Don’t Assume Tiller’s Killer Acted Alone

We need to clamp down on these fringe fanatics of that call themselves “pro-lifers”. People should be able to seek family planning services without facing a gauntlet of violent right-wing nutcases. Lets call Operation Rescue what it is, a domestic terrorist organisation.

On one pro-life blog I read today, the writer encouraged readers to consider an overthrow of the government similar to the military coup in Ghana. Apparently these folks can encourage any sort of violence against their enemies with impungnity.

Sure, and while we're at it, let's call abortion what it is: murder of innocents.

You want to investigate and criminalize speech. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. And it will be used against you in the future.

Why is it that animal rights activists that bomb a lab are considered domestic terrorists and if a group of them get together to have dinner, it's a terrorist cell?

However, if anti-choice people get on a message board like Free Republic, a right-wing conservative haven for whack jobs–they've had three prior members arrested for violence against others; one being an anthrax threat–and talk about killing a doctor they are a lone actor even though others encouraged said behavior?

@Commonsense: It is your view that abortion is the “murder of innocents.” However, until the law changes the only innocent that was murdered was Dr. Tiller.

Anyone that has allowed themselves to believe that this guy acted alone is delusional. After the last 30 years of hate speech coming from “Christians” that don't follow Christ's teachings brought this guy to this act. He will suffer the most for it, but he deserves to as do his co-conspiritors in the extrememly radical anti-abortion ranks.

The killer is in jail charged with murder. What do you mean by “clamp down”

If a Muslim made a threat of violence in the name of Islam, would he be investigated, or would that be protected as free speech? He'd be investigated by the authorities in a second. Why shouldn't the anti-abortion zealots be as well? The purpose of this kind of violence is not only to kill one person, but to intimidate anyone else who provides this kind of service. It is the use of violence or the threat of violence for political purposes. In short, it is terrorism.

The far-right anti-abortion zealots are domestic terrorists. I'm not saying that all pro-lifers are terrorists. But the fact remains that violence and murder has come ONLY from the pro-life side. Eight people murdered and at least 17 attempted murders. Fundamentalism is dangerous, no matter what belief system it comes from, whether Muslim or Christian.

Don't you find it interesting that leftist zealots like Rachel Maddow call for the investigation and prosecution of pundits that are outspoken against institutionalized murder of babies? She and her ilk are the very same folks that publically celebrated the deaths of citizens they don't politically agree with (like Tony Snow) and in some cases called for (incited) violence against a sitting President and Vice President (Daily Kos , MoveOn.com and Media Matters). Then when criticized, they all stated their rights to do so under the first amendment. When are we the citizens of this country going to realize that the rules don't apply to democrats and leftist at all? They will continue to lie, cheat and steal our country away from us until there is nothing left. Sorry, abortion is murder, PERIOD!

There is no such thing as a “Christian” that doesn't follow Christ's teachings, by mere definition. Just as if I say I'm a car, doesn't make me one. No true Christian promtoes or endorses killing – especially of innocents, or even of a misguided “doctor”.

Show evidence of Maddow “celebrating” the death of Tony Snow, or the groups you mentioned explicitely inciting violence against any president, or else go back under the bridge you came from, troll.

If the church Tiller’s murderer attended preaches violence (even in private), the church's nonprofit status should be revoked. That should apply to all religious institutions. The state shouldn't support or tolerate organizations that foment violence.

“But the fact remains that violence and murder has come ONLY from the pro-life side. “

Let's see here….

in a 12 year period of time from 1933 to 1945 a very bad man killed 11 million persons (6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews) via concentration camps, ect. By his own words, they were not human and not wanted.

However, every year there are approximately 42 Million unborn children that are killed worldwide and 1.37 Million of those are in the U.S. 1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child (those figures are for worldwide abortions and are dramatically lower in developed countries such as the U.S.).

In comparison, 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient) and the term murder can't apply because it has been determined that the child “is not human”. Sounds to me like it is just another double standard (and I say “another” so I'll be asked to give examples. Here you go). If I am in the woods and decide to make an omelet out of a bald eagle egg it is illegal because they (bald eagles) are endangered and I killed one (at least that would be the charge), however, I didn't kill one if we use the same standards abortion advocates use with babies. If I hit a pregnant woman crossing the street and she dies I can be charged with DOUBLE homicide, though if she makes it across the street to the abortion clinic it is not homicide.

Abortion is a medical procedure. I'm talking about violence as part of the abortion debate. A pro-lifer has never had to fear for their life from someone who is pro-choice. Whether you agree or disagree on abortion, terrorism is never justified. The pro-life movement needs to root out murderous fundamentalists from their midst, but many times they encourage them and guide them by singling out people like Dr. Tiller. They need to stop harassing people and publicizing people's home addresses. Even if they don't pull the trigger themselves, they are complicit in terrorism.

And condemning this murder while saying “he got what he deserved” is hypocrisy.

Sorry Bill, according to the law, abortion is not murder. Abortion is a highly common, legal procedure that is safer than childbirth.
Murder is a legal term. Using that language necessitates the application of punishment. If you disagree with the law than you must work to change the law. Further, you must decide what the punishment must be if someone breaks that law. If abortion is considered murder than both the doctor and the woman must be punished. What do you suppose that punishment should be? Would you propose sending the one million women who obtain abortions in the US every year to prison? What will you do to support those women's families?
If the pro-birth movement could get past their reactionary rhetoric and offer real solutions for women and families perhaps they could be of some use. As of now, your views are worthless.

I love to see the lefties talk about limiting free speech. It gives me the giggles. These are the people that think pornography should be protected speech, but protesting the killing of our children is dangerous. Does anyone take these people seriously anymore?

“offer real solutions for women “

Here is one the Pro-life movement keeps offering the pro-”choice” movement, but keeps getting knocked down for being too radical and too limiting:
exercise your choice not to have sex or choose to suffer the consequences of your actions.

Would you play Russian Roulette and expect no consequences?
Would you quit your job and expect to still get a pay check?
even better…
If someone got themselves drunk out of their mind and hoped into their car and ran down one of your relatives or friends, would you expect them to have no consequences?

“Sorry Bill, according to the law, abortion is not murder.”
and according to the law if 3 Native Americans are walking together in North Dakota it is considered a raiding party and you can legally shoot them, it doesn't make it right, just legal.
According to the law, the death penalty is not murder. Strangely enough, many of the people who are for the killing of an innocent human life because they are inconvenient (abortion) are not for the killing of one that is not innocent because they killed people (death penalty).

Yeah, and how many adopted kids do you have? How many of “our children” have you helped in your life? Give me a break. If you feel the need to be holier than everyone, go adopt some kids who are rotting at an orphanage now. Or take in that single mom who didn't go through with the abortion and now is prostituting herself out there.

“Whether you agree or disagree on abortion, terrorism is never justified.”
I agree completely, but will go one step farther,

Just because it is legal doesn't make genocide justified.

“Yeah, and how many adopted kids do you have? “
Six, and how many have you killed so that I couldn't have the opportunity to help?

First of all, a child should never be considered “a consequence.” What I mean by solutions are suggestions as to how to deal with the children who are considered “consequences” and as a result are neglected and abused. starved and abandoned.

Your reference to russion roulette is interesting. Surely you didn't mean to equate a woman's unwanted pregnancy with the potential for her death as I'm sure you know, women who are unable to access safe and legal abortions resort to back alley or self-induced abortions and as a result end up dead. So, in that sense your analogy illustrates the need for safe and legal abortion quite nicely.
Finally, your point about the law not always being right is fine with me. However, if you are against the law you need to provide a well informed reason and logic to explain your disagreement and you need to offer policies that will deal with the consequences of changing the law.
The reality with abortion is this. Women have been having abortions since they've been having babies. Abortion was largely unregulated in the United States unitl the first Right to Life movement emerged in the late eighteenth century. In fact, the Catholic Church didn't verbally voice opposition to abortion until 1869. Once physicians, lawmakers, and citizens realized the negative effects of restricting abortion they advocated for abortion reform and eventually repeal of abortion laws. Abortion was made legal for a reason. Just because you don't like that decision doesn't mean you have the right to ignore the facts.

Except that it is completely possible to have and enjoy sex and avoid pregnancy.

This brings up an important and related point. Why are so many pro-lifers so against contraception? Why do they prefer to keep young adults ignorant and defenseless by pushing abstinence when it's shown again and again that it doesn't work? By not teaching teens about contraception and condoms, conservatives are helping increase unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions! Ask Sarah Palin how well abstinence works. It failed her daughter, who is well off and comes from a two parent family. How is it going to work for everyone else?

The quickest and most efficient way of reducing abortions is to inform young people on how to avoid unwanted pregnancies (and you'll be saving many adult lives as well, even if pro-lifers don't care about adult lives, especially those adults who enjoy sex).

Stay out of our lives, conservaturds and stop forcing your religion on everyone else!

I know it's a good soundbite, but abortion is not genocide.

If you don't like abortions, don't get one. But don't force your beliefs on others, and don't intervene in a choice that is between a woman and her physician.

check that: I meant to say late nineteenth century. specifically between 1850 and 1890.

Agreed:

If the killer of the killer*, Tiller, acted as the consequence of a criminal conspiracy of any kind and by the members of any institution, then the Law must be free to pursue its course and to seek retribution, to see justice is done.

And what about the “church” of whose congregation the killer*, Tiller, was an apparently “respected” member?

By your rationalization, shouldn't the church burners be sent to see to its doors being locked one Sunday morning prior to their burning it to the ground?

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles Califotillercated 90028
And the Far Abroad

*Euphamism for what he actually was: a mass murder.

The people who attack abortion providers are fanatical Christian terrorists pure and simple. They claim that they are “defending life”! Really. Where are they when their evangelical president bombs the hell out of an Afghan village, attack Iraq to steal its oil or commits torture, or nukes Nagasaki? Oh, I guess those people don't deserve life because their not Christian???

The “pro-life” movement is an oxymoron that is home to some of the most hate-filled, intolerant and psychopathic individuals in the world. Their goal is nothing more than to force the bible down our throats and evangelize all of us! It starts with abortion providers but who is next…Liberals, Muslims, Blacks, all Democrats???? This act was a politically motivated act of terrorism that is meant to take away rights and discourage debate.

Time to get tough with the fanatics. In the past we had the Black Panthers or the Weather Underground fighting for the Left with some muscle! Who does this today???
“One of ours, Now one of Theirs” should be our new slogan!! Time to fight back.

This article loses any claim to objectivity and honesty when it cites Franky Schaeffer as a source. It only makes liberals lool that guillible. Schaeffer has for decades ridicule and mock his parents, even while his mom was alive, even over her looks. And it has nothing to do with political or moral issues like abortion, but because he became an Eastern Orthodox convert so felt the need to demonize his parents and anyone who are evangelical Protestants. He has been doing it for decades, and this, among with other countless examples, are just one of the latest opportunity he used to smear and take more cheapshots at his parents, while disgusing that as an apology. He is no role model of civility, and many of his vitrolic words can be taken as “hate speech” (even call to rid the world of) against conservative Christians, far more than 95 percent of pro-lifers can say about abortionists. Pro-lifers see abortion as murder, but oppose taking the law into one's own hand to murder abortionists. In actuality, that was the view of his own father Francis, whose words Franky attempt to twist. Franky has no honor, no code, no integrity whatsoever.

It is funny that the pro-life movement should be painted as extremists. This is the first case of a death of an abortion doctor in about a decade. If the pro-life movement is all about murdering abortion doctors, then how come there is but a few deaths of abortion doctors in the 36 years of Roe v Wade?

How come liberals don't say Muslims are all extremists, because of far more cases of violence done in the mane of their religion, but say that these acts of violences do not speak for all Muslims, but only the extremist ones?

If what pro-lifers say are hate speech, then what about things Olbermann and other folks on MSNBC say in hateful forms against conservatives? What about the tasteless Olbmernann and Musto jokes about Prejean? What about incitements to rape of conservative women like Palin and Malkin by liberal writers?

Those words actually and directly call for violents to take place. Pro-lifers object to abortion precisely because we see abortion as VIOLENT acts against humanity.

This article loses any claim to objectivity and honesty when it cites Franky Schaeffer as a source. It only makes liberals lool that guillible. Schaeffer has for decades ridicule and mock his parents, even while his mom was alive, even over her looks. And it has nothing to do with political or moral issues like abortion, but because he became an Eastern Orthodox convert so felt the need to demonize his parents and anyone who are evangelical Protestants. He has been doing it for decades, and this, among with other countless examples, are just one of the latest opportunity he used to smear and take more cheapshots at his parents, while disgusing that as an apology. He is no role model of civility, and many of his vitrolic words can be taken as “hate speech” (even call to rid the world of) against conservative Christians, far more than 95 percent of pro-lifers can say about abortionists. Pro-lifers see abortion as murder, but oppose taking the law into one's own hand to murder abortionists. In actuality, that was the view of his own father Francis, whose words Franky attempt to twist. Franky has no honor, no code, no integrity whatsoever.

It is funny that the pro-life movement should be painted as extremists. This is the first case of a death of an abortion doctor in about a decade. If the pro-life movement is all about murdering abortion doctors, then how come there is but a few deaths of abortion doctors in the 36 years of Roe v Wade?

How come liberals don't say Muslims are all extremists, because of far more cases of violence done in the mane of their religion, but say that these acts of violences do not speak for all Muslims, but only the extremist ones?

If what pro-lifers say are hate speech, then what about things Olbermann and other folks on MSNBC say in hateful forms against conservatives? What about the tasteless Olbmernann and Musto jokes about Prejean? What about incitements to rape of conservative women like Palin and Malkin by liberal writers?

Those words actually and directly call for violents to take place. Pro-lifers object to abortion precisely because we see abortion as VIOLENT acts against humanity.

This is irrefutable proof James Van Brunn is a rightwing nutter.

James Van Brunn was a frequent poster on the far-rightwing hate site “Free Republic”.

His postings were well accepted by the “Freepers”.

His hateful screed “Obama is Missing” is signed by him, IN HIS FULL NAME, James W. von Brunn, on December 02, 2008 It is still up on that site… check it out before it’s removed.

His Free Republic nick was “wannabegeek”… read his other rightwing hate posts.

Google Free Republic “Obama is Missing”

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:niXSYG-nVO8…

Type in user, wannabegeek if the link below is broken and read von Brunn’s other rightwing rants as well as the “Freepers” hateful, SUPPORTIVE responses.

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:wannabegeek/…

How do you people who condone killing babies sleep at night? Are you so politicized that you can't see anything without filtering it through your ideological bias? Is it all a matter of location? A baby outside the womb must be protected. A baby inside the womb has no rights at all. Your illogic and callousness makes YOU the ones who seem like “nutters”. It's not progressive. It's not modern. Its barbarism. Just look away and it won't bother you. Use euphemisms. Call others names. Then you can keep your bleeding hearts bone dry. What a world of delusion you live in. A world of abstract thought that ignores the physical realities.

It wasn't a bad post until you used the term, “conservaturds”. You just couldn't refrain from some childishness could you. Too bad. It only makes YOU look bad.

Also, don't always reduce conservative positions to religious belief. Many of those beliefs are quite sensible and have nothing at all to do with religion. And “pro-lifers don't care about adult lives”? More nonsense. Reductivism is a convenient way of ignoring parts of an issue that one can't really refute. Caricature the “opponent” so that he can be ridiculed. Do not for any reason attempt to portray any subtleties or nuances. That makes things too complicated to knock down in a few sentences.