Torture Isn’t Illegal If It’s Done Overseas

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Thursday, April 16, 2009 at 4:14 pm

Here are some highlights from the May 30, 2005 memo from former Office of Legal Counsel director Steven Bradbury:

1) The Convention Against Torture does not apply outside the United States, or anywhere where the US does not have de facto control: hence, it does not apply to CIA “black sites”, which are in other countries. Therefore, the CIA can torture people there and not have to worry about the law.

2) However, even if the CAT did apply, it only applies if the techniques “shock the conscience” in a constitutional sense. Because the methods are derived from SERE techniques which are part of U.S. military training (albeit training for soldiers to resist torture by foreign captors), and because the techniques are “carefully limited to further the Government’s paramount interest in protecting the Nation while avoiding unnecessary harm,” the OLC concludes that they do not “shock the conscience.”

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The Bush program of torture « Later On
Pingback posted April 16, 2009 @ 4:32 pm

[...] memos frantically, and already scanned images are starting to be posted. Daphne Eviatar has an interesting observation: Here are some highlights from the May 30, 2005 memo from former Office of Legal Counsel director [...]


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Hawaiianstyle
Comment posted April 19, 2009 @ 11:32 am

Don't you like the emperors new clothes.

“The government made me do it”

“I was just following orders”

The time for all that camouflage is over.

1. WE TORTURED.
2.. WE BROKE THE INTERNATIONAL LAW THAT WE HELPED WRITE AND AGREED TO FOLLOW.
3. WE PROSECUTED FOREIGNERS FOR WATERBOARDING TORTURE IN THE PAST!!!!!!!!

??????????SO ARE WE GOING TO IGNORE IT NOW THAT WE'VE DONE IT????????????????????

Has the double standard between the common man and the high government official grown so pervasive, so common, so blatant that we as a people will accept it without saying anything?

If we let our Government get away with saying lets just move on, we become after the fact complicit.

Investigating and Prosecuting those that break the law is what governments do. It is the mark of a nation that says no man is above the law. It is a mark of a leader whether he/she is a public prosecutor in a small town fighting corruption or a President of a Once Great Nation doing what he knows will be divisive and unpopular. However, it is what is needed, required, if we are to be a nation of laws.

We can be popular and admired (on the surface) in the family of Nations for giving aid to poor countries.
Or, we can be truly admired as a charitable nation that is not only generous, but honorable and courageous. A Nation that walks the walk as well as talks the talk. A nation where its citizens trust their government because it treats all men equally with no man or class of citizens above the law.

Our leaders are making an historic decision now. ARE WE A NATION WHERE THE LAW APPLIES TO ALL MEN, OR ARE WE A NATION WHERE WE CONN OUR PEOPLE INTO IGNORING THE LAW BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO ENFORCE IT.

HAVE WE VOTED IN CHARISMATIC POLITICIANS THAT WILL GIVE US A BETTER FLAVOR OF MORE OF THE SAME?

OR, WILL THE PRESENT MEN GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE ONES THAT TURNED THIS NATION BACK TO THE PATH THAT WE ONCE FOLLOWED. A NATION WHERE LAWS MATTERED TO ALL CLASSES OF PEOPLE.

ARE WE A NATION WHERE NO MAN…. WELL ONLY A FEW…… ARE ABOVE THE LAW?

OR, ARE WE A NATION WHERE LAWS APPLY TO ALL CLASSES AND ALL GROUPS?


Hawaiianstyle
Comment posted April 19, 2009 @ 6:32 pm

Don't you like the emperors new clothes.

“The government made me do it”

“I was just following orders”

The time for all that camouflage is over.

1. WE TORTURED.
2.. WE BROKE THE INTERNATIONAL LAW THAT WE HELPED WRITE AND AGREED TO FOLLOW.
3. WE PROSECUTED FOREIGNERS FOR WATERBOARDING TORTURE IN THE PAST!!!!!!!!

??????????SO ARE WE GOING TO IGNORE IT NOW THAT WE'VE DONE IT????????????????????

Has the double standard between the common man and the high government official grown so pervasive, so common, so blatant that we as a people will accept it without saying anything?

If we let our Government get away with saying lets just move on, we become after the fact complicit.

Investigating and Prosecuting those that break the law is what governments do. It is the mark of a nation that says no man is above the law. It is a mark of a leader whether he/she is a public prosecutor in a small town fighting corruption or a President of a Once Great Nation doing what he knows will be divisive and unpopular. However, it is what is needed, required, if we are to be a nation of laws.

We can be popular and admired (on the surface) in the family of Nations for giving aid to poor countries.
Or, we can be truly admired as a charitable nation that is not only generous, but honorable and courageous. A Nation that walks the walk as well as talks the talk. A nation where its citizens trust their government because it treats all men equally with no man or class of citizens above the law.

Our leaders are making an historic decision now. ARE WE A NATION WHERE THE LAW APPLIES TO ALL MEN, OR ARE WE A NATION WHERE WE CONN OUR PEOPLE INTO IGNORING THE LAW BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO ENFORCE IT.

HAVE WE VOTED IN CHARISMATIC POLITICIANS THAT WILL GIVE US A BETTER FLAVOR OF MORE OF THE SAME?

OR, WILL THE PRESENT MEN GO DOWN IN HISTORY AS THE ONES THAT TURNED THIS NATION BACK TO THE PATH THAT WE ONCE FOLLOWED. A NATION WHERE LAWS MATTERED TO ALL CLASSES OF PEOPLE.

ARE WE A NATION WHERE NO MAN…. WELL ONLY A FEW…… ARE ABOVE THE LAW?

OR, ARE WE A NATION WHERE LAWS APPLY TO ALL CLASSES AND ALL GROUPS?


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