contacting me:

randwulfisamonkey@gmail.com

Don't forget to write, goober!

What are your thoughts about the Univ. of Chicago Law School, Tuci? I didn't notice any slur against them in there. Not sure if the omission is deliberate.

Just curious.

He has explained that his purpose here is to “irritate and annoy” or otherwise “rattle the gerbil cages” of “butt-sucking Obamaphiles,” if that helps you at all, Neil.

Of course, I don't accept that at face value. He's obviously here for a combination of the 2, but you have to ask, what's the venting mechanism venting?

Racism.

What else? He does this to satisfy his ego. He thinks of himself as SO much smarter than the Obamaphiles (and “chuckles” and randypuppy and their ilk as well). It satisfies him to smirk and use obscure references, freed from having to take any response seriously or to present evidence for his own ridiculous assertions. All he has to do is state his nonsense in the most stilted, ridiculously ornate language possible, while constantly puffing up his credentials as a doctor.

What else? I sense a deep, gnawing hunger inside. Some long-unfulfilled desire or expectation. He is consequently unsatisfied within and is taking it out on the world around him.

Anti-government paranoia that is comical in proportion. Belief in the flimsiest speculation in line with his suspicion but disregarding the most solid evidence that contradicts it. Absurd insults against everyone and their mother, literally in the case of Obama and Stanley Ann.

He's just an all around interesting guy, even if none of the above is correct. That's our test-taker.

I don't know much more about the University of Chicago Law School than that Epstein has been on the faculty for a number of years. And my personal experience with UCLS graduates is pretty much nil. Believe it or not, I've gotten to know some several guys out of Notre Dame Law, but none who'd made mention of spending time in the Windy City.

The University of Chicago is well known, of course, as a center of monetarist economic theory, and I've worked with some docs who'd come out of the Pritzker School of Medicine (and they were very sharp clinicians).

Isn't the Pritzker Military Library affiliated with the University of Chicago? Or is it entirely a “free-standing” institution? Some excellent talks there.

Sorry, that's all I can come up with. For some reason – odd now that I think back on it – I've only been in Chicago perhaps three or four times in my whole life, and then only for meetings and conferences and suchlike. It surprised me with what I came to see as a very friendly, almost “small town” ambiance. Nice restaurants, decent convention facilities, and that big, big lake right smack dab in the front yard. Not at all like Wichita, stevie!

Careful or your description of Chicago will be used to impeach any future references to Chicago as a den of thievery and crooks.

My best friend from college went on to Notre Dame Law School. I visited her there a few times when our football teams played each other. I don't know anything much about NDLS other than its ranking and reputation.

I was curious about your thoughts about U of Chicago, precisely because of its status as the preeminent place to study the economic philosophy of law if you're a conservative. I couldn't really imagine you having a string of invective about that school, but was curious.

Thanks.

Post nothing but insults?

I take offense to that. I and other non-birthers post many facts, citations to authority, and compelling logic. Some of us post insults, many do not.

And besides, if you'll be honest, the insults are often quite instructive.

Aw, stevie. You oughta know by now that “Works and Plays Well With Others” was the one report card tick-off that never came in any color other than red for me.

“For heaven's sake, young man, do you have to win every argument?”

“If I'm right, why shouldn't I?”

“And what makes you think you're right all the time?”

“Uh, because I work real hard at being right?”

“Hunfh!”

Really not fair to put girls with no more than the usual State Normal School education up against even a third-grader when the third-grader is spending his evenings reading his father's old college and grad-school textbooks.

I ain't got any “jealous” in me. Not even when I've gotta walk past the cardiologists' bloatmobiles in the hospital parking lot. I do fine with a Honda, and I haven't had anybody break into it or try to steal it or do anything other than draw “Wash Me!” in the crud on the passenger windows.

As for your appeals to authority… Er, counselor, you are aware that such is in itself a logical fallacy unless your authority citations can stand up to scrutiny a reliable and impartial sources?

Hm. Did you do debate in high school,” stevie? Really.

“I'm not a Republican you stupid douche. We won't put up with the shit that they will. They are fucking pussies. Your a pathetic waste of salt.” –randypuppy Randwulf, 1 day ago
________________________________

“Ah, so you're right-wing (they have neato weapons, military training, and resolve to lose an election in high style), but you're not Republican.

Are you a member of Tuci78's band of loyal libertarians? S'all good, bro', S'all good. Even though you don't know what libertarianism is, and even though Tuci78 is well aware of your ignorance, I'm sure he enjoys your wit. Just hope he doesn't call you “chuckles” in a moment of candor, like he did to naturalborn.

But I digress from my main point. randypuppy, who's 'we' in the 'we won't put up with the shit that they will?'

'Your a pathetic waste of salt.'

Could the two of you maybe spring for a dictionary instead of blowing your budget on salt and a book about how to bring about a civil war through interpretive dance?”–stephenperry, 9 hours ago
_____________________

Sorry to do this to you, randypuppy, but you didn't answer me. I want to know, who's “we?”

And you never answered me about that stupid salt insult you tried to sling.

So, DO you think mantis is a Roman soldier or Obama blogger who is paid in salt, you doofus, or do you have some other explanation for saying something so asinine?

Come on, randypuppy. Never mind what you said about how MY insults don't affect you. Yours make me laugh. But I want an answer. What the fuck were you thinking? Oh yeah and answer my serious posts too. But really just who's we? and what's with the salt?

Damn. Only meant to emphasize the “Did” there. Sorry.

Oh, yeah. I'm a racist, big and bad / Got it from my mom and dad / Voted Wallace, marched in line / Holding up a picket sign / Don't want aliens in my town / Gonna burn their churches down…

And so on and so forth. Jeez, stevie, don't you ever get chafed, rubbing your thighs together like that?

Look, I'm Sicilian. Back in the Old Country, we're what the mainlanders call i mulignane – “the eggplants” – on account of so many invaders from the northern coast of Africa came through raping and otherwise pollinating our population that a helluva lot of us are more “authentically black” than either you or your Messiah might be.

Italians from il Mezzogiorno – the southern provinces – are notorious for their lack of xenophobia. You want to read Thomas Sowell's Ethnic America and find out what he discovered about us Guineas and our reactions to American blacks when my grandparents came over the water around 1900?

The crackers had to take my people aside and counsel them.

“Y'know, Guido, y'all are purdy much awl raght, even if y' are Catholics, but y' gotta understand our special relationship with th' nigras 'round hyar. Y'see, we live with 'em, but not really with. Y' catch muh meanin'?”

And Grandpa Guido blinked a couple of times, hesitated, and nodded very slowly, backing away and thinking thoughts like Tutti gli Americani son' pazzi! Madonna!“

And when you get solid evidence – as in print-on-paper, signed and sealed, certified as to its “genuineness or non-genuineness” by competent and impartial forensic documents examiners records or attestations of such records' true contents regarding the birth of your Mombasa Messiah, you just swing on by with 'em and I'll try to get them in front of a judge before you can say: “Impeach the motherfucker!”

Well, I'm much less a conservative (read F.A. von Hayek's essay at the close of The Constitution of Liberty [1960], “Why I Am Not a Conservative“) than a small-”L” libertarian.

The monetarists are not precisely what I'd call wholly praxeologically sound, but Epstein certainly shows great strengths. I don't agree with him on all issues, but I can tell that he's given the intellectual side of all the matters he's addressed an extremely hard-headed regard. Not just theoretically robust, but with a keen eye for the practicable. What a Supreme Court Justice he would make!

As for the University of Chicago and the Cook County political machine…

Dunno. Have they any relationship, apart from the exploitation of every institution in Chicago (up to and including Pizzeria Uno) for the purposes of political patronage?

Here's randypuppy, 2 weeks ago. I present it for your educational benefit, so that you can see how a fine upstanding 54 year old Marine military officer comports himself.

Also because randypuppy's own words make him look worse than mine ever could.

Anyway, here's the little monkey-fondling scamp:

“Wow. Well, I may have to re-think my earlier assertion that I am (or was) a “good American”. After reading all of this drivel today, I am totally convinced that it's all a lost cause. What a bunch of TV inspired SMARTA$$ES. American is done. At least 52% doomed. The monkey majority is now running the zoo. What made the US a great nation is gone. What has always been it's main weakness now is a dominant force. You're all (or at least 52%) brain-washed main-stream-media zombies. All you can see is your stupid little Demican/Republicrat world. You are all (DEMS and REPUBS) controlled by forces you can't see and don't understand. Just a bunch of stupid Goyim. You really don't deserve a country any more. Go ahead. Self destruct. Whatever. There's no way to fix it. You're fat. You're stupid. You're ugly. You're misbegotten and badly bred. You have no morals. You have no courage. You have no work ethic. Your kids can't read. And if they could, they'd read garbage. They don't know math. They don't know science. They know no real history. They only know how to dress like “gangsta” and talk jive. They are filled with “political correctness” though. Great. Fine. The end.

Rome took a couple of centuries to go from a world super power to a decadent, powerless, mish-mash shithole. We (or you rather) will accomplish the same feat in a couple of decades. I secede. I don't want anything to do with you mongrel, perverts. Just keep printing up that funny money and throwing it around like idiots. More national debt will only hasten the decline. You all deserve the lying, crooked and evil government you have allowed to be created here. And now you can just sink into the $hit with it. If you listen very closely, you can hear the Gods, and the rest of the world laughing. Disgusting monkeys.” –Randwulf, 2 weeks ago

Ain't he something? Can you “hear the Gods, and the rest of the world laughing?” Who are these “Gods,” randypuppy? Do any of them live in your washing machine?

I just assumed you'd find some taint in the fact that Obama taught at U of C…

I forgot.

A couple people took offense to randypuppy's “stupid Goyim you don't deserve a country” rant.

They told him so.

Here's his response:

“Well I'm just all broken up about your “retraction”. And as far as being an “asshole”, you ain't seen nothing yet! I don't need your f@cking approval. I've EARNED my right to say what I think. I was a part of your sick system for years. I want nothing more than to see it all fall and burn now. It's like living in a ghetto. The best thing that could happen is for a bulldozer to just scrape it up and bury it in a landfill, detox the land and start over again with something useful. You all like to say that if we don't like Obama, it is just because he is Black. You never talk about the percentage of Black voters that voted for him being 95%. I'm pretty sure they voted for him in those numbers entirely BECAUSE he is Black and not so much for any other reason. Sounds pretty “racist” to me. The only reason no judge has yet ordered his records produced in one of these lawsuits is that none of them have wanted to be the one who initiates the race war that will surely ensue once that is done. I don't give a $hit! I say LET ER RIP! It will be more fun that fishing with dynamite!” –randypuppy Randwulf, 2 weeks ago

The “birther” controversy caught my attention as a lawyer simply as an area of somewhat arcane law, but the more I looked into the legal caselaw, foreign law, factual research and history, the more I became intrigued. Bottom line came down to this:

IF Obama's parents were actually married and it were to be deemed a “legal marriage” under Hawaiian law, then he would likely be ineligible by reason of his self-admitted dual citizenship. Everything points to that being the outcome if an “originalist” approach is taken to the Framers' intentions when drafting the Constitution in 1787. In that era, a woman's citizenship tracked that of her husband; an “original” citizenship of a woman was extinguished if she married a foreign national; dual citizenship was considered a “blight” and generally went unrecognized in the law by all nations, and the nationality and domicile of wife and children automatically tracked the husband/father. Indeed, it was not until 6 years after Obama's birth in 1961, and with the Afroyim case at the U.S. Supreme Court in 1967, that dual citizenship became permissible for American citizens as a result of judge-made law. It was four and a half decades earlier, in 1922, when American women were lawfully permitted to retain their birthright citizenship upon marrying a foreign national. In line with there being more attention focused on suffrage issues in that era.

IF Obama's parents were never married — whether by operation of “fact” inasmuch as no marriage certificate has been unearthed in the town on another island where the ceremony allegedly took place in February 1961 or by operation of “law” arising from bigamy/nullification of the Hawaiian marriage inasmuch as British colonial Kenya had a dual system of legally recognized “customary marriages” (tribal and no paper trail and an “allowance” for multiple wives) and “statutory marriages” (conventional Western-style propositions with marriage licenses and a requirement of monogamy) — then he's a natural born citizen.

Although much is made of the writings of deVattel in his 1700's treatises (various translations over the years from 1758 onward) by some of the legal scholarship pursuing the “natural born” issue, claiming that the Framers “adopted” his definition, and to make the point that both parents need to be U.S. citizens at the time of birth to render their offspring “natural born” even when there is birth (“native” born) on American soil, there is far more weight lent to the notion that the term was “sui generis” among the Framers themselves. That becomes obvious if one delves into the archives of George Washington's correspondence from the time of the Revolutionary War and onward, with particular attention to the other Framers with whom his letters were exchanged. The letters point to his dissatisfaction with enlistees in his Army who either came from abroad or who had tenuous connection to American soil (sans parentage, or wife and children and other family, or property ownership in an American colony giving them a “stake” to be defended). Washington's correspondence tracks an evolutionary process by which enlistees were better screened to avoid problems with spies and intentionally waylaid military communications that had seen battle plans fall into the wrong hands. Early battles were lost due to the enemy knowing of American revolutionaries' plans in advance. Decisions on enlistees and promotions in military rank increasingly looked to “the ties that bind” and create a presumption of undivided loyalty. The cumulative effect is such as to clearly point to “divided national allegiance” being deemed an unnatural and abhorrent condition, and just as it came to impair one's standing in matters military when the war was being waged, it logically came to be viewed as impairing eligibility for the highest office.

The generally applicable legal rule of that era would have been “partus sequitur patrem” but with a notable exception. If a woman was not wed at the time of a child's birth, then the legal rule would confer the mother's citizenship upon a child. “Ejus, qui justum patrem non habet, prima 'origo a matre.”

Good reading material for the serious scholar interested in delving back to originalist material would be Ramsey's histories of early colonies through Revolutionary War, Confederation, and Constitional republic and both of Joseph Story's works consisting of Joseph Story's Commentaries and Story's Conflict of Laws.

Since colonial Kenya and the U.K. would quite likely have recognized Obama Sr.'s tribal marriage, even if there was a marriage license eventually located to back up the uncontested claims in Stanley Ann Obama's petition for divorce in 1964, it is likely the Hawaiian “marriage” would be a nullity because the U.S. and Hawaii would have recognized a foreign marriage which a foreign government itself “recognized” to be valid.

In weighing which part of his personal history would be more offensive, Obama had to choose whether he was a “bastard who made good” (with unwed parenthood seen as a scourge in the black community) or whether he was a “legitimated child with dual citizenship” (with only Constitutional lawyers such as himself aware of the legal pitfalls and nuanced historical statutes, cases, correspondence). He opted to spin himself as having had married parents (in “Dreams from my Father”) but as this issue was heating up in summer of 2008, it was his wife Michelle who made the telling remarks about Dunham being “very young” and “very single” when he was born.

He's likely natural born. His policy decrees and administration-pushed legislative initiatives should occupy far more time and energy of those who care about what made the U.S.A. great in the first place.

Tuci78,

You're stuck in the same kind of abstract framework that true socialists find themselves in. Your understanding of human nature and existence, and your proposed solutions, are not based in reality.

Just as a socialist assumes that people are always good and selfless, and that collective interests can be advanced in all cases and without limits, without oppressing the individual, so you assume that any politician who tries to help poor people, or even professes interest in doing so, is in reality always corruptly trying to win votes and accrue power. Just as a socialist naively believes that man can create a social/political/economic utopia, so do you believe (seemingly) that free markets and less government are always and only the proper way to order our affairs.

Both of these approaches are extreme, “always/never” thinking. Both are mental constructs that deny reality and lead to unnecessary suffering.

Also, your definition of socialism is too broad. “Socialism” refers to government/collective ownership of the means of production. Your use of the term is a rhetorical bait-and-switch. Your audience hears “socialism” and is supposed to think of the cold war, and the fight against international socialism in the form of the USSR, a state any reasonable person would agree was totalitarian and evil. You want people to hear “socialism” and think of “totalitarianism.” You want people to jump from “community organizer” to “despot.” But welfare programs and other attempts to help poor people aren't despotism. They have their problems, but they aren't despotic, and the suffering of the poor is real, no matter what social class they came from.

Finally, you couldn't be a successful physician your whole life and be the misanthrope you portray yourself to be. You're goading people here and having a good time of it. Easy enough when people only appear as a few alphanumeric characters, and you can be a pseudonym.

Also, so what if something called the “Cloward-Piven Strategy” exists? Just because someone talked about doing something 43 years ago doesn't make it a grand strategy that's finally coming to fruition today. That's ridiculous.

It's like saying that the fall of communism is part of a great big conspiracy just because Kruschev or whoever said that they would make unprecedented overtures of peace and warm relations just to take advantage of our complacency.

Sorry, that was supposed to be posted down a ways. Some moderator needs to delete this one.

Also, so what if something called the “Cloward-Piven Strategy” exists? Just because someone talked about doing something 43 years ago doesn't make it a grand strategy that's finally coming to fruition today. That's ridiculous.

It's like saying that the fall of communism is part of a great big conspiracy just because Kruschev or whoever said that they would make unprecedented overtures of peace and warm relations just to take advantage of our complacency.

In the era of analog displays, we used to say “Even a stopped clock can be right twice a day.”

Buy you, stevie?

Think digital stopped clock.

You just keep displaying a blank screen.

Wow.

You wrote a thousand words about an issue that is totally irrelevant to citizenship.

You nowhere attempt to disprove that Obama was born in Hawai'i. THAT is the only issue relevant to this discussion. If he was born there, he's legitimate. If he was not, he is not legitimate.

You end by saying he's “likely natural born.” Gee, thanks for the help, Mister Barrister.

Welcome to the thread. Now can we have the benefit of some links to evidence that actually bears on the citizenship issue? You know, for the “serious scholar?”

Little stevie, on your non-participation in high school debate team, I made a presumptive diagnosis. One always seeks confirmation (or rule-out evidence) to test the viability of presumptive diagnoses.

So did you participate in debate team when you were in high school? Your reluctance to confirm or deny continues to indicate that you did not, and you’re reluctant to admit it because that failure (or inability) to participate embarrasses you.

C’mon, strevie; “acknowledge reality.”

Couldn't agree more. What kind of doctor mocks handicapped people? That is more offensive than the garbage about “Barry Soetero,” the nonsensical paranoia about government, and the endless distortion of socialism that spew from the test-taker's keyboard.

So…what you're saying is… I was right about you?

Yes? Okay good.

Moving on…

Eh.. A week ago you were certain I did NOT participate in debate in high school.

Now you're asking whether I did.

Seems like your estimation of my abilities is increasing.

Now if only we could get you to acknowledge reality.

Like, for instance, the President is a legitimately elected man who isn't just waiting for the right moment to open Pandora's Box and steal Christmas from libertarians who have Hondas with dusty windshields.

Not particularly. I just tend to speculate on what might have been the prevailing atmosphere when Barry bumped into Epstein at a faculty mixer or other sort of meeting.

I can picture Epstein displaying professional cordiality. Barry Soetoro would just lie his way through the encounter, the way he's lied through everything else in his miserable little life.

Gives one cause to appreciate the probable reason why an Alinsky ACORN “community organizer” (also known as a “poverty pimp”) would chose to specialize in constitutional law.

“Looking for loopholes,” wasn't he, counselor?

As for his “policy decrees and administration-pushed legislative initiatives,” let us not so hastily conclude that they are in any way beneficial when every sound economic analysis thereof demonstrates that their malignancy is extraordinary, and that their dislocative and destructive impacts will be agonizing, crippling, and impoverishing for all Americans not politically “connected” to the channels of plunder and pillage Mr. Soetoro is “servicing.”

Nah. The “true socialists” work from the strange premise that wealth – real wealth, which consists of goods and services that genuinely accrue to improvement in quality of life – is not something created through voluntary thought and effort, but rather something that simply is, and which must be “redistributed” to achieve the socialist's vision of “social justice.”

The socialist is not a creator of anything – except as one may speak of “creating” chaos and misery and faction-fighting in the heated politicization of social intercourse implicit in socialist “economic organization” – but rather a parasite, a predator, a pillager. The socialist feeds upon the productive, and relies in democratic polities upon the unthinking appetites of people who desire to “vote themselves a living.”

Per Bastiat, “Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.”

The socialists are merely the latest – since the early 19th Century – cadre of megalomaniacs and thieves to exploit this “great fiction.”

This being understood, your attempt to tar me with the same brush you stroke so lightly and approvingly over the socialists comes to naught. The socialist, you see, emphatically does not assume “that people are always good and selfless” but rather that they are selfish and greedy, and must always be held under systems of strict and harsh regimentation by the “enlightened” and the “socially conscious.”

And, of course, the “enlightened” and “socially conscious” visionaries – those “favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately” – are the socialists.

How nice. For the socialists.

There is no “bait and switch” involved in my appreciation of socialism. Being “a little bit socialist” is like (the proverbial) “being a little bit pregnant.”

One is either free in the marketplace to buy and sell, truck and barter, or one is not. The limitations – the “regulations” – imposed by third parties like civil government can be beneficial if they function as precautions against the violation of market participants' rights through force or fraud, but most socialists so intervene to secure what are (to them) “optimal outcomes.”

In other words, the socialist decides what he would like to see resulting in market transactions, and so directs the government's “goons with guns” to compel actions which he thinks will secure those outcomes.

“Picking winners.”

Again, evoking Bastiat:

“But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.

“Then abolish this law without delay, for it is not only an evil itself, but also it is a fertile source for further evils because it invites reprisals. If such a law — which may be an isolated case — is not abolished immediately, it will spread, multiply, and develop into a system.“

And that system – even in Bastiat's time – was socialism.

As for my status as “a successful physician” and a misanthrope…

Well, success is a relative proposition. I ain't rich, and likely never will be, unless the lottery tickets my office manager demands I throw in upon whenever the girls get together to buy them comes up really big. And I'm definitely a misanthrope, though my patients seem to think (and they're right) that I'm a cranky old sonofabitch on their side, come hell or high water.

It seems to work for me. For you? Like I care?

Aw, stevie. I used to know a nun who'd gotten her M.D. and worked her way through a residency, and practiced in the Indian Health Service. And she had some of the best “patient-as-GOMER” jokes you ever heard.

Or never heard. Or never would hear. Doctors have “in-jokes,” you silly boob, just the way lawyers do. Humorless, hypersensitive assholes like you don't commonly encounter them because – IRL – that aura of humorless assholery you project warns people off.

And what “distortion of socialism” have I projected, stevie? You defend that system of plunder and disharmony? Well, go right to it.

Not that you're likely to come up with anything I hadn't sluiced down the tubes in arguments in which I'd been involved before you were born.

How old is Keynes General Theory and do you not see his fuddled excuse for policy recommendations being today implemented in the Congress at the behest of Barry Soetoro, and in the Federal Reserve System?

Just because a pernicious idea is older than you are, Jim, doesn't make it either less puissant, less prevalent, or less malignant.

And “the fall of [Soviet] communism” came because communism – like all other species of socialism – is intrinsically nonviable. Unsustainable.

Kruschev had shoe-pounded his “We will bury you!” message when I was a youngster, and it looked as if – per the illusions of strength both Kruschev's and our American warmongers were trying to fabricate – the Soviet Empire might actually be capable of waging insidious campaigns of conquest against the nations not yet under communist hegemony.

In retrospect, that was not the case. And those who were predicting the fall of the Soviet Imperium a decade and more before its collapse look pretty damned smart right now.

So what do these same men and women say about the socialist policies of Barry Soetoro?

Guess. And I'll give you a little hint: it ain't favorable to your Messiah.

I'd prefer it in the proverbial “basket of melons” (see The Wind and the Lion [1975]), but that's just my appreciation of the African way of doing such things.

Spiking it on a pike is so European.

In other words:

“Jim, you're right about me. I do see the world through an ideological and therefore unrealistic prism. You're either 100% for free markets or you're 100% socialist and therefore want to tyrannize the nation. Except that you were wrong when you implied I'm not a misanthrope, because actually I am.”

I get it. You have an opinion. I understand your opinion and am telling you it's wrong. The world is not like you think it is.

Now that we've established that I am not going to convince you of anything, this becomes about persuading the other people paying attention:

I was recently in Berlin for the first time ever. Of course, there are lots of museums about WWII, the cold war, and Berlin's rich pre-war history. I learned some things I didn't know. For example, throughout most of the Cold War, the political party that dominated West Berlin was the Social Democratic party. During the blockade of '48-'49, this was indeed the party governing West Berlin. By today's American standards, the Social Democrats would be considered a far left organization. Although most Western European Social Democrats have moderated their beliefs in recent years, earlier that wasn't the case. And yet these spineless, self-seeking despots (if you believe Tuci78) stood side-by-side with America up against a massive communist encirclement which attempted to starve the city into submission. Pro-American and anti-communist, they helped save freedom in West Berlin, and as a result perhaps much of Western Europe. And today, very liberal Berlin is still pretty pro-American.

People also forget the really quasi-socialist nature of some Western European governments just a few decades ago. Pre-Thatcher Britain, for example, had a significantly nationalized economy. And yet they, too, were staunch allies in the fight against Soviet communistic tyranny.

There was at that time a foreign policy consensus among the left and the right in this country in support of resisting the Soviet empire. There was an understanding that the Soviet Union was the end result of Marxism put into practice–a tragic enslavement of entire nations for the benefit of a few. To be sure, there were apologists in this country for the Soviets (and shame on them), but that was not the mainstream view of the Democratic or Republican politicians that governed America. It's ironic and disgusting that Democrats were some of the greatest military and political heroes of the Cold War, and yet today are being told that they are no different than the bad guys they were fighting.

Don't fall for Tuci78's bait-and-switch. Here's Merriam Webster on the Socialism:

* Main Entry: so·cial·ism
* Pronunciation: ?s?-sh?-?li-z?m
* Function: noun
* Date: 1837

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Keep your eye on the ball. No one in this country is seriously suggesting socialism. Tuci wants to conflate all kinds of evils and convince you that Democrats, and particularly Obama, embody these evils.

“I'm definitely a misanthrope…I'm a cranky old sonofabitch.” He said it, not me.

Given that you think that anything less than a complete commitment to free markets is definitely socialsm, it follows that America has been definitely socialist since FDR. Yet you also say that “all-species of socialism” are “unsustainable.” The two are mutually exclusive, because the U.S. can't have sustained an unsustainable state for such a long time.

The truth is that the U.S. is, and always has been, capitalist, and those aspects of it which you call “socialist” are not socialist, because they do not involve government ownership of the means of production and distribution. It must be, then, that they are something else. Call it a “welfare state” if you like, but don't call it socialist because that is a lie.

Tsk. What an asshole you are, Jim. Literally trying to put words into the mouth of a disputant. What I'd said is that one is either supportive of individual rights or one is not. The concept of individual rights is certainly an “idea,” and a political philosophy predicated thereupon certainly requires an “ideology” – “a set of aims and ideas, especially in politics” – but then, so does socialism.

Or the pernicious admixture of socialism tainting and debilitating the political economics of individual rights, which is commonly called the mixed economy, which has been effectively characterized thus:

“A mixed economy is a mixture of freedom and controls — with no principles, rules, or theories to define either. Since the introduction of controls necessitates and leads to further controls, it is an unstable, explosive mixture which, ultimately, has to repeal the controls or collapse into dictatorship. A mixed economy has no principles to define its policies, its goals, its laws — no principles to limit the power of its government. The only principle of a mixed economy — which, necessarily, has to remain unnamed and unacknowledged — is that no one’s interests are safe, everyone’s interests are on a public auction block, and anything goes for anyone who can get away with it. Such a system — or, more precisely, anti-system — breaks up a country into an ever-growing number of enemy camps, into economic groups fighting one another for self preservation in an indeterminate mixture of defense and offense, as the nature of such a jungle demands. While, politically, a mixed economy preserves the semblance of an organized society with a semblance of law and order, economically it is the equivalent of the chaos that had ruled China for centuries: a chaos of robber gangs looting — and draining — the productive elements of the country.

“A mixed economy is rule by pressure groups. It is an amoral, institutionalized civil war of special interests and lobbies, all fighting to seize a momentary control of the legislative machinery, to extort some special privilege at one another’s expense by an act of government — i.e., by force. In the absence of individual rights, in the absence of any moral or legal principles, a mixed economy’s only hope to preserve its precarious semblance of order, to restrain the savage, desperately rapacious groups it itself has created, and to prevent the legalized plunder from running over into plain, unlegalized looting of all by all — is compromise; compromise on everything and in every realm—material, spiritual, intellectual—so that no group would step over the line by demanding too much and topple the whole rotted structure. If the game is to continue, nothing can be permitted to remain firm, solid, absolute, untouchable; everything (and everyone) has to be fluid, flexible, indeterminate, approximate. By what standard are anyone’s actions to be guided? By the expediency of any immediate moment.“

It is not merely that I have an opinion, Jim, but that I have come to my conclusions on the basis of skeptical inquiry and reasoned analysis. You? Not so much.

However the modern lexicographer might choose to define “socialism” in a dictionary, the praxeological evaluation of socialism in all its forms – the “milk and water” socialism of the “Liberal,” the death-camp socialism of the Bolshevik, the Nuremberg rally socialism of the National Socialist, the “spread the wealth around” socialism of Barry Soetoro – it is always the same, demonstrating it always to be destructive of social harmony, degrading quality of life and undermining good civil order in any polity.

“Incidentally, why doesn’t the President release his transcripts at Columbia?”

Maybe it’s the same reason Sarah Palin refuses to release hers. Was she born in Mombasa too?

“Why does he keep the articles he authored at the Harvard Law Review so hush-hush”

The reasons seem pretty obvious to me. Do you really need someone to explain them?

Not “since FDR,” Jim. Since Woodrow Wilson. “The Crooner” merely deceitfully implemented the progressive programs of the President in whose administration Roosevelt had first come to Washington City to serve. Look into the work of historian Jim Powell for a good starting point on the analytical consideration of FDR's perfidiousness.

Roosevelt ran in the 1932 presidential election on an almost “Bourbon Democrat” platform of laissez-faire to address Hoover's decidedly Republican depression – and, yes, the Great Depression was brought on and triggered by the Republican Party, damn them to hell for it.

Roosevelt simply extended it, worsened it, effectively adding three more depressions on top of it.

To learn more about this, I recommend Murray Rothbard's America's Great Depression (1963), which can be found in its entirety online via Mises.org

These United States have never been completely “capitalist” (free market) since the days when Alexander Hamilton successfully hatched his plan to turn the federal government into precisely the kind of mercantilist engine of privilege and plunder that the patriots rebelling against Parliament had been seeking to throw off.

That mechanism of profiteering, protectionism (i.e., connected business interests screwing the consuming public), pork, and perquisites had taken more odious and explicit form under Henry Clay's “American System.”

This “American System” was the cornerstone upon which the Whigs' successors, the Republicans, have been working even to this day. And while the “American System” was not socialism per se, its mechanisms had been made to work to the advantage of socialists – masquerading as “populists” or “progressives” – in the late 19th Century.

So well had they turned the mechanisms of plunder to their purposes that we speak today of a unified, “bipartisan” Boot-On-Your-Neck Party controlling this nation, with the illusion of choice between “Republican” and “Democrat” merely a hand-wave to befuddle the voting public.

To paraphrase Nixon, “They're all socialists now.”

And thus you'd best not call it “capitalist,” Jim. Because that's a lie.

Well, if you wrote as cruddily as Barry Soetoro did (and almost certainly still does) – remember, William Ayers almost certainly ghosted “his” Dreams From My Father, in part or completely – you’d want what little had been published anywhere to be suppressed.

As for whatever he might have done in Harvard Law Review, James, the reason it can’t be found (except for a single article on abortion, and that shows off his truly abysmal ineptitude) there isn’t anything.

This is a guy who graduated magna cum laude and was elected the first (nominally) black president of Harvard Law Review and everything we can learn about his scholarship seems to demonstrate that he was a total boob who couldn’t write clearly – because, of course, he couldn’t think clearly.

One pretty much follows from the other.

You still don’t get that socialism is when the government owns ALL means of production, test-taker. Maybe you get it and don’t want to acknowledge it.

Luckily for me I don’t have to putter around with you on this one.

Jim Norman seems more than adequate to handle the task.

“What I'd said is that one is either supportive of individual rights or one is not.”

You also said: Being “a little bit socialist” is like (the proverbial) “being a little bit pregnant.” In other words, you either support free markets completely or you are a socialist.

This is how I paraphrased you: “You're either 100% for free markets or you're 100% socialist and therefore want to tyrannize the nation.” That's what you're saying, and I didn't put words into your mouth.

It doesn't matter, though, you still are seeing the world through an ideological prism. In your view, you either support individual rights completely, or you are support them less than completely and are therefore completely a socialist. And there is absolutely no room for the existence of the sincerely progressive politician or for the right of a sovereign people to have any say in how its economics are run. You won't even allow this right to be exercised if circumscribed within the narrow limits of strong property rights. In your world, ALL progressive politicians are corrupt liars, only seeking to fool the electorate and gain more power for themselves, and ALL actions by the citizens of a nation limiting economic activity beyond your strict limits are socialistic tyranny. It's illogical to believe in such all-or-nothing propositions. It would also be impossible and naive to put this ideology into practice, because you'd just end up with the government morphing into an institution to protect those with access–the rich and powerful.

And yes, it is an ideology. To continue past the quote from the Wikipedia article you refer to, an ideology is also, “a comprehensive vision…a way of looking at things.” The socialist looks at the world and sees a class struggle which he can turn into a utopia. You look at the world and see a potential free-market utopia, which would come into existence if only fools would stop supporting liberal policies and government would get out of the way. Again, to harp on the point, your “way of looking at things,” your “ideology,” sees ALL progressive politicians as corrupt liars, only seeking to fool the electorate and gain more power for themselves, and ALL actions by the citizens of a nation limiting economic activity beyond your strict limits as socialistic tyranny.

Quoting Ayn Rand or von Mises doesn't make any difference. First of all, I don't agree with them. Also, we could go on quoting people all day and make no difference. And like I said, I understand your opinion and I think it's nonsense.

“I have come to my conclusions on the basis of skeptical inquiry and reasoned analysis. You? Not so much.”
I believe that you have indeed come to your conclusions this way. However, I don't see how you could know anything about how I've come to my conclusions. It just so happens that I, too, have come to my conclusions on the basis of skeptical inquiry and reasoned analysis.

Such a self-servingly selective absolute definition of socialism – “the government owns ALL means of production” – has been used by the Fabian breed of socialists since the late 19th Century to secure their invidious and hateful objectives through gradualism, “desensitizing” people over years and decades to the noxious and debilitating effects of government interference in the economy to “pick winners” according to the socialists’ approved scheme of redistributionism.

The claim that a little bit of socialism isn’t bad for people is rather too much like the argument that a little bit of potassium cyanide in the drinking water won’t kill you.

Well, maybe not right away.

–
“Capitalism and socialism are two distinct patterns of social organization. Private control of the means of production and public control are contradictory notions and not merely contrary notions. There is no such thing as a mixed economy, a system that would stand midway between capitalism and socialism.”

– Ludwig von Mises

“Buy you, stevie?”

I know that this is a typo. Far be it from me to snark about such things.

But it is rather Freudian. You already asked me what I would do if called upon to represent someone on the birther side. And you’ve already made reference to my enslaved ancestors.

I suppose, rather than trying to understand what you could have meant, I will content myself with knowing that the blank screen I display nevertheless sends so many birthers into sputtering fits of rage, characterized by their inability to insult me beyond saying “Go suck!” or “Eat that excrement you post” or “nothing you could insult me with could affect me in the slightest.”

Still, though, the idea that you still have to keep looking to see what I’m displaying, and then being frustrated when nothing shows up, is enough to give me a chuckle.

Speaking of chuckles, isn’t it time for you to wake up naturalborn and give him his Ritalin?

Again, this is an example of your worldview/ideology that I simply disagree with. While I respect the libertarianism of Rand and von Mises for its consistency, I don't agree with it for (at least) two reasons:

-It's too elegant and simple. It is an abstract model for how the world works which is by definition (because it's a model) too simple. It doesn't allow for the messiness of reality. The system isn't so clear cut. It's more akin to “muddling-through,” as exemplified in Churchill's quote about America doing the right thing after it's tried everything else.

-I'm not some idiot who's been fooled into distraction by the smoke-and-mirrors of a uniparty trying to make me think that the two-party system is real when in fact it is not. There are stark and real differences between the parties, and I'm not going to go around thinking I'm a Republican, no thank you.

As with any stopped clock – until it’s either repaired or replaced – the eye goes naturally to the place where one expects to find the right time. Conditioned response.

I’m sure that as time passes, stevie, all and sundry will look to you only to see what kind of sputtering outrage you display on behalf of your beloved Mombasa Messiah.

And he’s still not put you on retainer, with all that money he’s squandering to quash the “birther” lawsuits that just will not quit?

That piker!

So get your blood pressure checked, stevie. I’ve seen unrequited love like yours just hammer up the diastolic, I assure you.

Not necessarily a socialist. Mercantilists, monarchists, other oligarchists of various types are also opposed to individuals freely participating in the market process freely and without the ability of authoritarians either to prey upon the wealth generated in these transactions or to force upon the participants outcomes other than those for the purposes of which these participants came to meet and dicker with each other in the marketplace.

But in today's political usages, even the mercantilists – the “Rotarian Socialist” types – use the language of socialism to cloak their leveraging of government authority to crush competitors, corral consumers, and co-opt wealth they could not otherwise gain in a marketplace free of government intrusion.

That's what the “free market” – capitalism – means, Jim. Free from government intrusion to “pick winners” and/or plunder the profits.

And you're still an asshole trying to put words into your disputants' mouths. Tsk.

As for the “ideological prism,” Jim, are you or are you not aware of the “looking glass” through which you yourself are seeing the world as it is?

Quoting you:

“And there is absolutely no room for the existence of the sincerely progressive politician or for the right of a sovereign people to have any say in how its economics are run.“

Precisely. NO RIGHT, and therefore “no room.”

Again, quoting you:

“ALL progressive politicians are corrupt liars, only seeking to fool the electorate and gain more power for themselves, and ALL actions by the citizens of a nation limiting economic activity beyond your strict limits are socialistic tyranny.“

Thank you.

That “The socialist looks at the world and sees a class struggle which he can turn into a utopia” must meet with the response that the socialist's peculiar “utopia” invariably turns out to be millions upon millions of his neighbors' hell on earth.

Ever heard the saying “Utopia is not an option,” Jim?

Y'see, I don't have to quote Mrs. O'Connor or Dr. von Mises, or Murray Rothbard or F.A. von Hayek or Henry Hazlitt or Frédéric Bastiat to make my points, though I enjoy doing so.

I can quote you now.

What, Jim, d'you mean to say that having a worldview/ideology that values the rights of the individual over the tyranny of the majority is objectionable to you?

And Mrs. O'Connor was explicitly, adamantly not a libertarian. She said so and wrote so repeatedly. Sheesh.

As for the “too simple” qualities of libertarianism to which you object, can it be that you are unfamiliar with the sciences' approach to “the messiness of reality,” in which appreciation of the fundamental workings presses always toward the lucid articulation of those most simple and robust principles by which the operations of the universe can be grasped and understood?

That which is likely to be most correct, most truly reflective of “the messiness of reality” will almost always turn out to be simple to the point that their articulation seems self-evident.

Kinda like in the Declaration of Independence, come to think on it.

As for your being an “idiot who's been fooled into distraction,” Jim…

Well, you said that you're a Republican.

Yuch.

OK, I admit, I'm confused. I've never had someone argue with me by proving my points. You're completely agreeing with me that your thinking is all-or-nothing and therefore illogical. (See list of logical fallacies at http://www.philosophicalsociety.com/Logical%20F… esp. “fallacy of false alternatives”)

You're descending into ad hominems and continuing to claim I've put words in your mouth when I demonstrated that I didn't. And you've completely agreed with me that your definition of socialism is just as broad as I've said it is, so broad as to be meaningless fear-mongering.

Someone help me out, here. I'm going to spend some time with my family.

Jim, the points you're trying to prove are that in the real world, adult human beings are the only creatures who survive and thrive through the voluntary exercise of their reasoning powers.

Thinking, especially reasonably, requires purposeful intention, and takes place in the lonely mind of the individual human being. Nowhere else. Through language and other tools of abstract conceptualization, we can share ideas and coordinate our activities, but everything starts in the mind of the reasoning, self-responsible, autonomous individual.

That being understood, the “basic unit of society” is not the family – as socialist-inspired government indoctrination systems textbook have sold for generations – but the individual.

Therefore the rights of the individual – not the rights of the family, the rights of society, the rights of the community, the rights of the nation, none of which can properly be said to have “rights” at all, except as each individual participating therein has rights of his own – the rights of the individual is the moral foundation upon which all social order is predicated, and which the agents of government (if government can be said to have any legitimate purpose whatsoever) must work exclusively and diligently to defend.

Your mistaken use of the false dilemma fallacy to describe my “either it is or it's not” characteriztion of “either it's free or it's not free” characterization of political economics is an example of how the poor appreciation of the tools of logic can get you thoroughly fucked up.

Well, hell. You're a Republican.

Tuci78: “'I'm just having fun.”

I don't believe that for 1 second. You are a pretty angry person and it's very clearly reflected in your posts.

All those paragraphs and not one mention of the single precedent that's most pertinent to the issue. United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898).

There's no way in hell you're a “lawyer”. Nice try though.

Jeez, I'm not allowed to have fun while being angry?

–
“To be happy one must be (a) well fed, unhounded by sordid cares, at ease in Zion, (b) full of a comfortable feeling of superiority to the masses of one's fellow men, and (c) delicately and unceasingly amused according to one's taste. It is my contention that, if this definition be accepted, there is no country in the world wherein a man constituted as I am — a man of my peculiar weakness, vanities, appetites, and aversions — can be so happy as he can be in the United States.“

– H.L. Mencken

Totally agree. He's nationalizing and socializing the USA at an alarming pace. It's unprecedented how Congress is passing 1,200 page laws which come out of Committee at 2AM and sail onto a floor vote that very afternoon — without even so much as being READ, much less understood.

Wholesale takeover of the auto industry. Firing of CEO's. Appointment of “czars” … the list goes on and on into utter lunacy.

People need to FIGHT THE LUNACY on its own terms as utterly bad policy. Pinning hopes on ousting him due to grounds of Constitutional ineligibility is, however, a dog that just won't hunt.

“You all like to say that if we don't like Obama, it is just because he is Black. You never talk about the percentage of Black voters that voted for him being 95%. I'm pretty sure they voted for him in those numbers entirely BECAUSE he is Black and not so much for any other reason. Sounds pretty “racist” to me.”

When did Republicans become so sensitive to racism? I've seen quite a transformation over the past few months.

Blacks normally vote for the Democratic candidate by a margin of about 90 to 92 percent. A 95 percent vote this election means a colossal increase of a whopping 3 points. Blacks are either racist or you're unable to understand simple mathematics.

He took American citizenship from the unwed mother. There is no way on God's green earth that his parents had anything but a null/void marriage due to bigamy. Amanda Ripley of Time magazine located the divorce papers about a year before Plains Radio ever did, but when she tried to obtain the marriage license for Dunham-Obama in the town referenced by their divorce paperwork, no dice. It doesn't appear to exist.

Kezia would have been Obama, Sr.'s recognized wife in Kenya under their “customary” marriage laws. The U.S. recognizes foreign marriages which are themselves “recognized” by the foreign country in which they take place. Even if there was a Hawaiian wedding between Obama Sr and Dunham, which is dubious at best, it was void by reason of bigamy.

A certificate (or actually, an abstracted certification) claiming to show a birth in Kenya just surfaced over the weekend. It shows a February 1964 issuance date. Whether it will be authenticated is open to doubt although it could create the kind of “cloud” that propels a court to force production of the original BC in some Hawaiian DOH vault. If he was born in Kenya he loses the “natural born” part of his American citizenship. But unless there was a LEGAL MARRIAGE and a LEGITIMATE FATHER, Obama didn't meet the prerequisites for taking on Kenyan citizenship. “Dual” or otherwise. Read the provisions in the British Nationality Act of 1948 about children not legitimated by a valid marriage.

Under Kenyan law as a colony governed by the U.K. there were added legal wrinkles of “customary” and “statutory” marriages. Someone who had a “customary” (tribal and no paperwork) marriage could not enter into a “statutory” marriage unless he divorced the tribal wife first. Mixing the two modes of marriage made one a bigamist.

Learn to separate “dicta” from an actual “ruling” and you'll figure out why Wong Kim Ark doesn't have any precedential value on the definition of Natural Born Citizen. It was also flat-out bad law because it overlooked the proper weighing of the “subject to the jurisidiction of” clause of the 14th Amendment, even as to its ruling which was a ruling purely on citizenship. Not the natural born variety of citizenship but just plain-vanilla citizenship.

Wong Kim's parents were Chinese nationals. Despite their being in the U.S. legally as resident aliens, their citizenship gave China some 'jurisdiction' over them and their offspring.

Justice Gray who wrote that opinion was an appointee of Chester Arthur — the only President ever to have burned most of his personal papers, just before he died. His well-kept secret was that his father had not become a naturalized citizen by the time Chester was born, making Chester Arthur assume the same citizenship as the father (Irish) under the “patrem” rules applicable at the time. Chester Arthur wouldn't have even been a dual citizen because dual wasn't given recognition in America back then, or anytime before the Afroyim decision in 1967. Indeed, the American citizenship of Arthur's mother would have been extinguished at the time of the marriage, and then revived when her husband finally got naturalized in 1843. Up until 1922, the laws found a whole host of American-born women who had married foreign nationals wake up to the fact that — upon being widowed — they had to “naturalize” to reclaim their American citizenship.

Don't mistake for “LUNACY” what is more properly a carefully studied and deliberate effort to shove these United States over a cliff to shatter the nation and its society upon the rocks below. This is not madness, but cold malevolence.

Mr. Weigel's more responsible colleagues at Reason magazine appreciate this far better than the knee-jerk Obamaphile does. For example, Veronique de Rigy's recent “Destroying Jobs in Order to Save Them” speaks lucidly to how Barry Soetoro's otherwise puzzling effort to levy taxes upon a miniscule portion of America's economy – “$700 billion or more of American corporate earnings in overseas accounts” – when gaining those revenues will not only fail to make a dent upon his gargantuan deficits but will also wipe out thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of American jobs overnight.

Further quoting Ms. de Rugy:

“The U.S. corporate tax rate is simply too high. When you add state corporate taxes to the 35 percent federal rate, you arrive at a whopping 40 percent average corporate tax burden, the second highest among the 30 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).“

And the ill-informed wonder why this nation experiences such a one-sided balance of payments. Our business sector goes into every contest in international and domestic markets dragging a government-welded anchor around their ankles.

Mr. Weigel is too busy snarking about “birthers” to pay attention to this, of course.

I never said anything in my comment about language in Wong Kim Ark was dicta or not. I simply said it's the most important precedent that exists, and you failed to mention it. You are clearly not a lawyer. It's also equally clear that you are lying when you claim to be some disinterested party who happens to have a law degree and who happened to spend a few seconds as a neutral legal observer on the issue, reporting your independent conclusions to us. That is obviously a fabrication, as it's obvious you have spent hours upon hours reading up on the make-up of the Wong Kim Ark court, on the Chester A. Arthur administration, on the birther allegations involving President Arthur, and other typical birther-related arguments. In other words, you are very obviously a BIRTHER. Why you would lie about that on this forum is actually pretty obvious: you want to falsely pass yourself off as a disinterested neutral lawyer. You are not. You aren't any one of the three, in fact: disinterested, neutral, or a lawyer. I'll leave to other readers to draw their own conclusions as to what that says about your credibility as a person.

I don't see the relevance of Justice Gray being an appointee of Chester Arthur. If you know anything about how our Supreme Court works, that factoid is so inconsequential and irrelevant as to be laughable. Again, if you studied the law, I wouldn't have to explain that to you. Unless of course…. were you a classmate of Orly Taitz?

This is a lot of legalese mumbo-jumbo that birthers will get very excited about. But it amounts to nothing.

He was born in the United States. That's all the Constitution requires. We don't attack people's qualifications for office based on their ancestral or ethnic backgrounds in this country. Maybe they do wherever you're from, but not in the USA.

The dual citizenship argument is a nonstarter. Not only is it irrelevant to the presidential qualifications clause, but all you can do at best is prove that Obama may have QUALIFIED for citizenship of another country. Qualifying for citizenship of another country is not akin to actually having citizenship status of another country. He had none and there is no documentation to suggest otherwise. This issue is a joke, just like the entire birther movement.

I would have to side with the test-taker here. He clearly enjoys this stuff.

So should you, though, neil. It's not often that you can get people to say such indefensible, comically ignorant things. Birthers do it all the time.

Tuci is a birther but a unique kind of birther. Sort of like Dennis the Menace's neighbor, Mr. Wilson, but with a larger vocabulary and a malevolent cheekiness that helps pass the time when the stupider birthers are off poking berries up their noses.

If he was a classmate of Orly's, how would he know? It was online correspondence law school, after all.

As the test-taker is fond of telling us, “on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.”

Royalties for use of your phrase will be paid when my Obama blogger check comes in, Tuci.

Wow again. Loads of gibberish in there. No evidence of legal training.

I'm curious, curiouslawyer. In what state are you licensed to practice?

Psst… “Denial” is not a state.

Thanks, stevie. I think.

Meanwhile, even if you can find the diphenhydramine in your medicine cabinet, get Selma to someplace where supportive care can be rendered.

And you can get your blood pressure checked, you racist peanut-pushing irresponsible bastard.

Why'd you throw “irresponsible” in there? I didn't quibble with racist or peanut-pushing.

I thought it rather admirable of me to have consulted a doctor for an antidote. Irresponsible would have been pretending not to have any birth control on hand when she showed up with the peanut-butter sandwich.

Not my phrase, stevie. Look up Peter Steiner of The New Yorker.

One of the things about the Internet that Dubbya – and now your Mombasa Messiah – was trying to violate is the degree of privacy which the 'Net affords individuals daring to speak truth to power.

Or just to merrily tweak the noses of officious assholes like Barry Soetoro.

Anonymity has had its uses since the days of the Stuart monarchy at lest. As I'd mentioned, physician John Locke published his most significant works on political philosophy – especially Two Treatises of Government in 1698 – anonymously in order to evade the wrath of the royalists.

Test-taker, don't you think he's HAPPY?

Under your scenario, the man has been pulling off one scam after another, with undreamed-of success. He's sitting there taking dumps in the Oval Office or whatever it is you're always griping about. He's got his boot on your neck. He gets to spend other people's money to buy things for other other people.

Why wouldn't he be wearing a permanent grin? What about all that high living sounds misery-inducing?

Is Steiner the originator? I had heard and read that phrase before coming here. Never knew who made it up.

See, I learned something today. Better quit for the night before I learn anything else.

Homer Simpson: “Every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff outta my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?”

Lactose-intolerance, so no milk. Stick with cognac. See you around the threads, doc.

I wrote “irresponsible” and I meant it, damn you. That you should've demanded of that lovely, compliant, courteous young woman the fulfillment of your unnatural lust for peanut-based products without first inquiring as to her sensitivities tells the whole world everything needed to condemn you as a thoroughgoing dietary bigot and arrantly insensitive legumist, dead to the finer sensibilities and utterly beyond the pale.

Now get her to the care she needs, stevie.

And get your goddam blood pressure checked while you're at it. You may be utterly reprehensible and morally unfit for human company, but I took an oath, and while the care of lawyers should be properly allocated to icthyologists familiar with the Selachimorpha, you have yet some human characteristics that not even the most discriminating student of zoology can deny.

I think less of Barry Soetoro as a character along the lines of Mordecai Jones in The Flim-Flam Man than as one of the desperate fraudulences who make up the characters in Glengarry Glen Ross.

Can't be much fun for Barry as the pressure ratchets up and the shadows he's cast to conceal the dark corners of his sordid, hateful little life shrink and shrink and shrink….

Didn't you follow the link, stevie? Yeah, Steiner. In 1993. Famous cartoon among the hacker crowd.

And who needs cognac? Liguore Strega, per piacere!

See reply above in thread.

I’m grateful to Tuci78 for continuing to prove my point (see below in this thread) that he’s wearing ideological blinders, and for distilling his argument to its essence. When I point out that he suffers from either-or thinking, he gladly affirms this, thereby proving his faulty logic. Since I am not going to convince Tuci of anything, I’m going to write for anyone who may be undecided on this discussion.

To recap, Tuci overuses the word “socialism.” This is a common problem in American discourse. It’s rhetorical trickery to call something socialism when it isn’t—a bait-and-switch that’s supposed to invoke fear. When someone calls something “socialist,” you’re supposed to think of the totalitarianism of the Soviet Union or other communist states of the last century, and you’re supposed to think of tyranny. But an honest debater will use clearly defined terms and not equivocate. Equivocating is “the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning or sense.” In this case, “socialism” is used in the broadest sense possible, but its use is meant to evoke fears of the tyranny that arose as a result of Marxist revolutionaries taking control of the means of production and distribution in the last century. The traditional meaning of the word is indeed limited to government or collective ownership of the means of production and distribution, as per any number of dictionaries.

Tuci, however, wants to expand the use of the word to mean anything less than a completely free market. In his words, any limitation of economic activity, outside of regulations designed to deter the “violation of market participants' rights through force or fraud” amounts to directing “the government's “goons with guns” to compel actions” which a someone else deems favorable, and this person is by definition a socialist. Tuci here is saying that any limitation of economic activity which goes outside the limits specified is socialism, and that it is tyrannical.

When I pressed Tuci on the extreme, either/or, black-or-white illogic to this view, he agreed with me:

Me, characterizing Tuci: “And there is absolutely no room for the existence of the sincerely progressive politician or for the right of a sovereign people to have any say in how its economics are run.”

Tuci: “Precisely. NO RIGHT, and therefore ‘no room.’”

Me, characterizing Tuci: “ALL progressive politicians are corrupt liars, only seeking to fool the electorate and gain more power for themselves, and ALL actions by the citizens of a nation limiting economic activity beyond your strict limits are socialistic tyranny.”

Tuci: “Thank you.”

So Tuci agrees that he sees the issue of free markets vs. socialist tyranny as being one or the other.

This is fallacious thinking, per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dillema): “The informal fallacy of false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy) involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options. Closely related are failing to consider a range of options and the tendency to think in extremes, called black-and-white thinking. Strictly speaking, the prefix “di” in “dilemma” means “two”. When a list of more than two choices is offered, but there are other choices not mentioned, then the fallacy is called the fallacy of false choice, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses.”

So, Tuci's thinking is wrong.

This all began when I accused Tuci of being trapped in an ideological understanding of the world. More precisely, his model of how the world works is flawed, because his reasoning is flawed, as outlined above. Since this worldview allows for no gray areas or possibilities outside what it predicts, it can’t be correct. If Tuci said, “This is my model of how the world works, and it’s basically true. There are, of course, exceptions,” then that would be one thing. But Tuci has so much faith in his model as to make it a religion or a scientific theory, practically speaking. Put another way, if Tuci’s model were a scientific theory (and Tuci apparently thinks it’s really that strong), it would have to predict correctly all events it purports to predict. If it didn’t, it would be wrong and have to be modified or discarded.

Depending on your politics and life experience, you may or may not agree with Tuci’s model. In my opinion, it’s pretty easy to find exceptions to his model—sincere progressive politicians, government employees who work hard and benefit the public, reasonable regulations that help everyone while not “tyrannizing” anyone, and progressive taxation are just a few examples.

Tuci’s model also has significant parallels with socialism itself, or more precisely, Marxism. Consider that his model and Marxism have the following in common:
-both are intellectual constructs, relying on Enlightenment-era faith in the capacity of man’s reason to understand the world
-both are utopian—Marx believing in a socialist paradise, Tuci apparently believing that only if government got out of the way, things would be a laissez-faire paradise
-both programs, if carried to their logical conclusion, don’t work out as intended
-both are based on a flawed understanding of human nature. Tuci’s understanding of human nature is strictly individualistic, and this is the basis of his entire understanding:

“the ‘basic unit of society’ is not the family – as socialist-inspired government indoctrination systems textbook have sold for generations – but the individual.

No individual rights, no society. No protection of individual rights, no legitimacy for any government.

I certainly and strongly agree with the last sentence, as do almost all Americans, regardless of what Tuci thinks. I also believe that all governments which don’t rely on this insight have been failures. In my younger years, I signed up to fight and perhaps die for these values. However, it’s one thing to say that the basic unit of society is the individual, and another thing to then reduce the importance of groups or communities to next to nothing.

The reason that this is a flawed understanding of human nature is that humans are not isolated individuals. They exist in context, whether that context is family or community or nation, or all of the above. This is the experience of ages of human experience, of human religion, and even today of neuroscience, and only came to be questioned during the Enlightenment.

Consider the logical outcome if Tuci’s free market zealotry were put into practice. No longer is it possible to regulate economic activity in any way. Government shrinks to the strictly limited roles Tuci thinks it should be limited to. Do things stay that way? Or do parties with access—the rich and the powerful—start influencing the government to expand those powers in ways that benefit them? And then, now that government power is limited, except for being able to favor powerful, monied interests, who gets screwed?

Consider also the practical effect that Tuci’s politics, deriving from political economists like Ayn Rand and Ludwig von Mises, have on today’s American politics. I don’t know how Tuci votes, but in general, people of his political persuasion tend to vote Republican. They want “freedom” and “liberty,” but they tend to think of these narrowly, in mostly economic terms, so they go to the party which tends to favor less restrictions on business activity. However, in so doing, they are also supporting the party which likes to limit personal freedoms—the party which wants to be in your bedroom, your e-mail and phone conversations, above all your conscience, which wants to spend your money on illegitimate wars and torture people in your name, the party of social conformity which looks askance at people who don’t look like they do. I’m speaking broadly, but in general this is a good characterization of the Republican party.

But that’s what this libertarian nonsense brings us. I really do appreciate, and listen to, the libertarians when they remind me of the dangers of collectivist economics. But when they scream “socialist tyranny” all the time about things that aren’t socialism, and scare people into running the Republican party of limited personal freedoms, it’s a big net loss. I mean, who really thinks the rights of big corporations are more important than those of individual human beings? Isn’t that backwards? The Republican party’s motto should be: “Regulate people, not the economy.”

This will be my last post in this thread (you’re welcome!) because I have a family who needs me to start spending time with them again. Expect Tuci78’s response to do one or more of the following:
-Try to hurt my feelings by using naughty words
-Show how smart and well-read he is
-Walk a fine line between cheeky “tweaking of my nose” and suppressed anger

Enjoy!

Ok, I lied. One more post because I forgot something.

There are advantages to Tuci's libertarian politics:

1) You get to feel superior to everyone else because you're smarter than them, more principled, and “in the know.”
2) You get to be unhappy all the time because what you want will never come to pass.

Pieces of shit, what does your mother have to do with this exactly? Bottom feeding, sperm guzzling, cousin fucking, knuckle draggers would co-sign anything birther – so being called a “pice of shit” by the likes of you is like getting dating advice from a rapist. As for looking forward to some sort of “civil war”, that’s not really honest. The only violence in your life is the beating action you perform to your penis when you masturbate to Mein Kampf. You are a pussy, panty waste, nancy boy -  and you know deep inside that Kool-Aid pumping heart of yours that you actually wet yourself when faced with real confrontation. As for Michelle, she didn’t have to say anything racist – co-signing birthers in any fashion is giving a nod to racism. I don’t particularly know about “wanting” racism, but you sure did give me a big dose of stupid this morning. Cheer douchebag. :)

Pieces of shit, what does your mother have to do with this exactly? Bottom feeding, sperm guzzling, cousin fucking, knuckle draggers would co-sign anything birther – so being called a “pice of shit” by the likes of you is like getting dating advice from a rapist. As for looking forward to some sort of “civil war”, that’s not really honest. The only violence in your life is the beating action you perform to your penis when you masturbate to Mein Kampf. You are a pussy, panty waste, nancy boy -  and you know deep inside that Kool-Aid pumping heart of yours that you actually wet yourself when faced with real confrontation. As for Michelle, she didn’t have to say anything racist – co-signing birthers in any fashion is giving a nod to racism. I don’t particularly know about “wanting” racism, but you sure did give me a big dose of stupid this morning. Cheer douchebag. :)

Pieces of shit, what does your mother have to do with this exactly? Bottom feeding, sperm guzzling, cousin fucking, knuckle draggers would co-sign anything birther – so being called a “pice of shit” by the likes of you is like getting dating advice from a rapist. As for looking forward to some sort of “civil war”, that’s not really honest. The only violence in your life is the beating action you perform to your penis when you masturbate to Mein Kampf. You are a pussy, panty waste, nancy boy -  and you know deep inside that Kool-Aid pumping heart of yours that you actually wet yourself when faced with real confrontation. As for Michelle, she didn’t have to say anything racist – co-signing birthers in any fashion is giving a nod to racism. I don’t particularly know about “wanting” racism, but you sure did give me a big dose of stupid this morning. Cheer douchebag. :)

That to which little Jimmy seems to object is that I have an “ideology” of which I am consciously aware, that I have examined the – let's call it “metaphysical” and “epistemological” and “political” – roots upon which that ideology is predicated and from which it is elaborated, that I have tested the validity of that ideology against the best possible appreciation of history I can manage, and that it stands up not only on the basis of internal consistency but also in comparison against other political ideologies (emphatically including whatever muddle Jimmy calls his own) robustly and effectively.

Pretty much the same way one chooses among various diagnostic and therapeutic modalities in establishing “best practices” in standards of medical care.

Okay. So on to this asshole's accusations of a “bait-and-switch” on my part with regard to socialism, which is (as Jimmy obviously appreciates) a kind of “dirty word” in current American political and economic discourse. Just like “Liberal” and “progressive” and “fascist” and “Tranzi,” all of which have drifted into pejorative meaning because they've been used as weasel-words to “bait-and-switch” Americans into accepting socialism, and socialism is ab ovo and without doubt an utterly hateful and literally inhuman (like I said, fine for hive-dwelling insects, not so good for us Killer Apes) system of political economics.

When one finds metastatic (i.e., cancerous) changes on microscopic examination of tissue biopsy materials, one does not say “this isn't malignant in character” if all that one finds are changes which are merely “premalignant” or simply strongly suspicious of cancer developing in that sampled tissue. Either the tissue on the slide is normal in character or it is “off.” Screwed up. Abnormal. Suspicious – or even M.D. Anderson dead-goddam-certain “this has got to come out or the patient kacks!” cancer.

As with cancer, so with socialism. Total socialism – the socialists' wet dream of total government ownership of all means of production, distribution, and (what the hell) consumption – is the hospice case version of civil government. The patient helpless, prostrate, glassy-eyed, begging for pain medication, dying in agony.

The mixed economy – what the Fabian Society socialists of the late 19th Century proposed, and the tool of people like John Maynard Keynes – is more like that same patient a year or two before, with a big, ulcerating melanoma square between his shoulder blades, bothered by it only because it was sticking to his undershirt sometimes, and making him reluctant to go swimming with the kids anymore because he didn't like the funny looks people kept giving him.

Dying even then, though he didn't want to know anything about it.

Socialism. Cancer. The one an affliction of the body politic, the other an affliction of the body physical.

As for “the basis of [my] entire understanding” of human nature as “strictly individualistic,” without reference to “Robinson Crusoe economics” (in which we posit a man raised in the comforts of society stranded upon a desert island, who does not immediately roll over on his back, put his arms and legs to the sky, cockroach fashion, and die) let us look instead at how people think.

Right now, dear reader, most of you (I'm not talking about the schizophrenics like little stevie; let's assume a basic level of mental functionality) are “listening” to the phonemes expressed by these word symbols in the privacy of your own minds. Nobody is thinking for you. You're doing it all yourself, independent of other folks' supervision or guidance or control. You've got your own internal mental “software” – no matter how you'd obtained it, even if it had been forced upon you by sexually frustrated nuns with long yardsticks and a heavy hand in your earliest and most vulnerable days of schooling. You control the sound in your temporal lobes and the pictures in your occipital cortex. You can choose to pull up a game of Free Cell and ignore what's on your browser right now. You can tell Jimmy here to go shove his line of socialist apologetics up his dogwhistle asshole.

Got all that? You are not part of some sort of “hive mind” out of the SF stories. You're an individual human being, and the essence of your life is what goes on between your own parietal knobs, in that grey goo you use for thinking. And you survive and thrive (if you do at all) not on the basis of instincts but your ability to consciously use whatever reasoning capacity you've developed for yourself.

“Reason, the only oracle of Man,” to quote one of the Founders.

Reasoning being something that humans really only do as individuals (remember that bullshit artist LBJ quoting the Bible's “Let us reason together” line back in the '60s? well, he was selling you a line of crap with that, too), and we really only function as individuals even when we're cooperating with each other at peak efficiency, what Jimmy's trying to evade is the fact that it's only as individuals that we can have codes of moral conduct and therefore systems of societal organization and government services that work for us.

This getting wearisome? Don't blame you. It's a lot to absorb.

Let me leave off for the moment, then.

But I will tell you how I vote.

I vote to do the least violence to my neighbors possible. Always.

Jimmy doesn't do that, obviously.

So who do you want for a neighbor? Jimmy, who will do his altruistic best to ram “utopia” down your throat even if his “utopia” is your “hell on earth”?

Or me, the guy who wants to see you living in peace and freedom?

Pieces of shit, what does your mother have to do with this exactly? Bottom feeding, sperm guzzling, cousin fucking, knuckle draggers would co-sign anything birther – so being called a “pice of shit” by the likes of you is like getting dating advice from a rapist. As for looking forward to some sort of “civil war”, that’s not really honest. The only violence in your life is the beating action you perform to your penis when you masturbate to Mein Kampf. You are a pussy, panty waste, nancy boy -  and you know deep inside that Kool-Aid pumping heart of yours that you actually wet yourself when faced with real confrontation. As for Michelle, she didn’t have to say anything racist – co-signing birthers in any fashion is giving a nod to racism. I don’t particularly know about “wanting” racism, but you sure did give me a big dose of stupid this morning. Cheer douchebag. :)

Pieces of shit, what does your mother have to do with this exactly? Bottom feeding, sperm guzzling, cousin fucking, knuckle draggers would co-sign anything birther – so being called a “pice of shit” by the likes of you is like getting dating advice from a rapist. As for looking forward to some sort of “civil war”, that’s not really honest. The only violence in your life is the beating action you perform to your penis when you masturbate to Mein Kampf. You are a pussy, panty waste, nancy boy -  and you know deep inside that Kool-Aid pumping heart of yours that you actually wet yourself when faced with real confrontation. As for Michelle, she didn’t have to say anything racist – co-signing birthers in any fashion is giving a nod to racism. I don’t particularly know about “wanting” racism, but you sure did give me a big dose of stupid this morning. Cheer douchebag. :)

Jesus, is that a real question? If you moved into California our property values would tumble a further 20%.

Jim would be an ideal neighbor. A bit too patient with you for my liking, but still a good man.

This is almost exactly the same thing as your other post, but in 2,000 fewer words.

Both were well worth the time spent reading them.

You nailed him with the second advantage, in my opinion. The first doesn't perfectly apply, because I don't think Tuci himself believes he is “more principled.”

In the course of defending the birther positions, he has repeatedly cited us to westernjournalism.com while in the same post denouncing factcheck.org as “j-school jerkwads” from Annenberg.

Presumably, westernjournalism.com does not employ journalists, most of whom go to journalism, or j, school.

Having visited the site, it's safe to say westernjournalism doesn't employ anyone.

Well, stevie, your “property values” are artificially and unsupportably inflated to begin with, aren't they? The market value for any property – real or otherwise – and any service is what purchasers in that market are willing to part with in exchange.

Lower “property values” on your real estate in California would be of immense benefit to people looking for places to live and conduct business rather than as “tulip bulb mania” so-called “investment” items.

I'm absolutely sure you're an “ex-English major,” stevie. Utterly bereft of any grounding in economics, right?

Your “property values” represent a malinvestment, little lawyer. Malinvestments must be liquidated.

So you and your ilk are “under water” on your residential housing mortgages?

So let Say's Law (look it up, stevie) operate. You really can't stop it anyway.

Aw, stevie, you little shitwad. How cute. Still jerking off over the use of the WesternJournalism.com Web site simply because that's one of the places on the Web that reproduced (in toto and without comment) an investigator's report to which I'd referred.

And you're the shit-headed excuse for a lawyer who relies on everything he finds on FactCheck as absolutely reliable information, ain'tcha?

Ah, it’s the quality of the rhetoric, the refinement, the elegant and nuanced use of language, that brings me back again and again (and again and again) to read and enjoy and – I’ll say it, ’cause I mean it – savor the writings posted here.

–
Q: If you find so much that is unworthy of reverence in the United States, then why do you live here?
A: Why do men go to zoos?

– H.L. Mencken

Ah, it’s the quality of the rhetoric, the refinement, the elegant and nuanced use of language, that brings me back again and again (and again and again) to read and enjoy and – I’ll say it, ’cause I mean it – savor the writings posted here.

–
Q: If you find so much that is unworthy of reverence in the United States, then why do you live here?
A: Why do men go to zoos?

– H.L. Mencken

So, you're admitting that you're an unprincipled miserable wretch? Noted.

Nah. Wonderfully principled am I, little liar-for-a-living.

Gawsh, stevie, you're really coming completely – and I mean completely – unhinged, ain'tcha? Get some kind of nasty message in your morning email from Messiah Central?

Well, it's getting out in the drive-by media now.

From David Hahn, “Publisher StatePaper.com ” August 5, 2009.

Publisher: Obama Should Produce Original Birth Certificate

At StatePaper.com, we know by making this statement we will be instantly tagged as “racist,” “birther,” or other pejorative terms by those who defend the President of the United States. We often defend the President and the job he is doing and are regularly lambasted for being “too liberal” or an “Obama lover” by some of our most prolific critics.

The fact in question here is the constitutional qualification of the President of the United States to hold office. With a simple nod, the President could offer the American people the best evidence, the source document(s), as he learned about at Harvard, and dispel those who question his birth as a natural born citizen. His failure to provide this best evidence, when it could be so easily done, raises only more questions, which fuels an ugly public debate.

Looks as if McCarthy is not only not alone in the public demand for Barry's bona fides but gaining company among his colleagues.

[...] is the original: Andrew McCarthy Embarrasses National Review | The Washington … Tags: 700-billion, America, billion-or-more, dubious-at-best, hawaiian, Kenya, order, [...]

You can post this nonsense on as many threads as you like.

It won't make the Best Evidence Rule applicable to evidence that is legally unavailable, as original birth certificates in Hawai'i are.

Sigh. What do you expect when you wave around a college newspaper blogger's notion of a legal concept?

Birthers. They disregard official sources when the sources don't agree with their paranoia. But they unblinkingly accept ANY crackpot whose writing accords with their lunacy.

Would someone tell me what a true conservative is? I mean, what do they stand for? What do they advocate? What do they contribute to the overall good of society in a holistic sense? Do they all live in the South and have impaired reasoning when it comes to the complex social issues of our day? Or do they actually have a reasonable platform from which they assuage the concerns of all who will listen to them? Who are the “American People” as they define them? It seems that they are more concerned with their own narrow interests than the collective interests of this society that also includes them. Isn't that what the Articles of the Constitution clearly delineate? I thought tyranny was the reason why the United States was born in the first place. It seems that some of us in high places has redefined the definition of society to leave everyone not in line with the “conservative” view out.

I tend to view the “true conservative” as a neophobe, someone whose chief motivation is fear of the new.

Not a helluva lot else. They fear – and therefore hate – whatever enters their fields of perception as novel, unsought, alien, unanticipated, potentially hostile, potentially threatening.

To the American conservative, “the American People” are English-speaking, work for a living (even if they have independent means – if they're “rich” or just “well-off” – they still work at something useful; no screwing around), heterosexual (or “closeted” enough to keep it completely out of other conservatives' fields of perception), neatly (but not obsessively) groomed, Christian though not necessarily “churched” (Jews are now tolerated – barely – especially since the Israelis proved that one can be Jewish and still crack track, pound ground, and kick Sand Nazi ass), European in familial derivation (some minimal credit for Amerindian descent, but not much), with good credit ratings (they pay their bills on time), not particularly “intellectual,” fiercely patriotic, aware of their own prejudices and not really afraid of expressing them (“PC” be damned), trusting (and therefore easily and reliably form “random associations in good times and bad to work in concert with their fellow “American People”), resilient, self-actuated, and hate being bossed around.

Thus “the American People” (according to conservatives as well as to anyone who is not a “Liberal”/ socialist/ “transnational progressive”/ tofu-eater/ “grasshopper” (as opposed to “ant”)/ bureaucrat/ PETA member/ tax consumer) are the productive population in American society.

This includes children who look to grow up and become productive, decent, trustworthy adults and old folks who had spent their productive years as decent, trustworthy persons and continue decent and trustworthy into the years of their infirmity.

To the conservative, nobody else really counts. Except as enemies.

If you credit Myers-Briggs temperament typing, they make up about 37.5% of any given population. Their politics mirror their prejudices and predispositions.

What are they good for?

Well, without 'em, society breaks down. America is basically a conservative country, just like most other nation-states. The difference between America and most other nations in the world (with notable exceptions like Canada and the cluster of countries in the British Isles, the Swiss Confederacy and Iceland) is that “random associations” bit. The culture of trust is exceptional.

It's not “democracy” (which is only mob rule writ into statute law) or even the representative republic scheme of civil government, but the unstructured, unforced, almost spontaneous – but very purposeful – tendency of Americans to associate with each other to purposeful effect.

Ever watch real Americans – not “Liberals” or other tofu-eaters, but the rest of us – respond to an accident or even a real disaster? Contrast the people responding to Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans (a city of “grasshoppers” with a “grasshopper” government at both city and state levels) and along the Mississippi Gulf coast (which actually got hit harder by that storm, with storm surges cresting higher than those of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami in some places).

The folks on the Mississippi coast responded like Americans. “Ants.” The ones in New Orleans?

New Orleans: “Why ain't the gub'bmint he'pin' us?”

Whole counties in Mississippi: “We got dead bodies to get down off the roof of the Wal-Mart. Get out of the way.”

Grasshoppers and ants.

Now, I'm not a conservative. I'm what you might call a neophile, a futurist, the merry embracer of new thoughts and technologies and techniques. I'm not particularly interested in doing a Buckley, yelling “Stop!” just because what's coming tomorrow isn't going to be precisely what we had yesterday.

But because I also understand human nature – the “killer ape” part as well as the trusting, “random association” forming, “American People” population who are about the best our species has ever produced, bar none – I hate the living hell out of government-sucking statists, and that includes thieving, enslaving, mass-murdering socialists.

Anent “the Articles of the Constitution,” son, if you look a little more closely, they don't “clearly delineate” any goddam thing except a charter of federal government. They don't say one damned thing about “the American People.” They prescribe certain duties and proscribe certain actions (including, in the Bill of Rights, certain specific egregious violations of the individual rights of “the American People”).

Those “Articles of the Constitution” are marked “Attention: Officer of Civil Government,” and do not bind in any way the lives, liberties, or property of “the American People.”

The Constitution is not a suicide pact. It's a death sentence – for any politician or bureaucrat who steps out of line.

See the Second Amendment.

And if you want to redefine “society” to mean something neither the conservatives nor us libertarians will stand for, consider – hey, ain't that funny? – most of the millions and millions of firearms in this country (and the know-how to use them) are in the hands of conservatives and their likely co-belligerents.

That includes just about all of the military, if you're thinking on trying to leverage government's “goons with guns” to your grasshopper purposes.

You like the Constitution? Think “checks and balances.”

You might have the government – for now. Your prey will always have the firepower.

And they'll get the government back, whether you like it or not.

When they do, the precedents your political tools are establishing right now will be used against you.

Just a warning. Remember, I'm not a conservative.

I just know 'em a helluva lot better than you do.

BHO's mother Stannie Dunham was born in Kansas and later moved to Hawaii with her parents. She started college there at age 17 and became sexually active with the first & only biracial (part-Arab/part-black)student who was a Kenyan-Brit named Obama. After first semester she was quite pregnant & the two were married even though another wife was waiting in Africa. That summer the newlyweds took a trip to Kenya when Stannie was over 7mos. along. Although Grandma Obama claimed to have been present at BHO's birth in Kenya the accepted account is that Stannie was somehow able to return to Honolulu in a DC3 propjob by August 4, 1961 & gave birth to Junior(reportedly at one of 2 hospitals). Senior returned to college there & Stannie, who still wasn't a legal adult, went off to the state of Washington w/o Junior for the Fall semester. An image of a Hawaiian COLB for BHO is available online which claims there at least once was an original Birth Certificate on file there and that BC was almost certainly from Hawaii(a state notorious for handing out BCs to those born elsewhere). Wasn't too long before the Obamas split-up. In a further attempt to make her parents proud young Stannie went off to Indonesia w/Junior, renounced her US citizenship & married another moslem named Lolo Soetoro. Alledgedly Soetoro adopted young Barry so he could attend school as an Indonesian-Moslem and learn to write his new name in Arabic. About five years later ten-year-old Barry was sent to visit the Dunhams but they raised him to adulthood while Stannie had little sis Maya and proceeded to divorce Soetoro. This explains how Obama, as Indonesian Barry Soetoro, was able to get a passport to Pakistan in 1981 and apply to Occidental College as a 'foreign student'. Many cases have been brought against BHO challenging his eligibilty to even run for president. The Supreme Court has refused to hear them for various reasons. Why hasn't Obama/Soetoro counter-sued for libel? Probably because then he would have to produce the documents and records in question with whatever info it is he doesn't want made public.

@RedGraham:

Everything in your post — AND I DO MEAN EVERYTHING — is false. You are either stupid or purposely mendacious.

Two key points are especially egregious: Obama's mother NEVER traveled to Kenya (easily verifiable); and travel to Pakistan was NOT restricted by either the U.S. or Pakistani governments in 1981. There was a “travel advisory,” warning of unrest in Pakistan, which are common statements from the State Department for travelers. But there was NO ban on travel to Pakistan (this is also easily verifiable).

The reason the Supreme Court has refused to hear any of these silly lawsuits is because THEY HAVE NO MERIT. How many times do you birthers need to be told that before it will sink in?

Obama is not going to sue the birthers for libel because a) famous figures are frequently attacked and rarely sue, because a lawsuit only propagates the slander and b) HE HAS OTHER THINGS TO DO AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES THAN ANSWER TO PARANOID RUMORS.

the full state records would probably show Obama was adopted by the Indonesian Muslim Lolo Soetoro and became formally known as “Barry Soetoro.”

“…probably show…?”

Your full records would “probably show” that you've been in and out of mental health care your entire life. See how that works? You can attach “probably show” to any damn statement, but it doesn't make it either true, accurate, or apropos.

Again, EVERYTHING in your original post if false, and there is nothing in these birther lawsuits that merits any kind of serious consideration in the courts.

[...] own magazine published this error-filled, birther-inspired screed that cites, among other things, the guy who circulated the Michelle Obama “whitey tape” rumors last fall. Several prominent Republican [...]

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[...] Andrew McCarthy Embarrasses National Review « The Washington … [...]

wlyweds took a trip to Kenya when Stannie was over 7mos. along. Although Grandma Obama claimed to have been present at BHO's birth in Kenya the accepted account is that Stannie was somehow able to return to Honolulu in a DC3 propjob by August 4,

[...] Just when the National Review had extricated themselves from Birtherism, Andrew McCarthy drags them back in. Oh, and did he claim Larry Johnson, who pretended for a year to have the famous “Whitey [...]

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The reason the Supreme Court has refused to hear any of these silly lawsuits is because THEY HAVE NO MERIT.

The reason the Supreme Court has refused to hear any of these silly lawsuits is because THEY HAVE NO MERIT.

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