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	<title>Comments on: Hawaii Battles the Birthers, Again</title>
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		<title>By: Tuci78</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-65119</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuci78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-65119</guid>
		<description>Hm. Got any references on those notions.  I&#039;m not really accustomed to auditing the conservatives&#039; stuff online (and I don&#039;t count &lt;a href=&quot;http://Cato.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cato.org&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://Mises.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mises.org&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://FEE.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FEE.org&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://LewRockwell.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;LewRockwell.com&lt;/a&gt; as &quot;conservative&quot; because when you get right down to it, they tend to hammer the lugnuts off the Republicans just as much as off the National Socialists).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Some links would be appreciated.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm. Got any references on those notions.  I&#39;m not really accustomed to auditing the conservatives&#39; stuff online (and I don&#39;t count <a href="http://Cato.org" rel="nofollow">Cato.org</a> and <a href="http://Mises.org" rel="nofollow">Mises.org</a> and <a href="http://FEE.org" rel="nofollow">FEE.org</a> and <a href="http://LewRockwell.com" rel="nofollow">LewRockwell.com</a> as &#8220;conservative&#8221; because when you get right down to it, they tend to hammer the lugnuts off the Republicans just as much as off the National Socialists).</p>
<p>Some links would be appreciated.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: RedGraham</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-65053</link>
		<dc:creator>RedGraham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think England is keeping Michael Savage out as they fear he will uncover some juicy tidbit there just like Kenya is keeping Jerome Corsi out &amp; has a gag-order on the usurper&#039;s relatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think England is keeping Michael Savage out as they fear he will uncover some juicy tidbit there just like Kenya is keeping Jerome Corsi out &#038; has a gag-order on the usurper&#39;s relatives.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuci78</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-65001</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuci78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-65001</guid>
		<description>Arguable, but perhaps not supportable under the 14th Amendment &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;had Barry Soetoro been born in Honolulu instead of his native Mombasa&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;. This is why Barry and all his little ACORN elves have to dig, bury, and cover like a housecat overdosed on castor oil.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also why Barry is dead frantic to keep his &quot;vault&quot; information in the state of Hawaii out of the hands of a judge in any jurisdiction, and will &lt;u&gt;not&lt;/u&gt; surrender that Certification of Live Birth he&#039;d supposedly gotten in 2007 (and from which those &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;computer graphic images&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; had ostensibly been scanned in June 2008) for evaluation by any sort of trained, experienced, qualified forensic documents examiners prepared to detect alterations or other evidence of forgeries in that physical document.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;While I would like to see Barry Soetoro carted off by &lt;i&gt;la migra&lt;/i&gt; (&quot;Do we deport him to Indonesia or to Kenya? Wanna flip a coin?&quot;), I suspect he qualifies as a &lt;b&gt;naturalized&lt;/b&gt; citizen of these United States.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But natural born?  Never was, never could be, and he belongs in prison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arguable, but perhaps not supportable under the 14th Amendment <b><i>had Barry Soetoro been born in Honolulu instead of his native Mombasa</i></b>. This is why Barry and all his little ACORN elves have to dig, bury, and cover like a housecat overdosed on castor oil.  </p>
<p>Also why Barry is dead frantic to keep his &#8220;vault&#8221; information in the state of Hawaii out of the hands of a judge in any jurisdiction, and will <u>not</u> surrender that Certification of Live Birth he&#39;d supposedly gotten in 2007 (and from which those <b><i>computer graphic images</i></b> had ostensibly been scanned in June 2008) for evaluation by any sort of trained, experienced, qualified forensic documents examiners prepared to detect alterations or other evidence of forgeries in that physical document.</p>
<p>While I would like to see Barry Soetoro carted off by <i>la migra</i> (&#8220;Do we deport him to Indonesia or to Kenya? Wanna flip a coin?&#8221;), I suspect he qualifies as a <b>naturalized</b> citizen of these United States.</p>
<p>But natural born?  Never was, never could be, and he belongs in prison.</p>
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		<title>By: RedGraham</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-64998</link>
		<dc:creator>RedGraham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-64998</guid>
		<description>Having been a British citizen at birth, Obama was therefore a natural born subject of Great Britain until he was adopted in Indonesia anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having been a British citizen at birth, Obama was therefore a natural born subject of Great Britain until he was adopted in Indonesia anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuci78</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-63713</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuci78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-63713</guid>
		<description>Really?  &quot;&lt;i&gt;Actually, the Certificate of Live Birth is the best way of verifying birth&lt;/i&gt;,&quot; eh?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Okay. So all Barry Soetoro has to do is put that COLB - the physical, print-on-paper, signed and sealed legal document he got from the state government of Hawaii in 2007 - on the bench in front of a judge and say &quot;Here y&#039;go, your honor.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So why d&#039;you think he not only hasn&#039;t done that but refuses - with fang and claw - to do so?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Barry doesn&#039;t need the original birth certificate, but he does need something more than easily-doctored computer graphic images that can&#039;t be evaluated for &quot;genuineness or non-genuineness&quot; by a forensic documents examiner.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The print-on-paper COLB, though, &lt;u&gt;can&lt;/u&gt; be so examined, and the sworn testimony of a trained, experienced, qualified expert witness on such evidentiary materials can be entered in support of Barry&#039;s claim that he is qualified to hold the public office he&#039;s being paid to serve in.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So if &quot;&lt;i&gt;The Certificate of Live Birth&lt;/i&gt; [actually, it&#039;s &lt;u&gt;&lt;b&gt;Certification&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/u&gt;] &lt;i&gt;is the best, and only true, acceptable form,&lt;/i&gt;&quot; then why hasn&#039;t Barry provided it?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The image of a document, Sherrill, is not the document itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really?  &#8220;<i>Actually, the Certificate of Live Birth is the best way of verifying birth</i>,&#8221; eh?</p>
<p>Okay. So all Barry Soetoro has to do is put that COLB &#8211; the physical, print-on-paper, signed and sealed legal document he got from the state government of Hawaii in 2007 &#8211; on the bench in front of a judge and say &#8220;Here y&#39;go, your honor.&#8221;</p>
<p>So why d&#39;you think he not only hasn&#39;t done that but refuses &#8211; with fang and claw &#8211; to do so?</p>
<p>Barry doesn&#39;t need the original birth certificate, but he does need something more than easily-doctored computer graphic images that can&#39;t be evaluated for &#8220;genuineness or non-genuineness&#8221; by a forensic documents examiner.</p>
<p>The print-on-paper COLB, though, <u>can</u> be so examined, and the sworn testimony of a trained, experienced, qualified expert witness on such evidentiary materials can be entered in support of Barry&#39;s claim that he is qualified to hold the public office he&#39;s being paid to serve in.</p>
<p>So if &#8220;<i>The Certificate of Live Birth</i> [actually, it&#39;s <u><b>Certification</b></u>] <i>is the best, and only true, acceptable form,</i>&#8221; then why hasn&#39;t Barry provided it?</p>
<p>The image of a document, Sherrill, is not the document itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherrill</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-63706</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-63706</guid>
		<description>And here I thought it was Barack Joe Bob Obama</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here I thought it was Barack Joe Bob Obama</p>
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		<title>By: Sherrill</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-63705</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-63705</guid>
		<description>Even if your dual citizenship crap were true, you do not automatically lose US citizenship by becoming a citizen of another country, adopted as a minor, or not. So sayeth the US Supreme Court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if your dual citizenship crap were true, you do not automatically lose US citizenship by becoming a citizen of another country, adopted as a minor, or not. So sayeth the US Supreme Court.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherrill</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-63703</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-63703</guid>
		<description>***But, this &quot;Certificate of Live Birth&quot; is simply not the best evidence that the President and his administration could offer to lay to rest any doubt about his status as a natural born citizen***&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Actually, the Certificate of Live Birth is the best way of verifying birth. That is what states issue when you order &quot;birth certificates&quot; from them. You don&#039;t get an &quot;original&quot;, those aren&#039;t issued, even when it is the first one you get from the state for the birth of a child. The Certificate of Live Birth is the best, and only true, acceptable form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>***But, this &#8220;Certificate of Live Birth&#8221; is simply not the best evidence that the President and his administration could offer to lay to rest any doubt about his status as a natural born citizen***</p>
<p>Actually, the Certificate of Live Birth is the best way of verifying birth. That is what states issue when you order &#8220;birth certificates&#8221; from them. You don&#39;t get an &#8220;original&#8221;, those aren&#39;t issued, even when it is the first one you get from the state for the birth of a child. The Certificate of Live Birth is the best, and only true, acceptable form.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuci78</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-61050</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuci78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-61050</guid>
		<description>From &lt;a href=&quot;http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2009/08/05/4a79c4716da39&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Hahn&lt;/a&gt;, &quot;Publisher, &lt;a href=&quot;http://StatePaper.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;StatePaper.com&lt;/a&gt; &quot; August 5, 2009.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;b&gt;Publisher: Obama Should Produce Original Birth Certificate&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;At &lt;a href=&quot;http://StatePaper.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;StatePaper.com&lt;/a&gt;, we know by making this statement we will be instantly tagged as &quot;racist,&quot; &quot;birther,&quot; or other pejorative terms by those who defend the President of the United States. We often defend the President and the job he is doing and are regularly lambasted for being &quot;too liberal&quot; or an &quot;Obama lover&quot; by some of our most prolific critics.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But, here is the issue:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of our country. Article II of the Constitution requires the President to be a natural born citizen. Without reciting them here, there appears to be some serious questions raised about whether President Obama was born in the United States or Kenya. We have not checked sources, but there are reports that some witnessed his birth in Kenya.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The President&#039;s campaign staff and then his administration have released and placed on the internet a &quot;Certificate of Live Birth.&quot; We do not dispute the validity or correctness of that document as others have tried to do, suggesting the use of computers to alter seals and names. By releasing this document the President agrees that the claims about his status as a natural born citizen is an open, important, public issue.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But, this &quot;Certificate of Live Birth&quot; is simply not the best evidence that the President and his administration could offer to lay to rest any doubt about his status as a natural born citizen.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Barack Obama is a lawyer and a graduate of Harvard Law School. All law students study the body of law we call &quot;Evidence.&quot; One of the core tenets of American law is the &quot;best evidence rule&quot; which requires the production of original, or certified copies, of original document to prove a fact. Abstracts and summaries are not original documents.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The President has offered an abstract (Certificate) of his birth, but not an original birth certificate which would be the best evidence of his birth. We need the best evidence so that it can do what the best evidence is meant to do; dispel the doubts about a fact. We need to see the Birth Certificate. That&#039;s the one that is often handwritten and signed by the doctor.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Lawyers and legal thinkers will, obviously, argue the finer points of the &quot;Best Evidence Rule&quot; and its applicability to this matter. But, that misses the point. The notion of &quot;Best Evidence&quot; is solidly-grounded in law. This is an important public matter and it seems now that the President has started down the path of offering some evidence (Certificate of Live Birth), he should offer the &quot;best evidence&quot; (Original Birth Certificate) which is the source document for his birth. The document behind the document which has been released. This is what is needed now in the court of public knowledge.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The fact in question here is the constitutional qualification of the President of the United States to hold office. With a simple nod, the President could offer the American people the best evidence, the source document(s), as he learned about at Harvard, and dispel those who question his birth as a natural born citizen. His failure to provide this best evidence, when it could be so easily done, raises only more questions, which fuels an ugly public debate.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And now we&#039;ve got a &quot;Liberal&quot; Nebraska newspaper advising Barry to cough up his birth certificate. Can &lt;i&gt;The New York Times&lt;/i&gt; be far behind?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If he can. Anybody ready to watch our TelePrompTer-in-Chief taking the Fifth? History in the making, kids!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From <a href="http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2009/08/05/4a79c4716da39" rel="nofollow">David Hahn</a>, &#8220;Publisher, <a href="http://StatePaper.com" rel="nofollow">StatePaper.com</a> &#8221; August 5, 2009.</p>
<p><b>Publisher: Obama Should Produce Original Birth Certificate</b></p>
<p><i>At <a href="http://StatePaper.com" rel="nofollow">StatePaper.com</a>, we know by making this statement we will be instantly tagged as &#8220;racist,&#8221; &#8220;birther,&#8221; or other pejorative terms by those who defend the President of the United States. We often defend the President and the job he is doing and are regularly lambasted for being &#8220;too liberal&#8221; or an &#8220;Obama lover&#8221; by some of our most prolific critics.</p>
<p>But, here is the issue:</p>
<p>The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of our country. Article II of the Constitution requires the President to be a natural born citizen. Without reciting them here, there appears to be some serious questions raised about whether President Obama was born in the United States or Kenya. We have not checked sources, but there are reports that some witnessed his birth in Kenya.</p>
<p>The President&#39;s campaign staff and then his administration have released and placed on the internet a &#8220;Certificate of Live Birth.&#8221; We do not dispute the validity or correctness of that document as others have tried to do, suggesting the use of computers to alter seals and names. By releasing this document the President agrees that the claims about his status as a natural born citizen is an open, important, public issue.</p>
<p>But, this &#8220;Certificate of Live Birth&#8221; is simply not the best evidence that the President and his administration could offer to lay to rest any doubt about his status as a natural born citizen.</p>
<p>Barack Obama is a lawyer and a graduate of Harvard Law School. All law students study the body of law we call &#8220;Evidence.&#8221; One of the core tenets of American law is the &#8220;best evidence rule&#8221; which requires the production of original, or certified copies, of original document to prove a fact. Abstracts and summaries are not original documents.</p>
<p>The President has offered an abstract (Certificate) of his birth, but not an original birth certificate which would be the best evidence of his birth. We need the best evidence so that it can do what the best evidence is meant to do; dispel the doubts about a fact. We need to see the Birth Certificate. That&#39;s the one that is often handwritten and signed by the doctor.</p>
<p>Lawyers and legal thinkers will, obviously, argue the finer points of the &#8220;Best Evidence Rule&#8221; and its applicability to this matter. But, that misses the point. The notion of &#8220;Best Evidence&#8221; is solidly-grounded in law. This is an important public matter and it seems now that the President has started down the path of offering some evidence (Certificate of Live Birth), he should offer the &#8220;best evidence&#8221; (Original Birth Certificate) which is the source document for his birth. The document behind the document which has been released. This is what is needed now in the court of public knowledge.</p>
<p>The fact in question here is the constitutional qualification of the President of the United States to hold office. With a simple nod, the President could offer the American people the best evidence, the source document(s), as he learned about at Harvard, and dispel those who question his birth as a natural born citizen. His failure to provide this best evidence, when it could be so easily done, raises only more questions, which fuels an ugly public debate.</i></p>
<p>And now we&#39;ve got a &#8220;Liberal&#8221; Nebraska newspaper advising Barry to cough up his birth certificate. Can <i>The New York Times</i> be far behind?</p>
<p>If he can. Anybody ready to watch our TelePrompTer-in-Chief taking the Fifth? History in the making, kids!</p>
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		<title>By: newsmonger</title>
		<link>http://washingtonindependent.com/52887/hawaii-battles-the-birthers-again/comment-page-1#comment-57775</link>
		<dc:creator>newsmonger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://washingtonindependent.com/?p=52887#comment-57775</guid>
		<description>The black guy won, get over it. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Constitutional Natural born means &quot;born in USA soil&quot;; statutory natural born means means born outside US soil to US citizens. Obama was a constitutional natural born &amp; McCain was a statutory natural born.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You can lost your US citizenship by merely taking a different name; and you cannot loss it by what someone else did on your behalf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The black guy won, get over it. </p>
<p>Constitutional Natural born means &#8220;born in USA soil&#8221;; statutory natural born means means born outside US soil to US citizens. Obama was a constitutional natural born &#038; McCain was a statutory natural born.</p>
<p>You can lost your US citizenship by merely taking a different name; and you cannot loss it by what someone else did on your behalf.</p>
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