Scenes From the Real America

By
Monday, April 06, 2009 at 10:54 am

I spent Saturday at the bi-annual Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot, right outside of Louisville, Ky. Gun enthusiasts of all stripes were there — from the National Rifle Association and sportsmen to militia members to white supremacists and Obama birthers. Here’s a collection of choice photos from the show (after the jump):

Above you’ll see the view of the main attraction—a range of metal cans, cars, and a refrigerator being shot at by dozens of military grade weapons.

The view from the other side.

Some of the better merchandise from the exhibit tens. This one says “Prepare for Obama’s Citizen Army (ACORN + Nation of Islam)”

T.P.S. (Utz) is a vendor of weapon and survivalist handbooks which also sells The Anarchist Cookbook and “Hit Man,” a guide to assassination.

Minnesota’s Oak Grove Arms was selling these T-shirts.

Selling a scimitar inside the exhibitors’ tent.

The Nazi merchandise table was notably quiet, and seller Mark Stevens told me that business was slow. But classic German designs were fairly popular with attendees. For example:

Also:

And also:

Sadly, I couldn’t open the plastic to read the book.

The Obama Birthers were here, at one table located near the NRA’s booth, getting a mix of receptive conversations and brush-offs. Here’s Carl Swensson of RiseUpAmerica, who has started a Citizen Jury to indict President Obama.

The Birthers had two sets of petitions, one just for members (or retired members) of the military who wanted to join Orly Taitz’s legal actions against Obama. Taitz is the blonde woman with the pink nametag, obscured slightly by Theresa Padget, the woman in the sweatshirt.

Some good deals on ammo.

The high cost of shooting a machine gun. Spending 75 rounds from an AK-47 would run you $120.

The results!

A pre-WWI maxim gun, displayed by Kent and Kathy Lomont of Idaho, affixed with the infamous Sean Delonas cartoon. The Lomonts declined to explain what the cartoon meant.

The sellers of this T-shirt reported that all three boxes of it had sold out by 3 p.m. on Saturday.

The vast majority of T-shirts were, of course, much more innocuous.

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Comments

716 Comments

junkmailqueen
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:37 am

I am SO confused. How can Hitler be the Revered Leader while “Hitler gave great speeches too” is used as a put-down of Obama … at the same time? I don't think there's ANY brain activity there. Frightening.


i_hate_idiots
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:42 am

If Obama/Biden 2012 is the fourth reich, why are some of these people not embracing them?


anon
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:44 am

lotsa backfat in those photos….


TiredoftheBS
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:45 am

let's play army guys! Get the Krauts, Japs, Commies, Gooks, Sand Ni**ers, Gays, Muslims, Liberals….Who's next? What a bunch of aholes you yahoos are.


donkeydonk
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:49 am

It seems like some people there like Hitler and hate Obama because he's (half) black. Other people hate Obama because he's like Hitler. Other people hate just Obama because they think he will take their guns. So the only things they have in common seems to be hating Obama and having guns. Secret Service probably has an covert operative there or two, don't you think?


Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:51 am

I hope they didn't put the 'I love Hitler' guy next to the “Obama is Hitler' guy. Doesn't seem like they would be good neighbors.


m
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:55 am

Like Wow!


SuperNintendoChalmers
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:57 am

Why aren't any of these cryptofascist guys selling those cool Nazi leather coats? You can pick up surplus Afrika Korps hats (not to mention “No More Mr. Nice Guy” mouse pads) anywhere; but a genuine Hugo Boss-hemmed leather slicker? Priceless. I'm not asking for that, of course. Just gimme something that was stitched together in China. Or Sri Lanka. Or — speaking of second- or third-world locales — perhaps Alabama. They've got Aryan Outfitters there, right?

On the downside, Knob Creek is awfully good bourbon. I hope the distillery isn't associated with this crap.


The Other Two
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:01 am

Secret Service probably has an covert operative there or two, don't you think?

Probably not SS, but ATF and FBI were most certainly there.


Steve
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:05 am

…affixed with the infamous Sean Delonas cartoon. The Lomonts declined to explain what the cartoon meant.

Of course they did. Even surrounded by guns and ammo, they're whiny little titty-baby cowards. Nothing more pathetic that someone who throws rocks while hiding behind garbage cans.


Robert
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:09 am

“Attorney to sign a subpena for his records.” taken from http://www.riseupforamerica.com/
can't even use spellcheck. I mean come on, it is underlined in my text box as I type this message.


MistaJ
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:27 am

Love to know how many of these retards bought the 'bargain' deal of 75 AK-47 rounds for $120, rather than buying three separate 30 round sessions (90 total rounds) for the same price.

Behold our America of 2009, in all its glory!

I weep for the future….


phinky
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:28 am

Are those two active duty soldiers? Or just posers?


Why
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:29 am

These are the people that gun down police officers!


Why
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:32 am

They look like children.


i_hate_idiots
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:36 am

lol @ MistaJ. I'm sure most of them prolly didn't notice that.


Peter Principle
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:42 am

“Secret Service probably has an covert operative there or two, don't you think?”

Let's just hope it's not the other way around.


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:42 am

That's just sad. Hmm I wonder what the Hitler supporters think of the Obama equals Hitler posters. Ha! And notice that there's all white people. Very interesting. Oh and I see there's an AK-47 there. I wonder for those there know the AK-47 is a Commie (Soviet) gun. Ha!


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:46 am

Of course kill us commies with our own gun lol.


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:47 am

It is and makes my head hurt.


Rick Jacobs
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:48 am

From the extent of the material stretch in those T-shirts, my guess is most of those nuts will have heart attacks before they get around to starting a revolution.


Trotskies
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:52 am

Spellcheck is for Soshulists!


Rascalcat
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:01 am

Where are the “suicide bombers” when they could do some real good? :-)


Jesse
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:07 am

I must say, the attitude toward Nazism strikes me as a bit ambivalent — on the one hand, they like Nazi paraphernalia, on the other hand, they compare Obama to Hitler.


KilgoreTrout XL
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:10 am

So did the guy at the Nazi merchandise table and the dude selling the Hitler/Obama t-shirt (which are at opposite ends of the “hey, maybe hitler wasn't so bad” spectrum) eventually realize that they have to start hating on each other? And then did they have like some kind of harley race-off and a bacon-eating contest? Because I would have liked to have seen pics of that too.

Otherwise nice job on not getting killed.


Rascalcat
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:11 am

The real winner at this event was the concession for deep fried twinkies!


Tony
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:17 am

Well at least viewing the comments here gives me a measure of hope. I love seeing intelligent people respond to this ignorant and juvenile gathering..


Paul Lukas
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:19 am

Best thing is that on the Hitler placemat (or mousepad, or whatever it is), the typeography for the word “HITLER” is clearly patterned after the Hustler magazine logo.


EmmyG
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:36 am

oi. can we not jump to irrelevant and insulting conclusions in order to pick on people when we have GOOD reasons to pick on them?

not all fat people are unhealthy, not all fat people eat gross fried food. Certainly not all fat people are gun nuts and not all gun nuts are fat.

Behave like responsible adults, plz!


Hollis Bennett
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:36 am

Ha. I was there this weekend trying to shoot images as well. Unfortunately, after getting fleeced out of $30.00 to camp in a mud pit and then getting my cell phone stolen, I was not in such a good mood Saturday when I was taking photos. I had numerous 'attendees' approach me and tell me that I was violating their right to privacy. I in turn told them that the same constitution that allows their ignorant, racist asses to own guns allows me the freedom of speech and expression. They obviously did not like me using their own arguments to shut them up. I should have pistol whipped someone.


Cal Damage
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:47 am

Where's the “Reagan Gave Great Speeches, Too” shirt?


Eric
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:48 am

These are the fringe crazies, the wanna-be crazies. The really dangerous sort won't appear at such a public event. So, what is important is the themes that are on display as an indication of what the far right is trying to address with its messages. Clearly, they are trying to find a way to talk about violence and hate both inside their echo chamber and to the population at large whose tacit acceptance they need.

It's also true that shooting a machine gun is remarkably expensive. Between the cost of the guns and the cost of shooting the things for any length of time, an outing at such a show used to run a guy who worked for me over $1,000 per day. The enthusiasts need to hold well paying jobs as well as having a screw loose.


Susan
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:58 am

First of all, why is this titled “the Real America”? If it were the majority of America, Obama wouldn't be prez. This is a bunch of nuts, who do not live in the “real” world. I own some guns, for Deer (in season) snakes when the need arises and a few that have been in the family for the last 50 to 100 years. I think the automatic weapons should be banned (sorry Ted Nugent). But these photos are NOT a portrayal of “The Real America”, just some misguided idiots trying to get attention.


Rosebud
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:00 pm

Wondering why incidents like the shooting in Binghamton, NY happen? Look no further than these rednecks! This is what racism and prejediuce do to our country.


Samsons
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:03 pm

THESE people are why we had to delay the DTV conversion.

But, if any of these clowns tried to join the national socialists in 30's Germany, they would have been rounded up and thrown in concentrations camps right quickly.

They have no idea what they are talking about and should kiss the rest of our asses for allowing them the freedom to be fear-based morons. God Bless 'em, but they are scarier than the nastiest lefty I've ever encountered.


Tony
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:18 pm

I believe it is in regard to Sarah Palin's comments regarding “Real America” and her many visits there..


Chris D.
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:18 pm

Hilarious! I've lived in KY and around the fringes of middle American militia country for years. These are definitely the wackiest of the wackos. I've been to gunshows and live-fire demonstrations. (I like shootin' a gun ever' now'n'en, myself.) Most are attended by the more gun-oriented, but still fully respectable members of society: cops, hunters, soldiers, veterans, evangelical preachers, home-school moms, etc. This kind of journalism is just designed to get big city liberals all worked up. These nutjobs couldn't mount a resistance to a local Boy Scout troop, much less Obama's “citizen army.” Most of them would die of cardiac arrest while digging out their gun emplacements. “Wolverines!” HAHAHAHAHA! Just remember: Back in the hills and hollers, gun collecting is just a substitute for Viagra.


Willis
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:21 pm

@ Chris D — You are so right!


Crassy
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:25 pm

You white people are crazy. Oh wait, I'm white.


Josh
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

Oak Grove, Minnesota is in the heart of redneck country. Yes, sadly, we have them up here, too.


Sproiiing
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

Not hardly… If you had *any* idea about the sheer amount of paperwork and fees and unbelievable legal hassles it takes to purchase and keep any class III firearm – 'full auto' or 'select fire' for the folks who know nothing about firearms – you wouldn't be worried too much at all about a bunch of legal gun owners. The costs are seriously high to play in that particular area. Now, you may think their politics are really stupid, especially the apparent Nazi lovefest items, or the boneheaded racist paraphernalia… But instead of demonizing these folks, why don't you try to understand where they are coming from? I don't agree with them, but they're people just like you and I. A lot of the Nazi trash is souvenirs that their dads and grand-dads got back in WWII. I have an Imperial Japanese flag signed by the men who captured it. I show it to anyone who understands what it is… Does that make me a supporter of the folks who brought us the Bataan death-march? The right wing-nuts do have their 'echo-chamber' sites, and this site is just as much an “echo-chamber” as one of theirs, even if it leans a different direction…


Hoyt Pollard
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:46 pm

And morans.


Ittakes altyps
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

I've been to this very Shoot a few times, an there are some real whack jobs there. But the majority of the people attending are average people, Not nazis or racist. I guess the writer just wanted to show that side of it.
Before you say it YES I'm a member of the NRA, I do believe I have the right to defend my myself, family. I'm also a law enforcement officer, an have seen the violance that comes from guns but for every gun toteing thug that shoots some one their are 10,000 responsible gun owners that didn't. O and these fanatics as you call us are everywere just watch the national News, HEADLINE 80year old grand mother shoots rapest to protect granddaughter, Church deacon shoots deranged gunman during services. It happens all the time. There are bad guys out there that wish to murder and terrorize but the responsible gun owner in America has a way to keep them in check and that goes for the troop we send to Washington,

The first Amendment gives you the rite to free speech,religion, the rites all men should have, the 2 Amendment is there to make sure nobody tries to screw with the first one.


tom
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:49 pm

you just voiced that you want our enemies to attack our own citizens. interesting.


tom
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:55 pm

i can't believe how anal retentive people are about spell checking, yet they give a free pass to the ones selling out our country.


WorkinJoe
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 12:58 pm

I wonder what these people thought of the Bush / Cheney assault on the Constitution–the secret spying, the power to snatch US citizens off the street and to hold them for years without charge or representation. That actually occurred. The Obama “gun ban” is all fantasy.


Steve
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:03 pm

Let's see if I have this straight…
Pot is illegal.
Tobacco, alcohol and firearms are legal.
Great plan.


Ittakes altyps
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:04 pm

That is one part of the assult on the Constitution, Its not just the Dems, or the Rep. its all of them its a power play. Its ppl wanting the Gov to do everyting for them, ” a Gov big enuff to give you everything you want is big enuff to take everything u have”


sbjules
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:12 pm

Is this one of Michelle Bachman's re-education camps?


Godless Liberal
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:13 pm

Rapest?

The pro-gun crowd would be a whole lot more convincing if it would learn how to spell.


merl
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

shooting those machine guns at cars sounds like fun if you could ignore the nuts


RipV
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:21 pm

ecause our “freedom” doesn't need to be defended in Iraq, Afghanistan, or any other country. Do you really believe what you hear on Fox news and CNN?


Sensible Moderate
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:25 pm

And you'd look like much less of a dope if you weren't sporting a Captain Planet icon. ;-) Just sayin'.


Sensible Moderate
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

My husband's a gun owner, a veteran and a police officer. He's defending your life and freedom every day and has every day since he joined the US military at seventeen years old when his mother signed the papers to let him go in. He's thin, smart and tough, and believes in our right to bear arms, carry concealed and otherwise.

For the rest of the hard-left: Not every gun owner's a nutter, a nazi or fat. Some of us are moderate-liberals, who believe in both gay marriage and gun ownership, and who certainly can spell. Just so ya know.


red cabbage
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:35 pm

In the past ten days there have been scores killed in premeditated gun violence across the U.S.. Please don't give us the “for every gun toteing thug” there are 10,000 “responsible” gun owners schtick. Those people were once part of the “responsible” statistic. You have psychological problems if you can't live life without a gun. Gun owner=ticking time bomb.

Sensible Moderate, please ring something substantive or go back to prep school.


L
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:45 pm

Shows how smart the idiot who wrote the blog on the website listed in your photo captions is. Many misspellings and word misuse. Not to mention that there is not much depth to this whole thing, is there? Can you spell “inbred rednecks”?


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 1:46 pm

I did photo essays like this once: I'd go to far-left anti-war protests and come back with photos of the wacky signs.

The difference is that I did that in 2002-2003; Weigel is doing it in 2009. Another difference is that I did that on my own and, unlike Weigel, I wasn't working for a Soros/Rockefeller-funded pseudo paper.

And, Weigel can't even rise to the abysmal depths of Max Blumenthal and get video.

Here's more on Dave Weigel, including a comment he doesn't want his readers to see.


Topics about Merchandise » Archive » Scenes From the Real America
Pingback posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:52 pm

[...] Insider Shopping Center put an intriguing blog post on Scenes From the Real AmericaHere’s a quick excerptSome of the better merchandise from the exhibit tens. This one says “Prepare for Obama’s Citizen Army (ACORN + Nation of Islam) [...]


Jason
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:05 pm

Could you give some examples of U.S. citizens snatched off of the street and held for years without charge or representation? That's something i've always been curious about. I've heard a lot of rumors, but never an actual example.


Tony
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:05 pm

You must have signed those petitions then eh?

=)


Bailey
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:12 pm

Wow. I am actually really offended by this. “Scenes from the Real America”? more like “Visions of Stupid Assholes.” Yes things like this happen in America, but things like this, hate and misunderstanding, happen everywhere in the world. If you think all Americans act and think like this, or even a good number of us, then you are really, really wrong.


Chelly
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:14 pm

You can live life without a gun. I choose to live longer with mine, thanks.


insight
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:25 pm

that's because the people snatched aren't around to tell their story…………………..


JIM
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:34 pm

AMERICANS have had to fight for freedom since we started this country. NOTE TO THINK ABOUT– THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT, BUT REAL LIVE PEOPLE WHO FIGHT FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN, PUT UP OR SHUT UP- I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WORLD AND THINK THAT PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES. IF I DIDN'T LIKE PEOPLE IN A CERTAIN COUNTRY, I SURE WOULD NOT EXPECT THEM TO TAKE CARE OF MY NEEDS AND THEN BLAME MY PROBLEMS ON THEM. GOOD DAY


crazy government cheez
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:34 pm

For the ones that fancy themselves as preparing for the 'race war' and other stupid ideologies:

If Marshall law were to ever be forced upon the American public. These people would probably be the first to be locked up or killed by the government. From a military standpoint it would make sense to get them out of the way first, even before sequestering the urban populations.

The funniest part about this is that these people actually think that they would stand a chance against the government military force with their outdated weapons. Plus they are easy targets because they've already created 'strongholds' away from the mainstream public. they'd just blow their asses away. And then ask “anybody else?”.

The only way that the people can overthrow the government is if ALL PEOPLE stood up together. And we all know that's not going to happen.

I'd guess that the majority of the American populace is happy within the matrix.


CRBernard
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:42 pm

The far left anti-war protesters were heavily armed and calling for violent insurrection, right? Because otherwise what you just wrote would qualify as a false equivalence, I think. Also, those left wingers were as welcoming of unreconstructed Stalinists as the militas are of neo-nazis, right? Because, again, otherwise “but THEY do it TOO!” is a pretty weak argument, when the degree of extremity and violence is quite different.


Momma Shark
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:43 pm

Thank GOD I live in Texas, where we have the highest rate of death row executions than in any other state in OUR union. We also have the highest percentage of CHL (concealed handgun licenses) per capita in OUR union. The real problem with OUR country is that we have too many ppl expecting OUR government to take care of them. Here in TEXAS we take care of OUR own. If the only true argument you have with the ppl that take care of YOU is that their grammar or spelling isn't up to your standards, I feel sorry for you. I just pray to GOD that some day you dont have to defend your family from attack from a rapist or drug crazed robber, because you wont have the means to defend yourself, and Im pretty sure your sarcastic wit wont deter them at all.


Dovesong
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:45 pm

Disgusting ROT of American society. Wish I could have gone and turned on all of them… oh, I forgot – I'm non-violent. Hate begets hate…
Oh well, I will pray for them and pray that the Justice Dept outlaws ALL semi-automatic weapons.

END GUN VIOLENCE and all guns in the USA now!


Anonymous
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:46 pm

David,

Owning a fully automatic weapon is both expensive and somewhat embarrassing. It is a lot of fun to shoot one, but the last time I did so my Uncle was paying for it. The Knob Creek shoot looks a little sad, people feeding their fears with the same stuff every year and an intermix of various persons who normally would not have anything to do with each other (the Militia types and the collectors don’t run in the same social circles usually but are often thrown together at gun shows and shoots.)

Unless they were from Kentucky, each one of those shooters had to fill out several federal forms, wait months until the ATF approved, and then spend a lot of money just to transport and shoot those weapons. I am sure that ATF was there either photographing or checking out each weapon. Kind of an ironic situation for any participant who wanted to be free of governmental control.

By the way, that is not a scimitar, it is a kukri (kukhri, kukhri, etc.) a knife usually associated with Nepal and Gurkha troops. And a rip-off at that price.


CRBernard
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:47 pm

Uh oh, just visited your link. You're a Birther, huh? Okay; good luck with that, and remember, keep the shiny side OUT on your tin foil hat, the One World Government mind-control rays are more effectively blocked that way.


Right Wing Rhetoric, Militias, Gun Nuts = Violence | Oliver Willis
Pingback posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:48 pm

[...] liberals are totally exaggerating about how the right stokes the fire of violence with their lies about the left. It’s just a [...]


April
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:49 pm

Sickening, just sickening! They are so filled with ignorance and hatred, yet they don't see to even realize it. However, I am not for Obama's values and it is not bad that they are against his values too. But, this Nazi supremacist stuff is sickeningly perverse. I'm a white woman but how can you claim superiority based upon race? Sure, each race has its own characteristics, strengths and even weaknesses. But, God is the Creator and called his creation good. He loves the whole world. And we should want to be like God because he is perfect love and is righteous. My son is bi-racial (white/Asian) and it inferiorates me to see people try to spread this doctrine of hatred. We're Christian, and I thank God that we know better than to be fanatical about race, and that our primary identity is found at the foot of the cross alone.


Long Dong
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:51 pm

Me want to be Real American too, but my English is very poor. Are application and petitions available in Vietnamese ? I can also bring some sweet rice cake for all to sample. I had previous militia/insurgent experience with the Vietcong.


LioninZion
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:52 pm

I'm a Jewish Gun owner…I think shooting those cars would be fun :) Minus some of the Nazi pricks. I am sure the majority of the guys are alright. I have seen just as bad on the left..


bookworm
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 2:53 pm

This is the obvious outcome of the lack of our current society's effectiveness in committing insane people, and instead letting them live on the streets, making do, living at large. Why? The Republicans want more members of their right wing, and the best way to do that is to keep insane people out of mental hospitals and on the streets instead, where they can join the NRA and GOP.


Concerned4Republicans
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:00 pm

Yes, the little cartoon so proudly taped to one mans gun shows a monkey with bullet holes, dead and the shooters say “Now we have to have someone else write our stimulus bill.” (paraphrasing)

You REPUBLICANS have empowered the NRA with your love-fest and look!! LOOK!
This is REPUBLICAN branded family-gathering, ala Palin “Moose Shooter” for president. It's all cute and “christian” and then look what you've created.
Anti-American “patriotic” americans who think God can't protect them, so they worship Idols and call them Protector.
I believe in God, he'll call me when it's my time, so God is my one and ONLY protector. Not some phallic idol.

Republicans are so confused, they BUY up shirts they consider an insult, saying “Hitler gave great speeches too” and “The 4th Reich, Obama-Biden”.
Then THEY ALL WALK around calling Hitler “Our Leader” and glorifying him.

Sick, perverted, demented, House of Demons, praying to idols as protectors, God nowhere in sight, Palin worshippers who think they are Right.
I don't know if you laugh or cry. Poor things. Honestly, poor kids, poor people.


VEIT VET 46
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:04 pm

Why aren’t these ” weekend warriors” in Iraq defending our freedom? Looks like every other Chickenhawk rally in America, land of the fat, home of the depraved.


Grayman
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:07 pm

Don't kid yourself. Nobody, well not many anyway are planning on going toe to toe with military forces. It will mostly be a guerilla resistance, which has proven itself to be very effective against major military forces. Remember America's Vietnam, Russia's Afghanistan, and our current wars. Resistance fighters will blend in to society and only take action on their terms. Look up the term “Gray Man”. Not to mention, if you had spent any time in the military, you would already know that it is significantly populated with personnel who have strong gang affiliations. This will also play a huge factor. Another thought in case you were wondering, gun control will also be as ineffective as the war on drugs.

While I do not support those with racial / hate agendas, I would and do support true patriots.


Chris
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:08 pm

Sure some of on the left are just as guilty as lumping groups together sometimes. I will go out on a limb and say that we “apologize” if you are as you say. We have no problem with the army(a well regulated militia, btw) and have varying degrees of opinions on guns. Most think its fair to regulate guns at least as much as we regulate Motor vehicles as they both require responsibility to handle.


HokieZ28
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:09 pm

Unfortunately for you we have this little thing called the Constitution and more specifically the 2nd Amendment. The only thing banning all semi-automatic weapons would accomplish would be to strip law abiding citizens of a means to defend our person, our family and our property. The only ones left armed will be the violent criminals that apparently don't give a damn about our existing gun laws. But somehow you believe they will give up their guns or not purchase them on the black market just because another gun law is passed?

Here's a more effective method of reducing crime and violence. Arm and properly train every law abiding citizen and get rid of all “gun free zones” or should I say “defenseless victim zones”.


Piepiepie
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:10 pm

which values in particular? and which that do not coincide with Bush and Cheney “values?”


April
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:11 pm

Dude, stop posing. Your comment is quite offensive. My son is white/vietnamese and I see the racist theme of your post and it victimizes a broad range of innocent people, even children (like my little boy). I would like to address your comment because it did bring up ONE interesting point (only one).

The interesting point is that some immigrants have been admitted to the United States after fighting against the United States in war. As a Southern Californian, I have even spoken to a person whom had fought against the United States in Vietnam and came here shortly after. And I have heard a missionary speak of two Talibani's who were given admission to the United States (although, one became Christian and the other gave up his old ways of hatred). But, the mere thought that our government is not adequately protecting us by knowing whom they're admitting is a definite breach to security. Although, I'm happy to see that those three above-mentioned people are now living decent lives.

But as for your comment about “Real American”… America is a nation of immigrants and one does not even have to speak English to be “Real American.” America has no national language. And hatred does not turn people around. Lovingly accepting people as they come is the best way to spread American values. My family decended from European immigrants from Spain, Scotland, Germany, Ireland and England. My father is a second generation immigrant. I don't see any un-Americanism in my grandmother or in my father. They are VERY American. My son decended from that same European heritage plus from Vietnam too. Is he un-American because he has brown hair, smooth and slightly tan skin, and beautiful Eurasian eyes? Are we un-American because we eat more ethnic food than American? Because one day we eat Tandoori chicken with Gulab Jamun (Indian food) and the next day we eat grilled pork w/ rice and fried eggrolls (Vietnamese), another day we have lengua (Spain) and another day we have stew (American).

We are 100% American, and we are fortunate to be so culturally rich. I get to enjoy what God enjoys… his people.

We are 100% American.


DRAFTKING2009
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:14 pm

Clearly the picture taker is pro-Republican. I find it interesting that someof these people compare Obama to a Fourth Reicht. I guess they forget the Third Reichts extermination of Black idealism. You have white supremists wanna be Nazis clearly embraced at the same place where people act to condemn Nazi's
Many of these people have turned their love of this nation into hatred of this nations current poltical setup.
How does hate give us so much hypocrisy?


jennie
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:16 pm

I vomit. This compilation should be a serious wake up call to Americans, if only they were not so stupid


Al Ebaster
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:17 pm

“The Real America”? Seriously? If you spent any meaningful time in “real America” you'd find decent people who take pride in their communities, their families, and their work, who are no doubt more noble and respectable than either the photographer or the photographed in this piece.


LibertyHiller
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:20 pm

Why would a German MG42 be firing a .308 round?


Long Dong
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:21 pm

I was just trying to sacrastically antagonize those supremacist morons, but I might have gone too far. I totally agreed with you and very proud of our rich cultural diversity. I sincerely apologize for offending you or any other reader.


alanmarv
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:22 pm

I don't understand this debate. The Supreme Court has ruled that an individual has a right to own a handgun and keep it in his/her home in the District of Columbia (I wonder how many of you have actually read the decision and the dissent). Since DC is a federal enclave, all we know is the Federal Government cannot prevent handgun ownership in one's home. It is not clear if this decision or the Second Amendment is applicable to the States (The issue is called “incorporation”. Since the Constitution was a limit on Federal Power – “Congress shall pass no law” – the question is whether the first 10 Amendments are “incorporated” into the 14th Amendment which is a limitation on State action. I could spend more time on it, but you would do better to look it up.) So we know there is a right to “bear arms”. The question is WHICH arms and where can they be kept. If you read the Supreme Court opinion, (which is really quite vacuous), you will see that Justice Scalia stated that “reasonable” gun control laws were permitted under the Constituion. He specifically mentioned control over automatic weapons. The right to bear arms as defined by Scalia limite that right to guns of the type ordinarily kept by citizens, whatever that meant.

Now we can all agree (even the Supreme Court) that the Second Amendment does not prohibit a law preventing an individual from owning a nuclear weapon, or a tank, or a fighter jet. So, does the Constituion protect the “right” of an individual to own armor piercing bullets? Does it protect the right to own an AK 47? A reasonable argument can be made that ownership of these types of weapons create too much of a risk to police and law enforcement so those weapons cannot be owned by individuals. Also remember, even the First Amendment is limited by time, place and content rules and regulations, so can't the Second Amendment permit a law that says it is illegal to have a gun within 1000 feet of a school or that has a limited muzzle speed?

So, for you NRAers out there, your time has past. YOU HAVE WON! You have a right to bear arms! But look at the weapons at this show and tell me why the Government can't reasonably restrict ownership of weapons of mass destruction. Tell me where in the Second Amendment there is a right to own an Uzi.


MeMyself&I
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:25 pm

People such as you “Godless Liberal” are clearly the “type” to whine at the most ignorant things (ie; spelling) and only weaken our Great Nation. Go find something to do that you MAY be good at. Otherwise, have something more intelligent to say next time. :o)


April
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:25 pm

I found your apologize sincere and heartfelt. I appreciate the recognition and sincerety. I also see that you're concerned with the direction America is going. And that, I also can relate too.


oldleft
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:29 pm

I am deeply disturbed that you are a law enforcement officer who can't even spell rights.


Pancho Villa
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:34 pm

Great!! That is where all our narco-thugs get their stuff and training!
Mexico should accuse the U.S for promoting terrorism and running training camps for known terrorists. Maybe better still, declare a new war.Germany once wanted to help Mexico, remember? There are still some old Nazis over there wishing for a second round.


cubbie
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:36 pm

Maybe they do embrace them.


Chuck
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:39 pm

THIS IS ARE CUNTRY.


April
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:40 pm

Your comment is as perverted as their doctrine.


Neilist
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:42 pm

I think the pre-WWI machine gun is a Vickers, rather than a “maxim” (i.e., a Maxim), but it's hard to tell.


Neilist
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:44 pm

The basic MG42 was rechambered, after WWII, to a number of different cartridges. The later versions were chambered for .308, i.e., 7.62 NATO.


....bobby
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:47 pm

its this kind of shit that has our country in the shape it is in it aint about army weapons…….when they wrote the Constitution'…. they had NO KNOWLEDGE OF THIS GUNS, was talking about gun to kill you some food …………………….its these IDIOTS that have got it all SCREWED up all these sons of bitches need to grow up and get out of their GUN GANG THAT THEY THINK THEY NEED ……………………if they scared , ' TELL THEM TO CALL THE POLICE , THATS WHY WE HAVE THEM “


Neilist
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:47 pm

The “Real Americans” down in Orange County, California — i.e., the Vietnamese who risked everything to get to this country — would find that comment really funny.

They'd laugh and laugh . . . after they machine-gunned your ass off.

Just saying, “Long Dong.”


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:48 pm

The Nazi materials are for collectors, even I realize that. These photos and their captions distort the truth for sensationalism, so punks like ya'll can go around spouting off about the evils of conservatives and republicans. And I don't know anyone in their right mind who would pay $120 for 75 rounds of 7.62 ammunition. Get a life and realize that there are many differant cultures in America. If these people want to have fun shooting guns, so be it. If you're surprised by this sort of thing then you clearly don't live in the same area as these people, so you shouldn't care. You know what is disgusting? Your judgemental views, you telling others how they should live. America is more than just the east and west coast. Try to understand rather than criticise. Where have all of the morerates gone? You people who believe this stuff are all unquestioning pseudo intellectual pawns of the media. PEOPE LIKE YOU ARE THE REASON WHY THIS COUNTRY IS DIVIDED.


RB
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:49 pm

I'll bet the IQ of these paranoid goobers doesn't exceed the total number of their natural teeth.

What a pathetic bunch of losers.


April
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:52 pm

I meant it is as perverted as the doctrine of supremacy.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:58 pm

People like you don't realize if it wasn't a gun it would be a knife, or a dried samon.


poopsybythebay
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:58 pm

I'm sorry–I'm a former Republican and I live in Alabama. Trust me when I tell you this–there is no way in hell ANYONE on the left is as crazy as the people on the right. I have lived in both camps. The camp on the left is a world of reality. The camp on the right is a world of hating reality. I can tell you one thing, I will never go back.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:59 pm

Most people don't worry to much about it. It's not like some little comment they write down defines them. But aparently you do, which is interesting.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 3:59 pm

Thank you for implicitly acknowledging that you have no counter-argument to the facts presented at the link I provided.


mary
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:01 pm

thank God we still live in a free country where the Liberals and tree huggers have not yet gotten our rights away from us!


Bigots Watch FOX
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:02 pm

White trash and their toys…


DoFlo
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:08 pm

So I want to know, how is it that so many European countries which have outlawed guns for the average citizens have vastly lower gun crime rates? Shouldn't those laws have only left guns in the hands of criminals? Without all those civilains packing heat, shouldn't the law-breaking thugs have risen up and gone on an endless bloody rampage?
And, by extension, shouldn't the United States, which does have this 2nd Amendment, and the highest gun-ownership rate of any developed nation be much, much safer than them?
Cuz it ain't.
Guns are for killing people, all people, not just the bad guys, not just the boogey-men haunting your brain, and the US is the undisputed leader in gun violence in the Western World.
Hey, look! We're still leading the world at something.
Yay us.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:08 pm

First you want to take away their guns, the commit them. Then start burning Bukowski, Kerouac……..I'm sorry I just got bored thinking about your statement.


Where's PAlin?
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:08 pm

These are the same crowd that marry their cousins and molest their neighbors kids….Small gene pool!


spoiled
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:09 pm

I am all for my constitutional right to own a gun. I hope I never HAVE to use it. I also hope that people who idealize mass murder, bigotry and hate through lack of intelligence, education or just good old fashioned sanity, die out like the dinosaurs.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:10 pm

So ya'll have alot in common then.


Jon H
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:10 pm

“The Nazi materials are for collectors, even I realize that”

You think that's a gen-u-wine 1944-issue Wehrmacht mousepad?

Jackass. They're on sale for people who idolize the biggest fucking losers of the 21st century.


The ‘Real America’ is Scary « No More Absolutes
Pingback posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:12 pm

[...] April 6, 2009 · No Comments From the Washington Independent. [...]


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:14 pm

It doesn't have to be genuine. It's called a repoduction. Understand. Your so silly.


shawnamabrey
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:16 pm

It is very sad tha gun rights advocates so frequently associate themselves with neoconservative jacka$ses who probably like rush limbaugh and think building a wall will help our national security.


shawnamabrey
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:18 pm

“the camp on the left is a world of reality”.

You clearly haven't been in the camp on the left long enough, but keep going.

And, by the way, for those of us who think freely, there is always the independent non-camp.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:29 pm

What? Are you serious? hahaha. And you say they are crazy. Go chew on some ritalin.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:34 pm

Then we can get rid of that pesky first amendment, freedom of speech. Because honestly, people need responsible people like you to tell them what to think and speak. cheers


alanmarv
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

Still waiting for where in the Constitution there is a right to own armor piercing bullets or an Uzi.

And, I am wondering how proud you folks are that scared this guy in Minnesota that he was going to “lose” his guns so he had to go kill 13 people. Good job. People kill people right. Well he was one of your people.


Claudia
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:38 pm

Those who comment on this blog are only bums that cannot comment intelligently on other blogs. They look cheap, vulgar, 6-pack adorers and probably on drug 24/24. Unfortunately, there are too many of these guys in the US.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:39 pm

Statistical distortion due to population size. Want to see something real interesting though. Look at the statistics for sexual abuse against children in Europe. And then ask yourself if you should give Europe the moral high ground.


Love not Guns
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:40 pm

hug your gun and us all a favor


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:41 pm

as far as I know, this country still has a few rights guaranteed to individuals…among them free speech and the right to bear arms. That said, I must ask, if you do not like or agree with what is pictured here…DON'T LOOK! that simple. Meantime I have all the liberal crap I can STAND shoved down my throat EVERYDAY by every means the propaganda machine that masquerades as the “PRESS” can devise. As I said, if you don't like it…flip the page. People HAVE A RIGHT to associate with whom they please and think what they want.
I do NOT like Nazis, I do not advocate what they represent, but I must say, they have as much right to express themselves as the Reverend Wright or Louis Farakkan . If you folks out there weren't so PROPAGANDAIZED you would realize that.
Now as to intellect, I would venture to guess that most folks who “bear arms” are vastly superior to those who live in fear of them possessing them, otherwise they would be hard pressed not to put an immediate end to those who oppose them. THEY are armed, are you? They (gun owners) are far more in control than the majority of folks. Ever notice how the mass murders and “snipers” always seem to be buying their weapons just prior to their crimes. I WAS a liberal idiot that bought the “line” til I grew up and learned the difference between Sh*t and Shinola…
Incidentally, I own a number of guns which I would NOT be afraid to use should the occasion arise, I have an IQ of 148. I did not marry or have children by any of my relatives, don't have brown teeth, and I both my kids and my husband all graduated college.
You idiots that rave about bigotry…just what do you think you are??? YOU are BIGOTS…But you are STUPID ones…


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:41 pm

“Not to mention, if you had spent any time in the military, you would already know that it is significantly populated with personnel who have strong gang affiliations.”

I was in the military and man you must be high.


Love not Guns
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:42 pm

so you own reproduced paraphaneilia from the most demonic leadership of our age…good for you! again…go play Russion roulette


Love not Guns
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:45 pm

great an IQ of 148 and you own guns…I guess that means you can really put a good killing spree together. guns arent the answer my friend, but they are a problem


Love not Guns
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:47 pm

now im worried…the anger you have is more of a problem than the guns you own


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:50 pm

Nazi's arn't my thing, being jewish and all. But I do understand the fascination some people have with the Nazi's. If you have ever been to a museum then you can understand the lure of the exotic. As per russian roulette, I got tired of that ages ago. Why don't you go and try to lord over someone else loser.


Rob
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:53 pm

midwestmaven,

As far as I know… (sentences start with a capital letter)

“I must ask” is generally followed by a question.

Why do you listen to the “PRESS” if you think they are biased?

As I wrote or stated, not as I said. You aren't speaking.

Ellipses are not the same as a comma. As I stated, if you don't like it, flip the page.

Propagandiazed is not a word, and propaganda is not a verb.

Now as to intellect, please try and write a coherent sentence. This one is an abortion.

Is there some relevance to your statement that mass murderers buy their guns just prior to their crimes? Some evidence, please? I can think of several recent mass murders that were perpetrated by gun nuts (collectors).

“I both my kids and my husband all graduated college.”

Why are “we” stupid. Offer a rational argument.

Your IQ is 148 just like your weight is.


These Are Not the Droids I Was Looking For . . . | Lean Left
Pingback posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:56 pm

[...] Machine Gun Shoot – rightly identified as the wingers’ “real America” in this Washington Independent story – that I had in [...]


Drew in L.A.
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 4:59 pm

I was an enthusiastic supporter of Obama. Now that he's president ive reverted to observer. He hasnt been in office long enough for us to decide if he's the best or worst of our government officials. Its funny how some of these people support Hitler and others depict obama as a monster like Hitler. As far as guns go. I love em. then again no one close to me has had there lives torn apart by them. They fascinate me and if everyone could potentially have a gun i think we'd have to get along a little better, politeness and respect would become a survival skill. Ive seen that much work first hand when i lived in florida for a time. Independent = the ALL american pollitical party.


Lavaman
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:03 pm

Mr. Poplawski was not a law-abiding citizen. He had been dishonorably discharge which legally precludes him from firearm possesion. NOT one of “ours”.


Steve Gaichin
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:04 pm

I guess everybody is entitled to their opinion. This is a free country as yet. . Personally I don't think ” BO” is /or can take any more of our rights than George Bush did . Also I think he is too smart to try to “Ban” guns , or ammo


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:05 pm

You just commented on here. I hope that was a clever joke?


Real Talk Xpress » Blog Archive » “Real America” Hates President Obama-Shocking Pics
Pingback posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:11 pm

[...] are some pictures taken by the Washington Independent’s Dave Weigel, who went to the bi-annual Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot in Kentucky. As you can see the Obama [...]


Steve Gaichin
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:11 pm

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, the 2nd part of the 2nd Amendment!! It states quite plainly that the right to bear arms and to protect ourselves from an oppressive government!


Remainders: Ankara
Pingback posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:13 pm

[...] Nothing like a gun shoot to bring out the birthers. [...]


Mike
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:16 pm

Ever notice how fat these people are?


Bouchard2008
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:18 pm

Hmm, lets see…no..can't see your sorry logic.

Its not in the Constitution so we don't have a right to it? Please get your GED or something. Don't sleep through civics and/or American History this time.

But…following your 'logic' you don't have the right in the Consitution to post on the internet. And it did'nt say anything about you having any right to take out that car note or house note did it? Best if the Government takes it away to save you from yourself.

After all, only those who the people willingly give power too can be enlightened enough to direct our lives and without guns, we have no power to ever question them. But then, why would we?


Love not Guns
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:20 pm

I feel sorry for people who need guns to feel safe…whether a gangbanger in a city overun by crime and fear or out in the hills where your proud to be a redneck. Its all the same. Its not the guns that are the problem its the ideology and values these people demonstrate that you need guns to be safe…its embarrassing, and the reason why most people laugh at the people in this article. At one time people considered it a right to own a slave…hopefully at some point in time we can look back on the people who own guns for the wrong reasons with the same disdain for this kind of cuplable behavior.


April
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:21 pm

ABORTION. It is the genocide of the most innocent of creation. Babies have beating hearts and brainwaves at only 4 weeks which is when most when just find out that they are pregnant. It is a barbaric, murderous practice to kill these precious babies. A baby is not a choice but a human being. The choice is to raise your child or give your child to someone who can raise him/her (adoption), but not killing.

God radically changed my life when I became pregnant with my son as an unwed, young single mother. I went through a major crisis and deeply considered abortion because I just wanted everything to ‘go away.’ I was so distraught I couldn’t quite grasp what I would have done. That my son, Noah, was a tiny, innocent baby with brain waves and a beating heart in my womb. That God was causing him to grow and design his every feature. And that he would be what would cause a wonderful change in my life! God really got ahold of my heart and caused me to have a 180 degree change in direction. I really thank God for my son. He’s such a joy and is what brought me into a close relation with Jesus, which is where true joy originates.

Those who kill their own child to make their crisis go away actually refuse God’s calling and gift. They reject a chance to change they’re ways and commit plain murder of the most innocent. It’s as tragic as it gets. They could have joy but they choose death for their child instead.


April
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:21 pm

ABORTION. It is the genocide of the most innocent of creation. Babies have beating hearts and brainwaves at only 4 weeks which is when most when just find out that they are pregnant. It is a barbaric, murderous practice to kill these precious babies. A baby is not a choice but a human being. The choice is to raise your child or give your child to someone who can raise him/her (adoption), but not killing.

God radically changed my life when I became pregnant with my son as an unwed, young single mother. I went through a major crisis and deeply considered abortion because I just wanted everything to ‘go away.’ I was so distraught I couldn’t quite grasp what I would have done. That my son, Noah, was a tiny, innocent baby with brain waves and a beating heart in my womb. That God was causing him to grow and design his every feature. And that he would be what would cause a wonderful change in my life! God really got ahold of my heart and caused me to have a 180 degree change in direction. I really thank God for my son. He’s such a joy and is what brought me into a close relation with Jesus, which is where true joy originates.

Those who kill their own child to make their crisis go away actually refuse God’s calling and gift. They reject a chance to change they’re ways and commit plain murder of the most innocent. It’s as tragic as it gets. They could have joy but they choose death for their child instead.


NRA is only about money
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:25 pm

I don't think the “right to bear arms” foresaw guns that shoot 100 rounds a second….I'm all about 2nd amendment, but my neighbor doesn't need to own a gun that can shoot through his walls and mine, killing one of my family members if he so decides.


Love not Guns
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:25 pm

let me guess…you drive a red pickup, chew skol and pay at least one child support payment?


Bouchard2008
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:31 pm

I feel sorry for people who rely on denial and 'Hope' to secure their families and loved ones. There are precious few arguments that any gun control enthusiast can make that can't be applied to cars or knives, yet through denial and a abit of arrogance as to their personal intellectual superiority, they will make them and say no one should beable to defend themselves, because no one should HAVE to defend themselves from other humans. Sad sad ideology.

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. “–John Stewart Mill–


Austin Avery
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:37 pm

And “Forth Reich: Obama Biden” does not strike you as judgmental?


8vPete
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:38 pm

Er, excuse me, racists in general.


Matt
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:38 pm

How many Jews have Rev. Wright and Farrakhan (not Farakkan, you dolt) murdered? If you see any equivalence between the Nazi party and the Trinity United Church of Christ then you're an idiot, regardless of how high you claim your IQ to be.


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:43 pm

people really need to stop being insecure pussys, OH GOSH THAT GUY HAS A GUN I BETTER BUY ONE TO PROTECT MY FAMILY. other person sees that person with a gun, OH MY GOSH THAT PERSON HAS A GUN I BETTER GET A GUN TO PROTECT MYSELF!!
so much doubt and fear of people.

good thing we got all these groups of scared people with guns. no one is protecting anyone. you are all waging war against eachother

immature hooligans, watch when the revolution comes and they are stuck in hellish conditions because they power is at the end of a gun.

guns only bring the power to kill not to protect.

mabye we should round up all these warmongers, constuct a HUGE wall around a war ridden country and throw them all in and say good luck! then let them shoot at eachother as much as they want.
then put in cameras around the whole place and charge 10 $ an hour to watch.

=D
there should also be a tv show that highlights ones with skill and let them compete against eachother….. we could call it the RUNNING MAN!!!!

bwahahahaha


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:44 pm

that sounds like how it goes in iraq or somalia, actually there are far too many places like that


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:52 pm

The need for proper grammar on the Internet is great but the need for individuals that hold themselves above others because of their grasp of knowledge is not.

If you are here to discuss politics then talk about politics. Do not put down a opinion because it is simply not stuctured properly. Then you dare to set yourself as better?!
you are ignorant and very prideful
STFU


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:55 pm

asking for the end of rascism is a awful great request, people need to stop living in fear and need to stop being so insecure about themselves. if fear, insecurity and just doubt in general are discarded our society would have no problems that couldnt be handled reasonably


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:56 pm

they will! the year will be around 2012


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:57 pm

shouldnt you be watching spike tv or something?


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

thank god that we have made people who hear god as crazy people and lock them up.

dont thank god thank insecure people.


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

LOL


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:01 pm

Dave, is that you? I ask because you have no clue about the argument I was making. I wasn’t comparing the far-left loons at the anti-war protests to the people pictured in this post. I was pointing out that Weigel’s idea of journalism isn’t to pick the low-hanging fruit but to pick up rotten fruit that’s on the ground. He’s engaging in the easiest type of hackwork possible.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:01 pm

Dave, is that you? I ask because you have no clue about the argument I was making. I wasn’t comparing the far-left loons at the anti-war protests to the people pictured in this post. I was pointing out that Weigel’s idea of journalism isn’t to pick the low-hanging fruit but to pick up rotten fruit that’s on the ground. He’s engaging in the easiest type of hackwork possible.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:03 pm

Now if those people were carrying they would still be alive. Harsh but true.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:03 pm

Now if those people were carrying they would still be alive. Harsh but true.


alanmarv
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:03 pm

That's the best you can do? Call me names? Question my intelligence? I hate to tell you but I have published on Constitutional issues. Did you read the case? Do you know its name? Have you ever heard about the incorporation doctrine? Do you know that Justices like Scalia have a real problem with incorporation of the first 10 amendments into the 14th so that the Second Amendment might NOT apply to the states? But they haven't been very intellectually honest on most issues so we shouldn't expect it now.

And, what are you talking about? A “car note or house note”? I have the right to post on the internet because of the First Amendment and it has been interpreted over the last 200 years to define that right including limitations on freedom of speech ( I don't have the right to libel someone or steal copyright material). That is what needs to be done with the Second Amendment now. And, the question will be whether the restrictions imposed by government are reasonable or not (I won't go into what standard should apply here, rational basis or strict scrutiny – I think it should be the former). My point is that a State or municipality can make a rational and reasonable, even a compelling decision that prohibiting ownership of automatic weapons promotes the State's interest and this law would pass muster under the Second Amendment. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you believe the Second Amendment allow you to own a tank. As a matter of interest, how many people on this comment page believe that you have the right to own a Tank?

You see, this is a State's rights issue. Each state and municipality will have to decide what gun restrictions are reasonable for it. New York might have different restrictions than Colorado and that is okay. Cities might have different rules than rural areas. I thought you guys liked states' rights.


Jerromy
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:05 pm

Yeah, someone shooting through the walls now and then is better than other countries invading, shooting through everyone's walls, don't you think? A handgun that shoots one shot at a time still kills, but not by the thousands. Most people in the US that own guns of mass-annihilation own them for defense, and they would defend all of you as well, so be thankful you had a home to be shot in if it were to happen.


nunya
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:06 pm

no, but i notice how homosexual you are


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:07 pm

Being a Muslim isn't a race. White people are Muslim. Black people are Muslim. I understand what you're saying but doy.


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:09 pm

I think it shows how weak they really are. It's different if you're a cop or some other agent of law enforcement of course but your average citizen should be more thoughtful and resourceful on protecting yourself etc especially now with a lot of technology and education opportunities etc.


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:12 pm

It cracks me up how these type of people get their panties in a twist about it and guess what? It never happens! George Bush did try to take people's guns after Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans however. I bet a bunch of them still support him.


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:13 pm

I find it hilarious that you think liberals and other leftwingers don't own guns. Hey guess what: leftwingers like guns too. Doy. The AK-47 is a Commie gun.


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:14 pm

people dont buy those sort of guns for defense but for their egos. they cant wait for war to come or for someone to try to break into their house so they can cut them in half with lead.

americans are just as violent as any other radical group. the government knows this so they make people examples to keep the people calm. With the examples of cruelty by the government we only breed more of these warmongers.

if you think the revolution isnt comming you are wrong,
if you look forward to it so that you can shoot people , may god help you.
then there are others that want the revolution to come so that all these disgusting people are wiped clear of the earth. that is also wrong

we now reason peace with either locking people away, killing them, or by ignoring them.

if these mindsets continue there is no hope for our children. the only way is to make peace with peace and love. that is the only way to end the cycle of violence


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:14 pm

Its easier for you to believe I'm someone like that, isn't it. But no, I have no child or red pickup. And I prefer books over tv. What I do have is the knowledge that your a sad person who has no tolerance for anything you can't comprehend. But hey you can basically make me out to be anything you want, right. These are just letters after all. Keep it up kiddo and nobody will ever take you seriously.


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:15 pm

He was a total rightwing Glenn Beck loving fool who was even a failed rightwing “talk show” wannabe. He was one of you no matter what if you are a rightwinger. He was a Neo-Nazi freak who was a Stormfronter.


Judd
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:16 pm

Unless your neighbor is quite wealthy he does not have one. My friends that own machine guns have 20k-100k in the hobby. They also can afford to spend a few hundred dollars in an hour at the range. A decent Full Auto M-16 will run you almost 20k alone.


Emily
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:17 pm

We don't need pictures to show us how stupid and evil conservatives are. This country is divided? Really? What polls have you seen lately? Last polls I've seen only like maybe 20% don't like where Obama is going. That's not divided hon. Oh and I just find it all sad and kinda funny.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:18 pm

Why would they help you now? Pathetic.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:18 pm

Why would they help you now? Pathetic.


Judd
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:19 pm

Shooting machine guns is a hobby like anything else. This is a hobby for the wealthy. It is like buying a race car except guns go UP in value.


Murphypaws
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:25 pm

I have a very capable and dedicated militia to protect me – Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and National Guard. Don't need a bunch of scared, wussy nuts running round playing GI Joe taking over the job of the armed forces of the United States. And, I don't need anyone telling me who my enemy is – I already know!!!


Bouchard2008
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:26 pm

First off, I have no clue on who 'you guys' entails, so I will have to throw that one to you.

As far as states rights, absolutely. If California wants to ban 'Any miserable scum of law-abiding citizen from owning/manufacturing/talkingabout a sharpened stick' then so be it. The people have a choice of where they live and whether that is acceptable for a government. I'm personaly as fine with that as I am with the 'Castle Laws' of my state. The question is ultimately a Federal one as nothing stays at the State level any more. Especialy with a huge house dominated by certain states who have developed a very different idea of where a Government derives its power and why it exists(and a lot of money on the issue of more Government power).

To question our 'founding fathers' intent with the second amendment with 'they could have never imagined yadayadayada' would still require willful ignorance of our countries founding and the fact that the 'Rebel' citizen in the colonies was in fact better armed than the standing armies of the British empire (and their old Brown Bess rifles) sent to quell and disarm 'the rebellion'. Why would they not restrict the citizens to old, less than military grade weapons? Because they KNEW Governments of men where corruptable and that the people MUST reserve not only the right but the POWER to rule themselves whenever they see fit.

That being said, people get hurt by guns…not as many as by cars or powertools, but they do. But inherent to that 'rational basis' is the idea that at some leve we MUST assume the risk of CHOICE and FREE WILL. With power and freedom come responsibility and some people will not always chose the 'right' thing. Does that mean NO ONE deserves the power? State issue yes, but one that is CONSTANTLY trying to be forced into the national relm. As such requires no small amount of vigiliance as the motives of the 'guns are ba-a-a-a-d' crowd are questionable. I have only met a couple who I beleive actualy held their beliefs out of pacifism and not a irrational fear or unwillingness to express their desire to control others without meaningful resistance.


doug
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:28 pm

The Obama and Bush families both have links to the Nazis. Obama's grandfather fought them and Bush's grandfather financed them.


Love not Guns
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:38 pm

your name says it all you…hope you shoot yourself


Love not Guns
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:38 pm

your name says it all you…hope you shoot yourself


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:40 pm

doug does that information have any real relevance? you act like as if people do not have the ability to change sides.we finance the wars around the globe and even sell to the ones we are supposed to be fighting. that would make everyone in the world a terrorist ( which I dont really disagree with). political partys win over votes by promising laws that dont have relevance to their cause and may be opposite of their partys beliefs, and then they dont even act upon them.
there is no right or wrong in politics, only the one with more power and can generate the most funds will be just.


Bouchard2008
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:43 pm

There you go, deny your responsiblity to protect yourself and your loved ones away. Cops are always right…they are always there…but wait…the Supreme Court says is not their job to protect you! (Try looking/wiki Warren v District of Columbia) oh noes! 'Hope' the big bad wolf does'nt come.


Justin
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:46 pm

why all the pain and arguments. the only real leader with REAL SOLUTIONS is the dictator and he is here among us. He makes Obama look like an angel. Why hasn't anyone mentioned him yet?

look and see his agenda with his plans and goals set out in this outrageous “movie”, then you will gasp:

http://www.dictatormovie.com


Matt
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:46 pm

I kinda feel sorry for people who are so convinced that the world is “dangerous” and out to get them that they think the greatest danger they or their loved ones face can be aleviated with weapons.

Lets think now: I have had four great-grandparents who died of CANCER, two who died of a stroke, one who died of alzheimer's, another of a heart attack. I had a young cousin who died in a car accident, a great aunt who died of emphysema. An uncle died young of hepatitis and liver failure.

Where in there does a violent intruder fit in? NOWHERE. I live in the suburbs and work in the inner city, and never have I seen or been threatened with a gun. If prolonging my life or safety is an issue, I get much more value putting on sunscreen than I do buying a weapon.

I'm neither particularly for gun control nor particularly against it, though I am very liberal. I guess if it came down to the line I would favor it. To me being passionate either way is a sign of crazyness.

But sorry, I like things like facts, and reason, and common sense, and that's what I use to make my way through life – not fear and paranoia and the beleif that someone out there is going to get me. There's a 0.02 percent chance I'll ever be shot or have someone shoot at me in my life. There's a 4 percent chance I'll be in a serious car accident. There's a 35 percent chance I'll get cancer. So when it comes to what's the biggest “threat” in the world, sorry, it isn't anything that owning a firearm is going to help me with.


Bonniej Harris
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

Thank you for reminding me of why I do not want to read the comment section of news stories! There is more hate, bias, bigotry, insensitivity, downright meaness, prejudice and arrogance in a dozen of these comments than in all the pictures above and by the way, so much of what I have read that is ugly is by the intellectual liberals! Why is that? Perhaps ya'll might want to read what you have written before submitting it. Odd isn't it that someone who accuses one person of being a racist because they don't like obama, thinks nothing of insulting that “racist” by calling them fat, stupid and that they hope the “racist” will die! So, is that what solves our problems in this world? Sad, isn't it? By the way, when anyone incites hatred such as Rev. Wright and Farankan , they are inciting others to kill. Many of the jews in Isreal are doing to the Palestinans what was done to them and so the killing goes on! Perhaps, if, we can talk with each other and listen to where each other is coming from, really listen? If, we can look beyond surface? If, we refrain from insults? If, we drop our ego at the door and try to walk in other's shoes? If, we did not isolate people by calling them, “white trash”, “red-necks”, “fat, stupid, illerate, inbreeders? Hmm, wonder if we might learn to live with each other with genuine, love and tolerance?


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:52 pm

So according to you it is okay for law enforcement to have firearms, but citizens should be more responsible. Ridiculious, like your logic. People are people are people. Look at our not to distant past and see what some law enforcement officals have done.


Matt
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:52 pm

When being a culturally-identified Muslim who is an anti-cleric athiest still garners you all the hatred and distain from Right-Wingers that anti-American militants get, that distain becomes atheism.

Anti-muslim bigotry has nothing to do with what Muslims actually beleive, it's hatred against the word and the idea. For that reason it's exactly the same as anti-Semitism. In WWII, secular nonpracticing Jews were sent to the concentration camps too – just as nonpracticing Muslims (which nearly a third of the people in the Middle East are) are seen no differently than terrorists. I think it's perfectly fittign to refer to it as racism.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 6:59 pm

Do you even know what your talking about half the time? I don't think you do because you wouldn't be posting this garbage if you did. Russian communism created a totalitarian state, far far differant than what American socialist value. Go back to school little girl.


tonysudin
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:01 pm

you guys are cool……killing each other to settle score……..remind me of the cowboy movies……
be more reasonable with life…….its not about thrill of killing……weapon are made to protect………not to attack


Beatnik
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:02 am

Well I hope you realize how hurtful that comment is. Just kidding. Your are just showing your true colors. Come on baby, you can get at least a little more juvenile.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:02 am

Well I hope you realize how hurtful that comment is. Just kidding. Your are just showing your true colors. Come on baby, you can get at least a little more juvenile.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:05 pm

I don't understand it myself, but it sure is fun to piss them off.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:08 pm

So, you smell funny.


Core Ireland
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:10 pm

What is absolutely pathetic is that most of the same people who want to denegrate the people in this article or those that choose to own a gun do so by making some form of moral superiority claims. All of this high and mighty superiority comming from the same people who promote aborting their own children because it inconveniences their lifestyle. If you choose your cell phone over your own flesh and blood, or in any other way sanction those who do so, look in the mirror before you start commenting on others who you feel superior to. The modern liberal ideology is a flawed collection of strange opinions that do not match their suposed core beliefs. A liberal should support the right to bear arms, as it is the back-up to freedom of speech that guarantees the people a chance to stand up to government oppression. The founding father's didn't put it in so people could arm themselves against the British or other foreigners, but so that we could stand up to our own goverment if necessary. Thomas Jefferson gave the people a way to “stand up to the man” and the liberals in power constantly seek to take it away. How many registered gun owner commit crimes with their firearms? What other reason do these politicians have to go after citizens for practicing thier rights set forth in the constitution? Power over the people, an agenda that can only be put into place by indocrinating our citizens through their control of the media and much of our education system, teaching our young people a way of thinking that actually contradicts itself, because parts of it help thier cause and parts don't.


alanmarv
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:20 pm

Bouchard, you got the Warren opinion. Great. I really didn't understand your reply to me, but it seemed more reasoned so that is good.

I see above you quote Mills. I think though you are missing the point. I am not “anti-war”. There are things worth fighting for. The war in Afghanistan was legitimate and completely supportable under International Law and U.S. Policy. World War II was completely justified, as was the Korean conflict. Vietnam, a lot more iffy. The vast majority of Obama supporters agree with this and support the President in his plan to prosecute the Afghan war the way it should have been. The Iraq war was different. It was the U.S.'s first war of choice. Note, Roosevelt did not enter WWII until the U.S. was attacked by Japan. We declared war on Japan, but the Germans declared war on us first on December 8. Roosevelt didn't ask for a war resolution on Germany on December 7 because Germany was not an eminent threat to the United States (I can assure you that given my personal history I wish Roosevelt wouldn't have waited until 1941). The Bush Doctrine (that Sarah Palin didn't know) was that the U.S. could strike first and cause regime change in a country even if there was no “eminent” threat to the U.S. Even if Iraq had WMD, how could they deliver it when we had no fly zones in the north and south and they didn't have ballistic missles? Bush/Cheney said the U.S. could act if there was merely a “gathering” threat. That's what scared the hell out of the rest of the world. Under that standard, who is next?

There is one line in your quote I would like you to think about – “nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” Many of the arguments here have been that individuals need guns to protect themselves. Not their neighbors. Their neighbors are the “enemy”. Those people arguing for unrestricted gun ownership are prepared to let the greater society (their neighbors) suffer the scourge of gun violence so that THEY can be protected. The better men who protect us from those who would only protect themselves are our courageous policemen and women and soldiers in arms.


Bouchard2008
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:24 pm

Well said. I for one don't 'register' my firearms, but I understand your point.

The key is consistancy of thought and ideas. Unlike the Code Pinko crowds that are all about 'freedom of speech for ME ONLY'.

“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened.” Norman Thomas, *1936* presidential candidate on the Socialist ticket, He went on to say: “I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party . The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.”


Captain O'Neill
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:27 pm

Core Ireland: As a Moderate with heavy Liberal tendencies who supports the Second Amendment, I am offended by your blanket bullshit about Left wing agenda and contradiction. You speak about the failings of being superior in one breath and then do the exact same thing in the next. You are part of the problem. I support freedom of choice not because of inconvenience but because if life were so f**king sacred we wouldn't waste it with massive full scale warfare and the weapons that are capable of reducing people to a fine red mist. I am for responsible gun ownership but I also believe that the Capitalist system is failing under deregulation and Americans have bought into the rhetoric of the right wing who panders to a very elite and stifling 1% of the country and they don't even know it. So, before you go off criticizing “liberals” for having contradictory beliefs, look at your own belief system and examine exactly why you have it. I know why I believe what I do, do you?


Drasties - Dutch on the World - World on the Dutch
Pingback posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:27 pm

[...] As ThinkProgress has noted, the right wing continues to escalate its fear-mongering that President Obama will take away Americans’ Second Amendment rights. In a New York Times op-ed this weekend, Charles Blow reported that such rhetoric “has helped fuel the panic buying of firearms.” On Saturday, the Washington Independent’s Dave Weigel went to the bi-annual Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot in Kentucky and saw this phenomenon first-hand: [...]


friendlyskies
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:27 pm

Beatnik, you need to lay off the weed. That was a joke – Kalishnikov was working for the USSR when he designed the gun. Get it? It's literally a commie gun. If you can't accept the fact that leftists have created totalitarian states before, than you've got issues. Heck, Hitler was a socialist. And all those US soldiers and contractors are socialists, too – they work for the central government and earn taxpayer dollars. There's more than one kind of socialism on the rise in the USA. Look at the socialism among the people who actually have government jobs or accept government contracts, social services, etc – the Americans who are real, practicing socialists. And tell me that there's not one of them who would fight for a totalitarian state.


8vPete
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:37 am

I will always despise and wish death upon neo-Nazis and people who are racist against Muslims.


8vPete
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:37 am

I will always despise and wish death upon neo-Nazis and people who are racist against Muslims.


Shade Hemlock
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:44 pm

It was not Bush, but Blanco and Naggin that tried to take the guns…


andrew
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:48 pm

you understand the source of problems and I hope that you will keep the same views and express it to others that cannot understand such a resolve of peace.

you are right, but being able to toss aside sins is hard once you start and nowadays its a dog eat dog world, you cant even express views of acceptance without being prosecuted by people who's views only consist of prejudice and egotism. even if you are right people will see your acceptance as weakness and that you are a tree hugging pussy. people love power and popularity so much that it has made peoples confidence and ability to understand rot and decay to be replaced with this egotism, insecurity, and self righteousness, sinning and killing are reasonable to people now with this frame of mind. its sad really. I hope as a species we will move on from the way of thinking to how Bonniej harris here, Buddha, jesus, socrates and countless other evolutionarys view the world.
in reality with the technology we have at our disposal now If we dont change our way of thinking, humans will cease to exist. either because we all kill eachother or we will destroy our planet and make our home inhabitable.


Bouchard2008
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:48 pm

The Iraq issue is a huge issue that I would not even try to tackle, especialy in a comments board about Knob Creek. Suffice to say that my *personal belief* is that Bush and clan knew full well what they were doing, just did'nt know how to do it well as it was not conducted by their Generals until Petraus was given control to actualy work Counter Insurgency. My *personal* thoughts on it is they were trying to open up a new front in the GWOT and perhaps conduct a stratigic envelopment of a larger threat (Iran) and/or establish what they thought would be a presence smack in the middle of the middle east (A-La Korea or Post-War Germany).

More in line with the topic and your final paragraph, I am going to say this next part as bluntly, and succently as I know how. As a soldier in the US army who has been around since before 9/11, been to Iraq twice and heading to Afghanistan in the near future, and happen to know a couple of good friends who are police officers. YOU SHOULD NEVER TRUST YOUR SAFTEY OR THE SAFTEY OF YOUR FAMILY TO ONLY THE POLICE AND/OR MILITARY. I will leave most of that unsaid as it is explored in psychology pretty deeply but the more practical example is this.

I will be leaving my wife at home again. This time with our young son. I am a soldier who takes my job seriously and spend alot of time and effort on developing relevent skills. BUT I CANNOT PROTECT THEM. The police in my area CANNOT protect them. Partly because we live in a rual area (but peaceful), but even in a city that applies. Legaly and logicaly. We are responsible for our own protection from wolves (predatory humans) and the larger powers of groups of men (governments). I do my best to ensure she knows how, in the unlikely and 'hopefuly ' non-existant chance bad things will happen. But hope is not the plan, or any plan for that matter. She must protect our home while I am deployed 'enforcing the will of the American People' (always liked that way of saying it). She hates guns. But she knows how to use them if needed, and more importantly knows how not to be a victim in her own mind.

Any effort to demean that is a crime. Mabe not legaly, but moraly it is a crime to remove a fellow humans right to self defense from others. Physicaly or Psychologicaly.

“A managed democracy is a wonderful thing… for the managers… and its greatest strength is a 'free press' when 'free' is defined as 'responsible' and the managers define what is 'irresponsible'.” — Professor Bernardo de la Paz on the subject of free press. (The Moon is a Harsh Mistress -Heinlein)


Steve
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 7:58 pm

The so-called “gun culture” isn't really the problem, as I see it. I'm willing to interpret the bill of rights loosely in gun owners' favor IF they're willing to expand it in mine. In the big picture, the people peddling the hate pamphlets concern me a lot more than the people shooting the guns.


Beatnik
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:19 am

Of coarse it is. But not all of those people believe that. There are crazies in any group. But when you judgea demographic for the words of a few, that is wrong.


Small town American
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:25 pm

Socialism is fast becoming reality in America the beautiful, land of the free. I have seen it evolving since the early eighties in my neighborhood which is small town America. FEDERAL,STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS have been dictating peoples lives and actions more and more each day.
Government is necessary. Citizens and residents have brought some of this upon themselves. Now
they use our money to bailout? Buy? private businesses, give themselves raises and perks while allowing hardworking ,loyal, faithful citizens to lose their homes, starve and die. Next will they buy? bailout trucking companies and farmers to control who grows the food and who consumes it? You can bet they wont go hungry or without for one day. I am not trying to crack on every politician or branch of government. Its easy to see there are many great Americans working hard for the American people
every day not just during session. To those I salute you. You stand far and above those who simply use and abuse the democratic system, still the greatest system in the world. It is easy to see socialism will be here if we allow it to continue on its course We can and MUST change this destiny for our children and their children and their children……………Act now or accept it when it arrives but dont say you didnt know it was happening because its stareing you right in the face right now.


george
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:31 pm

Whoever chose the headline had it all wrong. These are not scenes from the “Real America”, not the America I've lived in in the last 50 plus years anyway, no more than drive-by shootings, serial murderers, or terrorist bombs are the “Real America”.

David Weigel, what are you, Canadian or something? Cool photos, but spare us the captions. The photos should speak for themselves.


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:48 pm

we already have such places, just look at any city or state that the dems have been running. oakland, d.c., detroit, new york, etc. no money ,crime rate gone wild, and full of barry loving scum, welcome to communism at its finest. yeah libtards!


The Mahablog » Insanity Unleashed
Pingback posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:51 pm

[...] also “Scenes from the Real America” at the Washington [...]


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:51 pm

you must hate black people too. they are the most racist people in the world now. from africa, to u.s.a. all are racist. so im glad to find someone else who hates racists as much as me!!!


george bush
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:52 pm

obama the greatest president kentucky 30 women 1 set of teeth


Specialist G
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:56 pm

I'm SURE you were posting these poorly written screeds against government abuses back when W was busy shredding the fourth amendment, manipulating intelligence reports to justify an invasion, and disappearing folks to Eastern European prisons. You should post a link to some of those comments so that people don't think you're just some bitter 20%er who doesn't like a Black man (or anyone to the left of Attila the Hun) in the White House.


Specialist G
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:58 pm

Why do you hate America? If you want to live in a truly libertarian society with no gun control, move to Somalia.


Specialist G
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 8:59 pm

Don't they teach basic logic or spelling in home schooling?


Specialist G
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:01 pm

“I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.” -John STUART Mill


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:04 pm

dumbass i love america, the reason somalia is the way it is, is the same all these american cities are the way they are. the government became socialist until only outlaws and thugs rule. idont believe for one second that any somali thug bought a legal weapon. socialism breeds anarchy


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:06 pm

im sorry if i upset your pitiful self, its just the facts of life. little girl.


Specialist G
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:07 pm

The majority of Americans support President Barack Obama and his policies. So, why do you hate America? BTW, anarchy is the lack of government, not its excess. I guess they were teaching political science the same day they taught spelling and punctuation at your school.


Bouchard2008
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:08 am

You are very right. And your reasons for your CHOICE are yours and in my opinion, very sound. However the saying Gun Control is about Control, not Guns fits here. If someone else in your neighborhood chooses to buy a gun would you try and legaly stop them? Call them a fat redneck paranoid freak? Statisticaly speaking, even the low violence you mention is reduced in communities where people have the freedom to carry. Most firearm homicides are the result of crimials who had no legal right to carry the firearm, and/or occur in ‘gun free zones’ where the ashat can be ‘god’ with power unchecked for a short time before ending his own dilluded life.

Because thats what the gun issue is really about. Before guns it was clubs and swords. Before that, rocks. As naturaly competitive creatures bad things sometimes happen, though we are the VAST majority of the time not willing to harm or kill other human beings without feeling threat ourselves. And unique to our society is the idea that the people reserve not only the right, but the moral resonsiblity to overthrow a government that does’nt represent it (not my quote, look back a couple of hundred years). You can’t do that if you have been dissarmed and everyone who resists labled a ‘Redneck fat outlaw stupid scum’. And you are left wondering who is left to fight for you.


Specialist G
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:10 pm

By all means, keep calling yourself “The REPUBLICAN.” It reminds everyone why your party got its ass kicked in the last two elections and why President Obama will win re-election in 2012. How's that taste, my little inbred hillbilly?


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:15 pm

i only support natural born citizens, not a commie p.o.s. like barry. just because a bunch of retards can push a button, doesnt mean they are intelligent. now if they could write their own names, now that might impress me. and buy the way study some history not written by a libtard, and you will under stand, that somalia once had government for its people, until the islam facists took over and brought total government to them, and now look what they have. just like what barry wants to bring to us. yeah libtards!!!


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:17 pm

why dont you call yourself what you are a libtard dumbass!!!


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:26 pm

there you go again thinking, when will you libtards get it, your all ignorant animals and should be euthinized. im all for retroactive abortion, all libtards should be aborted.


Jason
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:32 pm

My God, you are a stupid and hateful little man.


Jason
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:38 pm

The surge at best was a band-aid that produced only fleating, temporary improvement in Iraq, and it's falling apart as we speak. Look at the increase in violence over the past few months. As we leave, Iraq will continue to fall apart, at a faster pace. Iraq cannot be governed as a democracy, and that will be proven soon. The hawks like you who claim the surge was such a roaring sucess are full of shit, quite frankly.


nurembergforw
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:40 pm

Obama is shredding the Constitution? Where were these guys a few years ago when G W Bush started repealing the 4th amendment and its protection against warrantless searches? Or when he did away with 800 years of common law and trashed habeas corpus? Were these yahoos protesting these egregious assaults on our constitution and laws? And the comparison of Obama and Hitler–classy. And so relevant. Wow.


Prof T
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:40 pm

Just as “art reflects life,” language–not just the words themselves, but how they are used (and spelled)–reflects something else entirely. After reading these posts, I'm worried.

The root of the problem? It is sheer, unadulterated stupidity. How many of you people have at least a BA/BS–in anything? If your gun's bullet can find your destination–and you cannot–then drop the NRA for a good BA in political science, or at least an AA in general studies with an (not “a”) emphasis in geography. You might learn something. Nothing is better for reinventing and reinforcing a fabricated sense of masculinity coupled with an urge to shoot/hit/burn/bang something.

cheers,
Prof. T


Prof T
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 9:49 pm

On this site, it seems, you must translate “habeas corpus.”

The key: Type four run-on sentences with five comma splices and multiple spelling errors coupled with dependent phrases dashed about like fingernails from a swiss army blade. Everyone will know what you mean.


alanmarv
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:19 pm

Thank you for responding to me.

On your first paragraph you will probably find it hard to believe, but I agree with you. I think the idea in Iraq was to shake up the Middle East and strategically place 160,000 troops (including you) right next to Iran to give them pause (and to get rid of a real bad guy, Saddam, while they were at it). While I understand that, the problem was they couldn't just say it since there was no justification for doing this. That's how we got WMD involved, a need to justify a war against our stated policies. Anyway, you know it better than I do, but once they decided to make this an urban war, they really didn't give our troops what they needed to protect themselves. I think this has really been glossed over. How could they send you in without enough body armor or IED protected vehicles? Again, you are much more knowledgeable than me, but that's the view I get from the reports I read. As far as I am concerned, that was Rumsfeld's war crime.

Second, I think that in rural areas, it makes sense for a State to allow more gun ownership.for protection and sport. Its the urban areas that really need the help and restrictions on the types of weapons people have. I am not sure I trust the police or not, All I know is three got shot doing their job in Pittsburgh by a guy with a bullet proof vest and an AK47. The cops I know are all really dedicated guys and we take them for granted (like our troops) until we need them. I don't know, these are really hard issues. But at least we can talk about them civilly and not put bad motives on people we don't agree with.

Finally, I mean this sincerely, thank you for your service. You have and are protecting all of us on this blog and we don't say it enough. I know its not much, but whenever my family and I are out for dinner and I see a person in uniform, I take their check. I am not rich by any means, but hey all you folks out there, just buy the guys a dinner or a drink. I think they appreciate it.

I know you don't think much of Obama, but really, give him a chance. He kept Gates who I think you agree has been doing a good job. I also don't think he is a pushover. As I see it, what he may be doing is setting up the N. Koreans and Iranians. You know, if Bush tried to take those guys out, the world would have gone nuts. But if Obama does it, after extending his hand in friendship, well, he did everything he could to avoid war and they spit on him. And remember, this is the guy who is INCREASING our commitment in Afghanistan. Doesn't sound like a pushover to me.

Anyway, I hope I have not offended you or your family. Good luck and G-d bless you.

(Hey, how old is your son. I got 2 granddaughters, one 10 and one 7 months. I'm sure like your boy they are wonderful. Who knows huh?)


Roy
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 10:25 pm

Big guns are cool and all, but I know of only two legal practical uses for firearms: hunting and home defense. I don't know what people think they're going to hunt with a chain gun, but don't worry folks, it went extinct millions of years ago. Home defense maybe, but then again what would have to be trying to take over your house in a tank? (and yes a lot of these are anti-tank guns.) Perhaps it would be helpful to ask yourself why someone would want you that dead. (Although I would totally thrash my old POS appliances once in a while if I had some of these)


Tony
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:40 am

No. People that own guns and snap are the same people that shoot cops.

See: a few days ago…


Tony
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:47 am

You nailed it CRB..


foreigner
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:19 pm

Have u ever been to Somalia Mr Republican?


foreigner
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:22 pm

Am very sure they have skinheads, KKK, A.Brootherhood, Neo nazis in africa


RC
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:25 pm

Good luck taking on a tank with a .50 caliber (this is the biggest caliber weapon I see in the photographs), you will will not last long! But I see your point there is no reason to own these larger caliber weapons although I can see the reason why people want to own them and seriously when was the last time you heard of somebody being killed by a chaingun or .50 caliber machine gun these are way to impractical to use in a crime.


The Liberty Papers »Blog Archive » Good Gun Nuts, Bad Gun Nuts
Pingback posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:30 am

[...] Stacy McCain) brings us all sorts of gun goodness with a fair amount of gun n0t-so-goodness in this photo spread at the Washington Examiner.  “I spent Saturday at the bi-annual Knob Creek Machine Gun [...]


RC
Comment posted April 6, 2009 @ 11:38 pm

I myself hold a BS in bio-engineering and I strongly support Americans rights to own arms although I agree there should be limits on military grade weapons I disagree with your statement of “Nothing is better for reinventing and reinforcing a fabricated sense of masculinity coupled with an urge to shoot/hit/burn/bang something” this is a very simplistic viewpoint meant to put down people who you seem to regard as stupider or lesser to you . Oh and everybody knows that political science majors are a joke!!!


Kaktuss
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:04 am

That's a huge load of steaming crap, Doug. George H. W. Bush fought against Nazi allies, the Japanese, during WWII, and was decorated multiple times.

And the rumors concerning the grandfather, Sen. Prescott Bush, financing Nazis have been long debunked as unfounded:

In 2003, the Anti-Defamation League responded, saying:
“ Rumors about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush … have circulated widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated. Despite some early financial dealings between Prescott Bush and a Nazi industrialist named Fritz Thyssen (who was arrested by the Nazi regime in 1938 and imprisoned during the war), Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathizer.[6][12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:23 am

oh so only white people are racists huh. have you never heard of the new black panther party, maybe you should look it up dumbass. and thank god im not white because i cant be a racist. i just hate dumbass libtards like you!!!


The REPUBLICAN
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:24 am

thats not what your mom said, of course she just moaned alot.


dumbguns
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:57 am

freaks and losers – could have expected that from the inbreds from the hills. They must have gotten their info from the local bar while on a bender or dick cheney. (good shot if he was aiming at his attorney) I shoot better than most, have great respect for gun rights, and can still understand the vast difference between truth and total lies. Their kentucky mommas let them live? pity.


Conservatie Professor
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:03 am

Since when does a BA, BS, MA, MS, PhD, etc. warrant intelligence? The heart of America is not in an 8×12 inch sheepskin hanging on the wall, but in the souls of its people. Education is relative as seen by the many intelligent as well as equally ignorant students who grace my classrooms. The greatest ignorance I encounter are from learned liberal professors who seem to replicate like cockroaches. I seldom flash my credentials to affirm who I am. If I must, then allow me to sign this as one conservative professor. Professor K


Special K
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:10 am

The obvious response is that it tastes like fried chicken and watermelon, but since we're talking about a muslim douchebag I supposed I'd have to say it tastes like sand


Special K
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:16 am

Man you are a first class clunt.

The only one's to universally admit that are the arrogant liberals. Did John make a good living?


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:25 am

Guns are the answer to many social ills and have been for a long time, otherwise we would all be British subjects or watching the goose stepping Hitler youth parade. I cannot believe how the people of this country can spew out the pap they have been handed. a generation (maybe two) of totally propagandaized people.


photo » Blog Archive » The Washington Independent » Scenes From the Real America
Pingback posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:55 am

[...] m­­ore here: Th­e Wash­ingto­n Indep­endent » Sc­enes F­ro­m­ th­e … Share and [...]


tincture
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:01 am

I call bullshit. It’s alot harder to kill 3 cops w/ a salmon or a knife than it is a gun. Yes it’s still possible for ppl to hurt and kill each other w/o guns but only a moron would think anything w/ death tolls like a shooting rampage or the DC sniper would be happening w/o them.


WFIGUY
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:01 am

Actually military grade weapons are exactly the type of weapons that the founders intended when writing the 2nd Amendment. The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to prevent the Government Troops from controlling the citizenry. Good luck facing down a light infantry division with a semi-automatic 9mm.


Bouchard2008
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:38 am

At a time when the modern 'conservative' would have been a liberal. 'Liberal' and 'Conservative' are time sensitive terms. Look at John S. Mills time in england and you will see his philosophy and can translate accordingly


Henk
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 5:41 am

“Guns are the answer to many social ills and have been for a long time, otherwise we would all be British subjects or watching the goose stepping Hitler youth parade. I cannot believe how the people of this country can spew out the pap they have been handed. a generation (maybe two) of totally propagandaized people.”

This is really pretty funny, you meant it to be right? Your Spewing Pap and propaganda was meant to be ironic, right?


Conservatives embody ignorance
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 6:08 am

Shorter Conservative Professor: Intelligence is what I say it is.


Citizen Cane
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 6:10 am

I “under stand”: capitalization and literacy in general are for stupid, ignorant libtards, while REEL Americans which – “buy the way” – studied it all don’t need to show off with stuff like that, right?

Gosh, inbreeding makes wonders…


Aeros
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:00 am

So, who were those people dishonoring the American uniform by wearing a Nazi hat with it? Don't they realise how many US Soldiers died fighting people who wore that same thing?


Ross
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:08 am

RC, the Lahti is a 20mm anti-tank weapon from WWII.

As for why would you want to own one… why not? It's cool, it's history, it's probably fun to shoot. Doesn't mean that I'm afraid that I'm going to see a BFV coming down my street, it just means exactly what I said – it'd be interesting to see if I would have the skill to shoot this accurately.

People keep trying to twist gun ownership into something dark… sometimes we own a particular gun because it's a cool design and we appreciate fine machinery. Like the COP4 I used to own, or the Artillery Luger I wish I could afford. Or the 1861 Springfield I'd love to own… not because I want to go kill some Rebs with it, but because my g'g'grand-uncle carried one in the Civil War. It's family history.


thefrontpage
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:20 am

This is scarier than Newt Gingrich.


SayUncle » Knob Creek
Pingback posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:33 am

[...] then there’s the kind where some lefty goes and takes photos of the less than 1% who have some kind of Nazi stuff. And then someone reads it and is all butthurt because someone compares Obama to a Nazi. As though [...]


olive
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:34 am

Listen, I'm willing to accept that you personally might only be in it for the cool design and “fine machinery,” but can't you see how a culture that combines automatic and anti-tank! weapons and extreme paranoia might worry some of us? These images aren't showing people glorying in the rich history of the technological development of firearms; they are showing people equating our democratically elected president with a fascist threat or a manchurian-candidate type impostor, while simultaneously expressing their belief in armed revolution.

The critique that you find in this piece isn't levelled at every single NRA member, or gun owner, or gun show attender. It's just meant to reveal a scary combination of beliefs that perhaps exists only in a minority of this group, but which, when armed, can do a lot of damage. Let me put it another way. Some people may want to read the handbook on assassinations out of technical or historical or linguistic curiosity, or as research for a book. Others may want to read it because they want to use it. And it only takes one.

Can you accept that that's a reasonable conclusion to draw?

Mind, I'm not calling for censorship. I just think that people like you — non-paranoid gun show attendees — should be more open in condemning as unacceptable those of your peers who seem to be seriously contemplating political murder.


David
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:40 am

Attraction to vitriolic fear-monger rhetoric + an obsession with assault weapons = a deadly mix. This is not even remotely about just enjoying target shooting (those people are found at the olympics) or about the legion of hunters who still possess common sense. This is about a nutcase perspective which is subscribed to by way too many people who really ought to know better. I grew up Southern, I used to hunt (and still support hunting), and because of my various experiences, acquaintances, and relatives, I know some of these people. What they believe and what they promote are dangerous and are as poisonous to the development of their children as citizens as was the racism of my youth in the apartheid South.


Mert
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:00 am

Shame on them…….that's all I can muster to say.

The sign about shredding the constitution….that one just tops it. Where were these gunslinging Nazi's during the last administration??????? So much more damage to our personal freedoms and our constitution by the Bushites!!!!!


Barak Obama
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:12 am

Guns are just another way to counter our fear. Fear of being prey, fear of being controlled, fear of the unknown. Fear. It's part of being an animal. We don't eat panthers, bears, wolves, and lions…but we hunt them..we kill them because they are predators. We have killed predators since the beginning…with pointy sticks and rocks…now we have guns and recognize the greatest predator as our fellow man…in wartime or peace. A gun is just the result of a rock or pointy stick's evolution in the hand of an animal that makes tools for what it thinks it needs.
So, if we accept that fear is the reason we have guns and shoot things, then what kind of person is the most afraid? The weakest. They feel like they have little control over their own fortunes..they are usually uneducated / unqualified for secure professional employment. They are laborers, either with layers of management above them, or completely adrift from the corporate structure of our current capitalist society. The feel they have no voice. They feel taken advantage of and, in a world they cannot understand, they are afraid.
They get guns. They feel empowered. After all, they are the footsoldiers…the fodder for the cannons…and like all peasants before them and after, they are tired of not havig a voice. Posters and Tshirts and guns. We shouldn't be condemning their actions, i don't think. They are afraid. They will make some noise and shoot their guns. Pity them.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:16 am

but, David, they still have a right to think it or say it…
They can be criminally prosecuted for ACTING in violation of laws, BUT…
All Americans have the right to act as they choose, associate with whom they please and think and speak what they think. Those are RIGHTS…to muzzle free speech, THAT is breaking the law. To tell people they cannot peaceably assemble, THAT is breaking the law. To tell people they may not arm themselves, THAT is counter to constitutional rights.
One more item you all seem to forget, this country was FOUNDED by rebels IN OPEN REBELLION and at WAR with their sovereign authority. They were ARMED with guns. You see, I am afraid that what this country stand for, the rights that are guaranteed in our Bill of Rights and Constitution, I am afraid that the concepts have been twisted and warped.
It is no wonder this country is in such dire straits. The “American Dream” of freedom and equality has surely be denied by the propaganda machine for the last thirty years. If you are younger than 45, well you just don't know what FREEDOM is…
I was just a kid myself when I had a wonderful teacher. He pointed out that Russia was not the only purveyor of propaganda, the US was/is a propaganda mill. I sure wish the majority of citizens in this country would think for themselves as we were taught to do, instead of buying the :party line”.
Life BEFORE the left screwed up all things was much better, families were stable, jobs were stable, industry existed and flourished IN THIS COUNTRY. we WERE the most powerful, wealthiest nation on the planet and in the history of the world.
Then the “left” took over and here we are…
Our economy is on the rocks, we are disrespected by just about every nation on earth, and a nation that murders it's own unborn and born children, a nation where kids kill other kids in and out of school.
Hey, us old farts can remember a MUCH better USA, led by what you would call conservatives.
I still believe that your (collective you) freedom ends at my front door. In other words my business my is my business… or as in the case of the topic here, if you don't like it DON'T LOOK…
The rift in this country is NOT caused by the folks shown in these pics…they are minding their own business, the left wing press is out there stepping on their rights to peaceably assemble. I sure hope they got releases to publish these photos of people with their names, or I hope the subjects sue the crap out of the posters of the photos.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:20 am

I just simply cannot understand how all of you “enlightened” idiots out there can make blanket statements about people you have never met. lets substitute the words “non-whites” for the words gun owners…see how that sounds to you. Just MAYBE you might recognize that you are a WORSE bunch of bigots than the folks you are criticizing.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:32 am

I can tell you, I DO NOT feel afraid…of ANYTHING or ANYONE. I am CONFIDENT that i control my own destiny. So confident in fact that I deeply RESENT any attempt by the government to intrude into my life. You are obviously seriously misinformed about the people you seem to think you have an accurate opinion about.
We are the folks who are NOT in the cities, as a matter of fact, we DO feel sorry for the folks that are there (in the cities) and subject to BEING afraid. Those that have police to “protect them” against DAILY threats to their well being and the welfare of their families.
We here in what you would call the land of the peasants, enjoy virtually crime free existences. We can leave our home UNLOCKED, leave our belongings in our UNLOCKED cars and go about our daily business with never a thought about being mugged or molested. No, we are not afraid. Fact of the matter is WE are strong minded and willed individuals, we have no intention of EVER being afraid, that is why we are here in the boonies, that is why we exercise our right to bear arms. NOT from fear, but rather from the lack of it.
It is my belief that those who cluster f*** in cities and suburbs, THEY are the fearful, afraid that they do not have the gumption to make it on their own. Think your tough? Try country life for a few years…You will see who the fearful sissies are.


Barak Obama
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:33 am

Hell yayah gurl!1! We gots tha riaht to qwear Nazi paraphenalia and say we are good Amuricans!! We got the riaght to dress our kids up lahk Nazis and tell em to hate!!! We got the riaght to be idots!!! Why you hatin on us???Dang


Barak Obama
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:42 am

Midwest Maven – you are a moron and you smell like tacomeat. That is all.

nice use of all caps..methinks thou doth protest too much…sacaraedy cat…why are you so angry if it's not true?..settle down there Cleetus. I liv in da Kuntry!! well yehaw!!! Is that you in the picture above with the “machine gun shoot” shirt on? I bet it matches your physique. you are disgusting peice of human garbage who should be exterminated like a cockroach. Kepp your moronic opinions to yourself genius…you can't even string a coherent sentence together. You wrote a huge email swearing you werent afraid of ANYTHING and then promptly wrote another one listing what you are afraid of: “am afraid that what this country stand for, the rights that are guaranteed in our Bill of Rights and Constitution, I am afraid that the concepts have been twisted and warped.” Shut the hell up and go back to your “stories” you unemployed uneducated douchewaffle…you are here to clean the toilets, leave the chatting to those who are qualified.


Mags not ammo
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:52 am

Dave:

Maybe someone else pointed it out, but your photo of “good deals on ammo” actually shows prices for empty magazines for AK47s. I have no idea if those are good deals (not a gun owner), but there's at least a small difference b/t ammo and magazines.


Hell To The Yeah
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:56 am

Where were these Right Thinking Americans when Bush was busy shredding the constitution? Were they asleep before January 20, 2009, or are they just willfully ignorant racists?


surfjac
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:59 am

Why is it these “people” who claim to love America seem to be in bed with Hitler, America's biggest enemy of the 20th century? What kind of twisted mentality have they been subjected to ?
Why does anyone need an AK-47 to hunt? What “regulated militia” do these “People” belong to?
W does more to curtail the rights of Americans than any other individual in history and these “people” have it in for Obama? I'm telling you: its Hell in a Handbasket, it is.


StopRhetoric
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:01 am

Midwestmaven, it is this simplistic view of distorted reality that makes these people scary.

Life before the Left? What are you saying, the Conservative world back in the day is represented by Child Labor, Women not allowed to Vote and Segregation? That's the America you want to go back to? Please Identify one right in the Constitution that you have lost? Also, please identify specifically when those “good old days” were and who these phantom Conservatives are you speak of?

Have you read the Constitution? How about just reading the Preamble?

WE, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Seriously, if all you can do is wax poetic about “the good old days” than you need to check out and end your misery of being an American.

If you wish we could go back to the days of children and women working in sweat shops 70 hours a week, go to the GOP's 52nd State, China and you can see it first hand.

If you wish we could go back to those days when Rivers in Boston, Cleveland and Pittsburgh caught on fire from the toxic chemicals pumped into the water, again go to the GOP's 52 State and you can see it first hand.

If you wish to go back to segregation than go visit Israel where Apartheid is alive and segregation can be seen first hand!!

Otherwise, WAKE UP! You have consumed far too much of the Subjective rant Kool-aid that the GOP machine keeps feeding you to keep you fearful and ignorant.

Here are pure simple facts:

* Red States consume more tax dollars than they provide tax revenue. Blue states provide more tax revenue than the tax dollars they consume.

* Red States and their family values have higher Divorce rates, teen birth rates and abortion rates than Blue States.

* Income growth for the Middle Class since 1980 did not occur under Bush Sr. or W and was marginal at best under Reagan. The ONLY President to show steady middle income increases was Clinton.

* 80 percent of net income gains since 1980 went to people in the top 1 percent of the income distribution, boosting their share of total income to levels unseen since before the Great Depression. Income disparity rose under Reagan and W while the gap narrowed under Clinton.

* The LONGEST peacetime growth period in the Untied States occurred under CLINTON! 112 consecutive months of economic expansion.

* The “stability” of jobs you reference losing is directly related to the GOP's push to marginalize Unions…The GOP in keeping with their profit margins before Americans philosophy used their talking repubtard radio entertainers like Rush to make Unions “evil.” Hence with Unions representing only 7% of the entire US work force now, 5 Million jobs left the Country under W.

But forget facts, just go back to wishing we were living in a time when women were barefoot and pregnant, coloreds knew their place and birds chirped and rainbows crossed the sky in Candyland!


Run On Through
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:02 am

“Real America” – while you crybaby conservatives continue to stroke your guns, the rest of the 21st centrury is laughing at you – how stupid and scared you must be feeling right about now knowing that the Real “Real America” just got two more states in line with supporting gay marriage. OH NOES! Corn-hollin' ain't just for drunk, racist hicks anymore!


Hell To The Yeah
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:05 am

It makes as much sense as the Right Thinking Americans who claim to hate terrorists more than anything, but drive around with the Stars and Bars “rebel” flag on their pick-up-trucks or SUVS – newsflash – by our own definition, the Southerners were the original terrorists.


curmudgeon
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:09 am

This is so wonderful. So many examples of the prevailing liberal mindset – “Rights for me but not for thee.” Barak Obama to midwestmaven – “Keep your moronic opinions to yourself” along with so many insults – See? Rights for me but no for thee because you're an “unemployed uneducated” yadda yadda and “it probably matches your physique” and “you are hear to clean toilets” and so forth. We disagree = you're a moron. Love it when liberals shoot themselves in the foot.

I am a Jew. I despise anyone wearing any kind of Nazi insignia or uniforms, whether they do so by intent or through ignorance of history, there's no excuse. But I will defend my Second Amendment rights, as well as the right of any moron to wear any insignia they wish.

But I suppose tolerance is too much for characters who can only feel alive when they insult others over a difference of political opinion


StopRhetoric
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:10 am

Very well put!! As a rational gun owner, I have not run out and hoarded more weapons and ammo, there is NO need. But that is what differentiates Conservatives, they truly do operate under the fear and loathing doctrine!

Those of us on the Left, deal in reality and solutions. Jeez, my father is a retired Army Colonel, 3 of my Cousins (Robbie is in Iraq now) and a multitude of my friends are active duty and not a single one of them has run out to buy guns and ALL support our new Commander in Chief, period.

But they are true Americans, not these people who call our President “n-gger” and “whosyourmama”…Not these Conservatives that hate everything about America…They hate the government, the media, Colleges, Professors, Gays, Muslims, Illegals, Courts and Judges…

The irony is Conservatives have become the American Taliban….


curmudgeon
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:11 am

Bush was shredding the Constitution? Well, according to that same Constitution, you make an accusation, you've gotta prove it. Supreme Court of the United States reviewed the wiretaps and refused to hear the case. He shredded nothing.

But 535 dictators on Capitol Hill have been busy shredding it for the past 40 years.

Hey, never let facts get in the way of a good smear.


Ann
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:12 am

If I were “generously allowed” to live in your quaint little country paradise of unlocked homes and cars, I would walk with a gun. The only thing I would fear would be you and others that look like you. You are some of the scariest people on earth. You're murderous and in a group you are worse.
You guys lock your doors, because you believe yourselves to be safe, but what about the pedophiles screwing your children? you screwing your children? the spousal abuse that everyone knows about, but does nothing about? You have serial murderers living in your community that kills outside of your community.
Yes. I would rather remain “safe” in the city with police guarding my back, than surrounded by you good christian people.


Alias Undercover
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:13 am

So, when the next World Bank or G5 protest occurs, are you going to post pictures of people wearing Che and Mao shirts or protest that they display a predilection towards communism? The Soviet Union FAR outstripped the Nazis on decimating their own and other populations and led religious and ethnic sterilizations also, are you just as averse to the display of it's symbols?

I actually recognize a few people in these photos (just got back from a trip to Arizona, couldn't get the time off to go to KCR) and I saw the Fourth Reich shirt when my buddy sent me photos the other day (his son was wearing one.) Hmmm, just a few years ago the left and ACLU were all upset because some doth protest kids wearing shirts depicting Bush with a target superimposed upon him to school…I guess political freedom is only for those who chose the correct side to be on.

When it comes down to it, the white supremacists are morons just like the black nationalists…the Ché supporters are just as blind as the Hitler fans…and those who wield their guns in political anger are just as wrong as those who toss Molotov cocktails and rocks at protests. Some balance would have been nice in this photo essay…your lame attempt at such towards the end didn't really cut it.

Oh, BTW, the “Anarchists Cookbook” was written by leftists back in the 60's…a better reference is the far more informative “TM 31-210 Improvised Munition Handbook” issued by the Army…most of the better info in the Cookbook is excerpted from there anyway.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:15 am

You truly ARE an idiot.. I grew up in the northeast, in a town that shares a campus with one of the most elite, yet leftist leaning colleges in the country. I am the grandchild of immigrants on both sides of my family. That is hardly what you would picture from your description. Incidentally, country life keeps one fit.
Your ilk are all the same…personal attacks when you are shown to be the erroneous thinkers(? do YOU think??) that you are. I should be exterminated…hey where is the “moderator” here?…YOU should be banned.
I wrote no “email” if you are referring to my post here, that is a “POST” on a board.
You ARE truly the ignorant one as I am sure you have proven to just about everyone one with the above post, thank you very much! You have proven what you are much better than I EVER could describe!
Also there is a difference if the terms I am afraid that say, “I'll be late for my doctor's appointment”, or say' “I'm afraid you don't understand”. Those are common expressions of “fears” that do not represent any REAL apprehension about one's well being. THAT is the context in which I used the words AFRAID in my post.
I cannot believe it is possible for one person to display such ignorance while attemtpting to maintain an air of superiority. How long have you worked on this persona???I think it is time for reflection.
Anyway, we really DO feel sorry for you folks trapped in the cities and suburbs and you need for so many governmental services that you must pay for through property taxes. We out here have way less government, a lot less in the way of rules and restrictions and our taxes are ludicrously LOW. Taking care of ones own business DOES have rewards. Abrogating your responsibilities to others also means you are presented with the bills, both literal and figurative.


Ann
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:16 am

Way to go David! And congratulations on your escape and growth and retrieval of your own brain used solely by you.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:17 am

ACTUALLY, it was the “Minute Men”


Anonymous
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:19 pm

What a bunch of insane morons. And that’s being nice.


Anonymous
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:19 pm

What a bunch of insane morons. And that’s being nice.


ckerst
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:19 am

Apparently neither is bigotry.


gerald ostdiek
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:22 am

no, mr professor k, sheepskin is not a causal result of intelligence – and the relationship between the two is tenuous at best. i also teach at a university, and was a student at more than one of them. i can attest to the ignorance of many who proudly attach long strings of letters to their names. this has nothing to do with politics, just narcissism. but. 'replicate like cockroaches' really? what is your solution? kill everyone who disagrees with you? after all, they are just cockroaches breeding underfoot. they breed like vermin – these damn liberals – and they just don't make roach motels big enough to get rid of them. hence the nra.

and you don't think i should be worried about jackasses like you???

let's look again at your argumentation: you claim something that no one else is suggesting – that a having a degree -alone- signally warrants intelligence. this is argument by truism. it is a rhetorical device and not sound argumentation. GW used it rather often, e.g. everyone wants to be free, so we must invade iraq – see how it's done?

next, you you say the heart of america (should we call it the 'real' america?) knows better. really. the heart of america knows that intelligence is not measured in rolls of vellum you say? again yes, the anti-intellectual tradition in america is a great and wise tradition which grew out of the mechanic preachers of 17th century england. . . . . but so what. this has nothing to do with the argument that you are attempting (badly) to present.

see, a person can have a PhD, and no power in a society – just ask any of the thousands of professors who were rounded up and perished in the soviet gulag system. . . likewise, a person can have little or no formal education and still command world wide academic prestige – einstein, after all, had a pathetic little degree that in no way reduced his standing in the academic world.

the problem here is that all people, (including but not limited to the very real people who buy into the kind of eliminationist talk that you espouse) need recognition of their validity, recognition that they are, recognition that they are worth listening to, recognition – just, recognition. and when they don't get it, many (not all) demand it. with guns, and hate, and i am one of their (and your) targets.

i am a proud liberal, hailing from the tradition of other great liberals like madison, and jefferson, and jesus. kill me if you must, but you will not kill liberalism. it is the spirit of goodness (the spirit of god) that you seem to have missed out on when you snuck back into the line for more brains.

sincerely

professor x


petersyms
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:22 am

People congregate to cities and suburbs for a better life, higher standard of living, and easy access to the conveniences that modern technology provides.

The tax rates represent and established sense of property value. The government is involved because it represents the seat of its power, be it state or federal.

Living a quiet, peaceful life in the country is fine, but no country could ever subsist with a population doing only that. In all things, there must be diversity for a strong, well structured ruling body to represent all its peoples


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:23 am

we were fleeing to the country ahead of what we feared was coming NEXT…and here it is. I have no bills, no mortgage and enough land to feed myself very well (and my family if need be) and enough cash to pay my taxes and insurance for the next 100 years. I say to you, I was unhappy with Bush, he was sorely misled and NOT a world class thinker. Knee jerk reactions USUALLY are in the offing after something like the Bush years, that's why we're here now. I am alarmed at some of the Democratic leaders, it just that with them in the White House it is too many clowns for one circus.


David
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:35 am

Hilarious.

This is protected speech:

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/cla…

but apparently, if it's Obama as the subject (or the target of the joke), it's not. It's bigotry/hate/backwards/etc.

Ah, the sweet smell of irony.


StPaulite
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:41 am

I notice the emblem of this event is the German MG42 machine gun. As rough guess I'd say this weapon has killed more American troops than anything, right up there with the 88mm FlaK gun and the Kalashnikov.

Why do these men hate America?


Eric Weiss
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:41 am

Hey idiot, it's still protected speech if Obama is the subject. Get a clue.


Billingham :: EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE EX-TERM-IN-ATE! :: April :: 2009
Pingback posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:44 am

[...] Good lord, I hope somebody here is an FBI informant. [...]


Ann
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:44 am

“this” has been going on since the wealthy plantation masters knew they would have to do something about the class division between the very wealthy and the very poor. Redirect “poor whites” unease and feelings of unrest onto the slaves. If it were not for the slave masters having to “care” for the poor, then they would have been in a position to “help” “hire” poor whites. I may have screwed the pooch on this explanation.
Poor whites and poor blacks have more in common than they do differences and it is very sad that history of manipulations of keeping them at each other's throats by the very wealthy has proven to be so successful.


Dennis
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:45 am

I have no problems with weapons, I think a person should be able to defend him or herself from crime…but these idiots are something else..its all about race and paranoid govenment takeover..lets see, when did the USA ever start or come close to martial law? that's right under Bush..their dream is a combination of Nazi Germany and America, of course with them in charge…worried about government takeover? these are the a…… who would


Ann
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:46 am

poor rural whites are a scary bunch. They have been so manipulated by the wealthy they will never be able to see the truth for what it is. Hell, they still vote to protect the very wealthy at the expense of their own well-being. They are to be pitied.


Ann
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:59 am

“The irony is Conservatives have become the American Taliban….”

I will be using it. Thank you.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:00 am

Honey, i grew up in a smallish town, lived in the country, lived in cities, even lived in Boca Raton…Know what? people live in cities because they are truly afraid. Witness the need of people to live close together even in the suburbs of say KCMO or KCKS, plent of vacant/farmland, still folks end up on little 1/4A lots…they have been TRAINED that having others real close by provides “protection” as in more tax money for police and fire protection, more “schools” (another subject altogether) and facilities like a cement pond and libraries. I know what cities are and what they have to offer. I am not angry or annoyed when people chose to live in them. I don't poke fun at them or point out how strange they sometimes appear to “us”. We out here have a lot more tolerance for others than you guys do generally,(city folks). I for one am sick and tired of being branded as a “lesser” person in need of exterminating.
My attitude toward those who are incapable of becoming or even being desirous of becoming self-sufficient is rapidly approaching the zero tolerance point.
Read some of today's stories about the environmental mess we are in because of an attitude developed in the American people by Madison Av. Why we won't even drink plain old tap water (Discovery News) even though the environmental cost of bottled water far exceeds what we pay.
Incidentally, countries existed for thousands of years with only rural inhabitants. It is only the recent past that saw inventions PERMITTING cities to grow exponentially and the suburbs to exist at all.
As far as the taxes representing “property values”, tell that to the folks whose properties have been devalued by falling house prices, but they are still PAYING those property taxes BECAUSE the cops are still on the beat, the schools are still open, the firefighters are still on watch and Social Services Offices employees and CPS workers and the mayor and his minions, well, they must all be paid for…just like when that 250K house was “worth” 500K.


Laughing at conservatives
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:11 am

Not very smart, are you?

No one is taking away their speech. But we are free to form an opinion of their speech. Much like they're doing…

Oh, that's right. I forgot. Only conservatives are allowed to form opinions on the free speech of others. That's why you have Fox News.

Wow. You guys really don't understand the Constitution, do you?


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:13 am

IT is a FACT that when I was young, not a child, YOUNG, that the USA was a net EXPORTER of goods.
People could meet their obligations and personal bankruptcy was tantamount to admitting you were a complete loser/idiot/reprobate.
I am NOT being subjective when I say ONE salary was the norm and people lived as FAMILIES with a mother and a father in the home.
It took 50 thousand years for civilization to get to where we were. It will take less than 50 more years for it to be destroyed. What will take it's place will be human habitation of the planet, but it won't be civilization as we know it. Personal freedoms are DOOMED if we continue in our present course.
Another item, you are being subjective when you make your claim of enjoying freedom that 5 billion others would enjoy. You have less freedom than you imagine…Try not paying your taxes see what you own or how free you are. Use politically incorrect language…see how free you are. Also, like George Bush, you are mistaken, generally the only “freedom” people really want is freedom from fear. Generally speaking, human beings FEAR real freedom, it confers too much responsibility on a person.
I am not fearful…not much scares me, had yo lived my life you might understand that. As far as anger…well probably because there are too many folks out there who just buy the “party line” and don NOT think for themselves.


Todd
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:22 am

There's a huge difference, Alias. Those hippies wearing Mao shirts aren't armed to the teeth with AK-47s, don't belong to militias, aren't racist, have never seen a black hawk helicopter, have never gone by the name of Timothy McVeigh, aren't reflexively angry against anything that doesn't look or sound like them, or suffer from paranoid delusions that their own country is conspiring against them.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:25 am

the USA was born from rebellion:
As a result of the Boston Tea Party, King George III of Britain, ordered martial law in Boston to keep riots and protest down. wikipedia
Then suffered a Civil War and actually:
On September 15, 1863, President Lincoln imposed Congressionally-authorized martial law. wikipedia.
Also:
During the War of 1812, U.S. General Andrew Jackson imposed martial law in New Orleans, Louisiana after capturing the encampment of New Orleans from the British in the Battle of New Orleans. again wikipedia
During World War II (1939 to 1945) what is now the State of Hawaii was held under martial law from 1941 to 1945

So, see there have been a number of instances of martial law imposed.
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Maybe that's what those folks know that you don't.


Scott
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:26 am

Don't you get it? The huge, overwhelming majority of Americans don't fear their own government (on the level you do, anyway). They fear freaks like YOU. My God, you people are scary as hell.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:28 am

Why I ask, does the Reverend Jeremiah Wright say “God Damn America'???
Answer my question and you might have the answer to yours.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:31 am

Che, say, wasn't he kind of a guntotin' guy…and Mao of the little red book fame, do I seem to remember a repressive regime that forced people into servitude on “collective” farms.


fuck you all
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:33 am

you all are FUCKED UP!!!! sick sick sick bastards…


fuck you all
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:38 am

I have a gun to protect myself from asshole conservatives like you all– bunch of uneducated inbred redneck bigots…… you are all warped beyond belief i guess god made you all as examples of what is wrong and what true hatred really is….
here is to wishing you all the worst– maybe one of those nice ak47 will misfire and blow you the fuck up…
fuck you all… you sick inbred fuckers…


sickrepubidiots
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:41 am

its ok you all will be in HELL soon enough…………… its people like you who give us republicans a bad name… YOU sick disgusting pricks are NOT what this country was based on… you are all sick twisted killers… and closet fags…. god will give you all your due one day… all i can say is people like you made me sad to call myself republican..


schizophonic
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:49 am

midwestmaven,

you say

“It is no wonder this country is in such dire straits. The “American Dream” of freedom and equality has surely be denied by the propaganda machine for the last **thirty years**. If you are younger than 45, well you just don't know what FREEDOM is…”

(** emphasis mine)

and then you say (later on)

“Life BEFORE **the left screwed up** all things was much better, families were stable, jobs were stable, industry existed and flourished IN THIS COUNTRY. we WERE the most powerful, wealthiest nation on the planet and in the history of the world.
Then the “left” took over and here we are…”

(** again, emph. mine)

Lets see – almost exactly 28 years ago, Reagan came to power and ushered in a new conservative era – EVERY republican administration since then has extolled the virtues of Reagan… they all have laid claim to the Reagan mantle. And they were in control of this country for 20 of the last 28 years.
(argubly 26 if you count the gridlock during the latter 2/3's of Clinton's presidency)

How can you claim that the LEFT is responsible for the mess we're in? HOW?

The real problem you have, is that the last good conservative administration left office in 1961.

That's not the fault of the left


Not a cracker
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:51 am

Seriously, nobody cares what you think. Please stop embarrassing yourself.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 10:56 am

dare I ask, just what is “hubrid”????


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:00 am

what true hatred truly is…well I guess you SHOWED us since YOU and your ilk are the ones calling names, calling for 'exterminations” and hoping that we will blow ourselves up. Seems like the well educated and peaceable folks are the gun toters. Could be as I said, we have nothing to fear, you unarmed folks in the cities/suburbs have EVERYTHING to fear and just think, it's people just like you that you are surrounded by….You know it's funny when you think about it…people JUST LIKE YOU…I can't wait to see this!


junkmailqueen
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:05 pm

Thank God we still live in a free country where the conservatives and fundamentalists have not yet gotten our rights (freedom of religion, freedom from illegal search and seizure, freedom of privacy in our own bedrooms) away from us!

Not for lack of trying, of course.


junkmailqueen
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:05 pm

Thank God we still live in a free country where the conservatives and fundamentalists have not yet gotten our rights (freedom of religion, freedom from illegal search and seizure, freedom of privacy in our own bedrooms) away from us!

Not for lack of trying, of course.


StPaulite
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:05 am

Yes he does! Or at least he did, once. But that doesn't actually answer my question, does it?


Anonymous
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:06 pm

I’d be willing to bet that those cops in PGH were carrying.


Anonymous
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:06 pm

I’d be willing to bet that those cops in PGH were carrying.


schizophonic
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:06 am

Reverend Wright is a black man who spent his formative years in pre-civil rights America.

His views on America are tainted, maybe understandably so.

However, he has been discredited (by the left) because of that.

The right-wing crazy farm (by that I mean most of the nuts with the nazi shirts and commie conspiracy ranters) will be (and is) being discredited by the left – hopefully the right won't continue encouraging the crazy farm, or the right will be discredited by rational people as well. I don't like the idea of a one party country, so wake up. You folks are politically (and sometimes literally) lost in the wilderness.


schizophonic
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:10 am

I was responding to midwestmaven, not you – INDENTATION, see?

I'll answer your question though:

When did you stop beating your wife?

I don't generally answer questions with questions, but if the above doesn't answer yours, you're an idiot.


BongoSilly
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:12 am

C'mon dipwad – I was there and I had a blast (no pun intended.) I'm of Hispanic extraction and I NEVER felt discriminated or threatened in any way shape or form. I attended the night shoot with a friend (a retired DEA agent) who had NEVER been to the Machine Gun Shoot (this is my third time – first time for the night fire) – and he loved it. Racists? Sure – we all have our prejudices. I lived 10 years in NYC and some of the MOST RACIST people I've ever met live in Manhattan, or the Bronx, or Brooklyn. I DON'T own a gun (aside from a BB version of an AK-47) but some of us happen to think there's great engineering in the manufacturing of weaponry.


schizophonic
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:14 am

he meant hubris.

it's a typo. get used to it if you spend any significant time online. S is next to D on the keyboard.


petersyms
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:15 pm

This comes off as a completely cogent argument to make, then I see the rest of your vitriol. There is nothing inherently wrong with liberal or conservative, city or country. It comes down to the individuals who represent those areas. You represent it by decrying the current state of affairs and lamenting how “good” America was when you were a child.

Neither one is a factual or logical argument. Your emotions seem to stem only from anger and fear, anger that your beliefs are not dominating the cultural and political landscape, and fear that your way of life might have to change to accommodate new ways of thinking.

As for what freedom means, have you served in the military? Have you seen what it takes? Even in a politicized war, people willing to risk their lives define what freedom truly is. I don’t need 45 years of life to know that I enjoy vast freedoms that a good 5 billion other citizens of this Earth are denied.


The Freeholder
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:18 am

Ah, yes, the vaunted liberal tolerance of disparate viewpoints. So refreshing.


Not a cracker
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:20 am

I would guess that a bunch of innocent pimply-faced college age students who want to look cool wearing a Che shirt is one thing, and a bunch of racist, paranoid bigots armed to the teeth and willing to violently act out their threats of overthrowing a democracy because they're afraid it's “out to get them” is quite another.


Woman
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:31 am

A — Our economy is on the rocks not b/c the “left” is in charge — the economy was tanking way before the “left” came into power.
B — “We are disrespected by just about every nation on earth” — were you not paying attention during the G-20 summit? It appears that the “world” is willing to welcome us with open arms now that we have elected an educated, well-spoken, compassionate president — a president that knows that listening is better than trying to strong-arm people.
I'm sure that life was simpler when you were younger as you say — but regardless of whether the left or the right are in power, the world is changing — & when guns get placed into the wrong hands of those who shouldn't own them, that's when life changes & people begin to worry about their safety.


schizophonic
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:32 am

you know it's funny when people have such a distorted view of reality they think the left has been in control for the past thirty years. midwestmaven, you are an idiot. You cite random excerpts from American history, yet don't know what political arm has dominated the American government for 20 of the last 28 years. Based on your obviously spotty and distorted knowledge of what has been going on in this country DURING your lifetime, I really doubt you have the intellectual acumen to speak of the political landscape during this country's formative years. In fact I don't even think you can tell me who wrote “Common Sense” without using google.

It's time to save some face and to stop pretending you know what you are talking about. The rest of us have already figured out that you don't in fact, have a clue.

Regards


petersyms
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:32 am

Your alternative to 10,000 years of human history, progress, and cultural achievement is to return to a rural existence and repudiate all that we have achievement as a collective race.

That fact alone demonstrates why you cannot be reasoned with. You represent an extreme point and view and only engage in “debate” to lambaste those with differing opinions.

For example, freedom to not pay taxes. Why, in that case I would say that I reject the American government and wish to take no part in the institutions and systems it develops and maintains.

Are you truly 'off the grid'? No, that fact that you have a computer and internet yet at the same time decry city life is the biggest hypocrisy of all. If you are so adamant about how much better country/rural life is, why are you online reading articles and attacking other people's point of view?

Also, your hatred towards “schools” underlines your extremist point. Clearly you think children shouldn't be exposed to “mindless liberal beliefs” like evolution, biology, free-thinking, and every other science/philosophical discipline that presents facts that contradict your faith based values and beliefs.


Todd
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:38 am

You should go out and do a quick survey of all the law enforcement officials you can and find out how big a threat the Che and Mao t-shirt wearing crowd is the the very fabric of our society.


petersyms
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:42 am

Interesting, that in all those examples, the US was engaged in full scale war with a enemy that represented a true and very real threat of marching into America and taking over the country. War of 1812, Civil War, the enemy troops were on our soil.

Also, I forget to mention this, but the US being a net exporter? If you know anything about economics that is a absurd claim to prove that things were better 50 years ago. The US has shifted from a blue collar to a white collar economy, with emphasis on technical and scientific specialization as opposed to raw factory production. I fail to see how higher levels of advanced education represent a decrease in what makes America good.


schizophonic
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:42 am

The Nazi stuff is pretty disturbing.

When you can't invoke Godwin's law because of the nature of the debate, you have to admit that it is pretty messed up.

I live in Glenn Beck's hometown. I'm pro gun ownership. However, having been to gun shows in this town – it's hard to ignore the extremist fascist element that congregates there. Even if it is a minority, it's an extremely violent minority. That tends to get people riled up and thus lowers the standards of debate.

It's offensive.

Also, you are a troll.

There's plenty of insightful commentary online from the left. You just dredged up an article you knew would be a flame-fest and decided to point out your moronic view of liberal debate.


Todd
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:43 am

People often choose to live in cities because of the cultural and employment opportunities, though the chance to get away from lunatics like yourself has its merits, too.


schizophonic
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:45 am

oops, I meant to respond to Freeholder


StPaulite
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:46 pm

Bigotry is still protected speech, the two are not mutually exclusive.


StPaulite
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:46 pm

Bigotry is still protected speech, the two are not mutually exclusive.


Alias Undercover
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 11:55 am

So…what you are basically saying is…there are NO violent extremists on the left side of the political spectrum? I guess you must miss those under-reported events where leftist violence is rife. What you are also saying is that simply because these individuals own weapons and may have some seriously misguided political beliefs, that means they are likely to act out in a manner like McVeigh did…which is utter horseshit. Also, were you sleeping for the past 8 years while the Mao/Che fetish crowd were seeing black helicopters, suffering from paranoid delusions that their country was conspiring against them and were reflexively angry against anything that didn't look or sound like they believed it should?

I'm not supporting either side…but if you can't see both you're just as complicit as those who espouse extremist views. Just because some wackjob somewhat agrees with your general views does not make the means and symbols he/she uses agreeable…and because they don't understand the full depth of what they are displaying does not make them innocent. On EITHER side.

It's also interesting that you seem to not be able to come up with any violent leftists…don't watch the news much? Seem to forget about leftists like the Black Panthers planting bombs or Charles Manson spewing his insanity and inciting followers to commit horrific crimes in order to strike out at perceived enemies? Or do you simply feel justified in setting these individuals aside from the left because of their violent nature, even though their goals, literature and inspiration are in total lockstep with the extreme left? Neither side WANTS their crazies…both sides have them.


oprah
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:06 pm

Is the muslim thing funny because its true or sad because its true? Also i lost track of who this a-hole Wiegel is mocking..rednecks or muslims(who I suppose are the rednecks of religion in the year 2009.)


WhoKnew?
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:10 pm

Ah the stench of right wing Extremists~ Spreading outrageous propaganda and promoting violent tactics.
you have to shutter a bit, when fatuous, vacuous, right-wing assholes reveal the depth of their own ignorance.


Mike
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:15 pm

I guess you never watched the speech where he said that? If you did, you would not have had to ask.


angry in Idaho
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:17 pm

WOW~ people like this exist !!!!! SCARY SHIT, I think I would feel safer walking the streets in Iraq with a bullseye painted on my back, than be any where near these nazi loving freaks.
these are some scary mother fuckers- the kind you read about who go into a crowded building with their loaded assault rifles and kill innocent people for no reason. seriously demented individuals who have a warped view of the world.


Mike
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:20 pm

“Incidentally, countries existed for thousands of years with only rural inhabitants.”

Which countries? I have never ever heard of a country like that. Care to enlighten me?


Kingston Mannier
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:22 pm

omg these are some messed up and sick people.


Kingston Mannier
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:23 pm

no kidding, I live in KY and had no idea these kinds of events were allowed to be held.


Kingston Mannier
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:26 pm

hubris- is a term used in modern English to indicate overweening pride, superciliousness, or arrogance, often resulting in fatal retribution or nemesis.

people like you are really filled with hubris and hate-

I agree with you Kid, well said man.


Kingston Mannier
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

seriously man, you should really stop replying to peoples comments, because it is making you look really stupid.
How can you honestly defend such hate????


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:32 pm

THOMAS PAINE and that is the correct spelling. How is it that you think you are so intelligent?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_years_did_democr…
amazing, the truth is right there. …since 1956, the democrats DID control the House AND the Senate EXCEPT for the most prosperous years in recent history… the 12 years, 1994 to 2006 that the REPUBLICANS had control. Why do you not look up FACTS????
I guess it is not I who have the “distorted view” of history. maybe you shouldn't spread YOUR distorted view around.


angry in Idaho
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:36 pm

SCARY SHIT…. and these kinds of events sadly do exist all over the country- aren't these the same people who are all about “family values” and “morals” yikes!


angry in Idaho
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

I think a good word would be DERANGED!


Alex
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

It's funny to me. I'm a vet and I support Obama about 95%.
Odd that most of these people seem the type who would say we should support the President regardless, well when it's their guy in office. It's also sad that this is the image we send the world – overweight, out of shape, crazies toting guns that think just around every corner is a “Godless Commie” coming to take away your guns because somehow . . . Guns = Freedom.

I guess this is the downside to being the religious refuge during the 18th Century


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:42 pm

fact is the poster said NEVER… yes we have had martial law. PERIOD.
As far as your “white collar crap” lets see you drive what the white collar crowd produces, or eat it or live in it or sleep on it. What you absolutely fail to see is that now the “white collar” (what a poor choice of terms) economy has shifted to foreign lands too. Look up HSBC just for starters…off the top of my head. HP, Microsoft, the list is endless. I am very tired of bailing out the youth of this country. Your belief in what the government spews out is utterly incomprehensible to me.
So, Mr. White collar, perhaps you can get one of those Chinese built houses, perhaps your town can purchase a Chinese or Indian built road.
America NEEDS WORKERS not TALKERS or ass sitters.


Kingston Mannier
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:45 pm

Im a vietnam vet bro, and I as well support Obama. I swear that these people have a warped view on what freedom means, and is. Being a Vet, I've been there and seen first hand the death and destruction, these people promote.
makes my sad man, really sad.


Kingston Mannier
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

check your facts on something other than the internet. oh but wait, that is where you get all your information because you are a typical uneducated know it all who spreads HATE!!


heres lookin @ u Kid
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 5:48 pm

these people are pathetic excuses of human beings! I cant believe in 2009 such horrid events still take place. These people are truly sick individuals, born of hubrid and hatred &
unteachable ignorance.


heres lookin @ u Kid
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 5:48 pm

these people are pathetic excuses of human beings! I cant believe in 2009 such horrid events still take place. These people are truly sick individuals, born of hubrid and hatred &
unteachable ignorance.


Nigel Patel
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:53 pm

Yep. I'll be putting on a kevlar vest before I do any more volunteering for Planned Parenthood.
The “Pro-life” shooting war is about to start back up too.


James F. Elliott
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:56 pm

The “Some good deals on ammo” picture appears to just be of magazines. If you could get 30 rounds of 7.62×39 rifle ammo and a magazine for $15, I'll eat my left shoe.

It's crazy bastards like this make me glad I own guns. I don't trust them to not round up the liberals amongst them for some good old-fashioned firing squad practice.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 12:59 pm

Love it! Hey what would you say if I told you I meet the census criteria for Hispanic…my mom had an Hispanic surname. These “liberals are a hoot. they plainly are the bigots, wouldn't you say???


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:01 pm

I know what hubris means, seems to me I'm not the prideful one here, putting down masses of other people , seems to me that is the work of you guys, the “good guys” right? The ones calling names and spewing venom.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:06 pm

know what's funny to me, is the folks who support the right to free speech and the right to bear arms, the right to assemble peaceably…they are calm.
The rabid individuals are the “liberals” spewing hate, cursing and demeaning others.
strange isn't it, when you can see people for what they really are.
From what I know of these liberal freaks from these posting boards they are nothing but loud mouths prone to foul mouthed cursing and name calling. The make blanket statements about whole other classes of people whom they lump together.
I do know where they are coming from, I was once a liberal and a Democrat and worked on a couple of presidential campaigns. WAY back then when I was young and didn't know sh88 from Shinola.


John
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 6:12 pm

Gun nuts like Hitler.
Gun nuts think Obama is Hitler.
Gun nuts don’t like Obama.

No wonder they’re nuts.


John
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 6:12 pm

Gun nuts like Hitler.
Gun nuts think Obama is Hitler.
Gun nuts don’t like Obama.

No wonder they’re nuts.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:16 pm

I'm just curious, when was the last time there was a news story about a Neo-Nazi entering a building and killing people. Strange I can't recall any, please refresh my memory. I am not sayin it didn't happen…just refresh my memory and cite it. Don't go for Timothy MeVeigh, he was NOT a Nazi, Neo or otherwise that I ever saw…


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

we don't want to “round up” liberals, you'll all turn on each other if push comes to shove. We know THAT.


Jan
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:23 pm

How about asking the Law Enforcement Officials how big a threat all the legal machine gun-owners are to the very fabric of our society? I'm not being facetious: the fact that someone owns a dangerous weapon does not necessarily make them a danger to society. Even in America, where there is relatively little gun control compared to many nations, (I'm originally from the UK, tho' i've lived here for several years), i believe FBI stats show more than 75% of gun crime is committed with illegal guns.
And while it is possible to legally own a machine gun or other fully automatic weapon, it involves a special license which takes considerable paperwork, a $200 fee per weapon acquired, and being signed off by the chief law enforcement officer in your area. People who are prepared to go through this process because they're keen on military technology, for the sake of their beliefs (however extreme they seem to you) or whatever other reason, are unlikely to risk their rights to own any guns by committing a felony. In fact, in the 70%+ years since the National Firearms Act of 1934 severely regulated automatic weapons, there has been one (yes, 1, uno, one) case of a legally owned “Class 3″ weapon being used in a violent crime- and that was by an off-duty policeman. Over 70 years, Machine-Gun owners have consistently been some of the most law abiding people in America….


Shelly
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:28 pm

So much hate inside these people! It must suck to be like that.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:32 pm

please point out the remarks you find made by :

bunch of uneducated inbred redneck bigots….
.
that are so offensive that they made you feel;

you are all warped beyond belief i guess god made you all as examples of what is wrong and what true hatred really is.here is to wishing you all the worst– maybe one of those nice ak47 will misfire and blow you the fuck up
fuck you all… you sick inbred fuckers…
I could take umbrage at your posts, but considering the source, I believe that pity is a more apt response.


nyarlathotep
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

Guy in Pittsburgh just shot up some cops the other day, if I recall correctly. Had some ideas about Zionist-controlled government. Good enough for ya?


lordkoos
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:35 pm

How about the guy in Pittsburgh?


nyarlathotep
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:36 pm

Ooh ohh, another one. That guy in Knoxville who shot up that Unitarian Church a few months ago.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:40 pm

cite your sources please


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:41 pm

cite your sources please, or what you say has no validity


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:42 pm

cite your sources or it's just what you “think” . Real news (such as it is) not a liberal blog. Recognized news media, please


heres lookin @ u Kid
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:42 pm

A young man in Pittsburgh, was a Neo Nazi- and believed in conspiricy theories- believed the govt was going to take his precious assault rifles away from him.
well this past saturday he shot 5 police officers- killed 3 of them, and is quoted as saying he wished he killed more.
he is the same kind of idiot as all of you right wing crazies..


TJ
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:45 pm

@midwestmaven –

Was it one of those mean hateful liberals who blew up a Federal building in Oklahoma killing hundreds of innocent people, including little children?

Ermm.. I don't think it was, to answer the question for you. It was one of those loving, machine gun touting American Patriots …..

While those mean liberals may call names, I'd take a name calling over a bullet any day.

And with that, I'll end with “You, midwestmaven, are an idiot”


heres lookin @ u Kid
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:47 pm

you dumb idiot, dont you watch the news… this story has been all over the national headlines.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512560,00.html
look straight from your precious news channel.


heres lookin @ u Kid
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:48 pm

yes he is a complete idiot-


SGT. IRVINE
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:53 pm

real news… you mean FOX NEWS… hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
this news story is very true, look it up anywhere online. Just even more proof that crazy deranged people like you- do exist and do act on your sick impulses.
these police officers were only doing their jobs, and some right wing neo nazi who stocked up on assult rifiles and ammo.. killed them.
wow and you defend this kind of sick behavior.
what is wrong with you???


James F. Elliott
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:54 pm

Yeah, I feel safe taking your word for that.


dingleberrydan
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 1:56 pm

are you a nazi??? sure seems like it.


Michael Z. Williamson
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:08 pm

I believe it was a mean, hateful liberal who was the Unabomber, however.

I believe it was mean, hateful liberals who still propose trying Bush for “war crimes.”

I believe that mean, hateful liberals and mean, hateful conservatives have a right to express themselves in speech, print and art.

I believe it's mean, hateful liberals who are objecting to that in this venue, but endorse it in others, as long as it meets their needs.

I believe that as a rational adult, I can recognize mean, hateful people and avoid them without fearing them.

I believe it would be mean and hateful to smear all liberals with Ted Kaczynski, even though mean, hateful liberals will smear all conservatives with Timothy McVeigh.

I believe most liberals and most conservatives are not mean, hateful people, and are getting damned sick of the people who are.


Michael Z. Williamson
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:13 pm

I guess I have a different POV, being that I actually attended the show (And a lot of others). I see a couple of crazies and a few thousand normal people. I didn't see the white supremacists. They didn't stand out and I wasn't looking for them. I'm pretty sure if I went looking at an 0bama rally, I could find a few Spartacists or Stalinists. I know I can find anti-Semites.

I met a couple of criminals who were Vietnam vets. Should I assume all Vietnam vets are crazed criminals? In fact, I saw this movie once…

Should I assume that all 0bama supporters are like you? Or should I judge each one on his personal merits?

And I'm not only a vet, I'm one of the ones he crapped on during his “Fact finding” luncheon in Iraq. So I support him about -50%.


Michael Z. Williamson
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:15 pm

I was promoting having a good time and enjoying some classic military equipment. There were even some mules and a command track.

Again, I guess actually attending gives a different viewpoint than looking through the lens of someone with an agenda.


Michael Z. Williamson
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:17 pm

Ah, the stench of the left wing extremist–looks at one set of photos from one person with one POV and one agenda, and makes bigoted statements about half the people in the country.

I have to shudder a bit when fatuous, left-wing bigots reveal the depth of their own ignorance and hatred.


Michael Z. Williamson
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:18 pm

Like liberal Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber?

Like left wing Josef Stalin?

Like the tens of thousands of convicted felons behind bars, 95% of whom vote Democrat?


Michael Z. Williamson
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

Actually, that's a large Kukri–Nepalese or north Indian, and they're mostly Hindus, not Muslims. Which means the people with it are about as ignorant as Mr Weigel, calling it a “scimitar.”

I'm trying to figure out what “context” his news is in. The best I can figure, it's the “find the five nutjobs out of 10,000 and inspire a bunch of ignorant trash to start badmouthing entire classes of people over it.”

My daughter is the one with the pink rifle, which is neither an “assault rifle” nor “ready to shoot.”
http://www.time.com/time/today-in-pictures/0,31…

It seems there were more left wing trash on site looking for trouble to foment, than right wing trash with T shirts and books.


angry in Idaho
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:27 pm

Please quote your source- 95% of convicted felons are behind bars.. I want to know where your getting your information!!


angry in Idaho
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:28 pm

http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_the_news/…


anti right wing
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:34 pm

city of Pittsburgh lost 3 police officers, when a young white supremacist killed them
while responding to a domestic violence call. Richard Poplawski was a white supremacist and conspiracy theorist – armed with an AK-47, and plenty of ammo.


newbie
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:35 pm

your sick! I cant believe people like you promote and rectify hate!


Adam Rakunas
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:36 pm

Officers' killer and his Web world
Racist postings by the man who gunned down 3 Pittsburgh patrolmen are drawing scrutiny.

By Dennis B. Roddy

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/2009040…


newbie
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

all I can do is Laugh @ you… really are you that stupid??


Adam Rakunas
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:39 pm

Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity on accused shooter's reading list
4-page letter outlines frustration, hatred of 'liberal movement'

By Hayes Hickman (Contact), Don Jacobs (Contact)
Originally published 07:44 a.m., July 28, 2008
Updated 05:43 p.m., July 28, 2008

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/Jul/28/church…


newbie
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

Wow isnt that the pot calling the kettle black.. Oh wait.. Black.. you guys hate black people.
YOU SICK RIGHT WING JACKASS..
go back to your trailerpark, and eat shit!


John Thomas
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

I am shocked, startled even. How dare Americans have the right to sell/read/own kooky books that I don't like or agree with! And WTF are they doing with all of those scary guns? Next you'll be telling us that this kind of anti-social behaviour is protected under the Constitution! Hogwash. We must outlaw all behaviour that I don't like and round these people up and have them re-educated in camps. If we can't get them to see the things the way I do, we'll simply have to execute them. Luckily, I know of a guy that has advocated exactly that. Bill Ayers. Obama's close friend of decades (by Ayers own admission, post election of course) and personal life advisor.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:43 pm

you have not shown anything that says the shooter was a Nazi.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:45 pm

what news story? What news story says the shooter was a Nazi? NONE. you clever liberals boot around a lie until you believe it is the truth. You wouldn't recognize the truth if your lives depended on it.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:46 pm

I am NOT the dumb idiot. I said “Cite your sources for claiming the shooter was a NAZI. I guess you are too young to have learned that reading involves COMPREHENSION.


getoveit
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:48 pm

White Supremacist Kills Three Officers in Pittsburgh- hmmmmmm can we say right wing wacko!


getoveit
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:49 pm

ah yeah……….. get over it you idiot!


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:49 pm

ask anyone with a brain, liberals are like rats in a lab, crowd them too much and they'll eat their young….wait they're already doing THAT… figuratively, soon they'll be consuming the remains though…stem cells for the rich…


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:50 pm

refer to the post above, the answer is ther.


wow u r dumb
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:51 pm

http://www.adl.org/learn/extremism_in_the_news/…


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:53 pm

don't worry, it's on O boy's agenda


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:53 pm

p[lease supply the link to that story


Anonymous
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:54 pm

Me? a Freak? see that’s all you can do. You’re just angry because I not up to my ears in debt and afraid that what i have will be repo ‘ed any day.
The overwhelming majority of Americans are afraid of their own shadow and want the government to hold their hand from cradle to grave. They are on the “welfare tit” whether it’s Pell Grants, student loans they never anticipate paying back…tax credits for kids, (I paid for my own kids with no “tax credits” thank you) or a multitude of other “entitlement programs” . You folks are afraid that there is no way for you to get the government to pay for MORE entitlement. THAT is what you are afraid of. You fear us, because we won’t let you TAKE what is ours. Although the people in power in the Government are certainly TRYING to wrest every asset every middle class person in this country has in order to give it to the generation of greatest greed.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:54 pm

hey, as the saying goes, don't confuse anything with the facts


wow u r dumb
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:54 pm

your mind goes to some strange places for your responses- hmmmmm


chasmm
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:58 pm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09095/960750-53.stm

Here's one that suggests that he was at least serious enough about white supremacy to consider tattooing himself:

Around the same time, he joined Florida-based Stormfront, which has long been a clearinghouse Web site for far-right groups. He posted photographs of his tattoo, an eagle spread across his chest.

“I was considering gettin' life runes on the outside of my calfs,” he wrote. Life runes are a common symbol among white supremacists, notably followers of The National Alliance, a neo-Nazi group linked to an array of violent organizations.


D.T.D.
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 2:59 pm

You all are pathetic. Thankyou, Michael, for being reasonable.

Both sides, at the moment, are basing their entire arguments on 'guilt by association', which is a logical fallacy and would not be accepted in any kind of formal debate.

As in: A small fraction of gun owners are 'Neo-Nazis'. Therefor, all gun owners are Neo-Nazis.
Or: Some democrats are potheads. Therefor, Barack Obama is a pothead.

It's complete bullshit. There's another kind of guilt by association. It's called Racism.

For instance: A black man rob that bank. Therefor, all black people are criminals.
Or: That woman has a two-digit IQ. Therefor, all women are stupid.

See where this kind of shit gets you?

Grow up, and make a mature and logical argument.


Fallen Officers
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:00 pm

HE HAS THE NAZI EAGLE TATTOOED ON HIS CHEST.. Its not a lie you moron.. its not something the “liberals” made up. ITS THE FACTS!!!
The Associated Press reports:

A gunman wearing a bulletproof vest and “lying in wait” opened fire on officers responding to a domestic disturbance call Saturday, killing three of them and turning a quiet Pittsburgh street into a battlefield, police said.
The key is to look a little harder at the MySpace page of Poplawski's self-described “best friend,” Eddie Perkovic — the one that contains that anti-Semitic, anti-black racist rant, recommending that folks read David Duke and the Protocols.


Jamie Getts
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

how is this for your screaming for citation :
He has a NAZI eagle tattooed across his chest.
WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT…


Targoud
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

It's photos (and the comments) like these that make the rest of us (the rest of the world) thankful we are NOT Americans


Jamie Getts
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:06 pm

Keep proving you are a Racist Bigot! Your typing shows your lack of intelligence.
Quit pointing the finger at everyone else- you complain that people are calling names, when all you are doing is the same thing.
all of you people are sad.


TJ
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:14 pm

I believe that anyone who condones or commits acts of violence is wrong, be they from the left or right or middle or no political affiliation at all.

My comment was based on a completely off base argument in which was stated by the clown midwestmaven:

“From what I know of these liberal freaks from these posting boards they are nothing but loud mouths prone to foul mouthed cursing and name calling.”

Followed by a quite hilarious statement of:
“The make blanket statements about whole other classes of people whom they lump together.”

That is idiocy:
n. pl. id·i·o·cies
2. A foolish or stupid utterance or deed.

There are people on both sides of the fence, as well as those who sit on the fence, who are mean and hateful.

Calling all liberal freaks, and mean and hateful while crying about how THEY are the one's who make blanket statements …. idiocy.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:22 pm

please provide a link. Also tattoos do not necessarily denote affiliations for that person at that time. They are permanent. Do you agree with everything your best friend believes? As far as promoting reading David Duke, people also advocate reading Mao's writings.
MySpace pages, they are for buffoons to expound their idiocy. I don't go there, easy to pick up viruses.
Also, is there a picture of aforementioned Nazi eagle on his chest? Or is that an interpretation too.


Bill Pfluger
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:25 pm

Yes because the guy was a Neo Nazi- Just like some of the people in the photos above.
how anyone can condone this behavior is beyond belief.


Jackon Hardt
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:28 pm

The ADL Law Enforcement Agency Resource Network- look it up yourself.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:30 pm

sensationalism at it's worst…the reason for http://www.whtm.com/news/stories/0409/610578.html
plain and simple a wacko pushed over the edge.
It seems like the LIBERALS are the ones always looking for “conspiracies” and Nazis in the closet.
Sometimes people are just NUTS.


Kellygirl
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:32 pm

As a resident of Louisville, I feel pretty confident in saying that most people around here are not exactly thrilled with what went on down the road in Bullitt County. I think most people wish this annual event would just go away but sadly it keeps coming back and each year it gets worse and worse. While Kentucky might have gone solidly for McCain, keep in mind that Jefferson County (Louisville) went overwhelmingly for Obama. It's one reason I rarely leave Jefferson County.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:33 pm

you know, I agree we should crack down on hate groups…let's strart with the Nation of Islam or how about that PRISON specialty the MSTof A. i'd be willing to shut the Nazis up if we could shut them up and prevent them from gathering.


Jackon Hardt
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 3:35 pm

http://www.adl.org/learn/default.htm


Anonymous
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:41 pm

please cite your sources that identify that person as a Nazi!


Anonymous
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:46 pm

no, but people like you make me believe in eugenics.


Confused
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:47 pm

I don’t get it. Some of these people at this gun shoot have signs saying Obama is like Hitler. Other people there love Hitler. So if Obama is like Hitler, does that mean they love Obama, too? And what do they have against refrigerators?


Roberta X
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 4:54 pm

Headlines? “African-American convicted criminal kills four officers in Oakland” — hmmmmm, can we say…. Well, “whacko” is probably right; I don't know how the man voted. Does it make a difference? Really?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/… He does seem to have a lot of (posthumous) friends on the Left.

No one outside his family has adopted Jiverly Voong yet, though.

The common factor? Narcissistic whackjobs. If they hadn't had guns, they'd've found other means.


Ceara
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 5:24 pm

What a screw driver?


MTmatt
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 5:57 pm

Convicted felons behind bars do not vote. That is all.


NoOneYouKnow
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 6:11 pm

Stalin wasn't liberal; he was a fascist, a right-wing authoritarian who couched his crimes in the language of Marx and Lenin. His policies were no different in practice than Hitler's: conquest; the massacre of politically and ethnically undesirable people; claiming to be an upholder of the law while perverting it. When I think about it, that describes George W Bush as well, doesn't it?
As for 95% of convicted felons voting Dem–the vast majority of felons lose the right to vote, and ballots aren't handed out in prisons, so that “statistic” is a flat-out lie.
And Ted Kaczynski a liberal? What's your proof? He was much more a Libertarian.


edfan
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 6:26 pm

The collective IQ of that gathering was a single digit.
I never saw so many freedom-hating nazis in one place.
One liberal would increase the collective intelligence of that whole fascist love-fest by 100
except for the brain-dead morons posting america-hating comments here.


SAAAAALL
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 6:34 pm

So I don't get it.

Do they DISLIKE Obama because they think he's like Hitler?

Or do they like Hitler?

It's really hard to tell…


subtlefuge
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:41 pm

“The make blanket statements about whole other classes of people whom they lump together.”

Sort of like what you're doing right now about liberals?


ev
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:43 pm

The Unabomber wrote a whole manifesto calling liberalism a mental illness. You're not very good at this.


Doug
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:45 pm

First off I went to the Machine Gun Shoot. I am in no way a Neo Nazi or white Supremacist. I have been in the Air Force, a Sheriffs Deputy and a retail manager. I am a tax paying, law abiding American who likes GUNS. This is not illegal (for the time being) and can be relaxing.

I do not like the current President politics or agenda but he is the President. Do I want his socialist policies to work? No Do I want this country to thrive? Yes

The people making comments about the attendees to the KCMGS don't know me or any of the other 20000 people that attended the show. You make accusations and assumptions without facts. Most people who attended this shoot just enjoy shooting and the camaraderie of there friends
just enjoy shooting and the comaraderie of there friends.


Staci Q
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:52 pm

I feel bad for the individuals pictured in the above story, for they are so simple minded that they have no clue of the hatred they spread. It is people like this that keep the crazies of the world supplied with plenty of assult rifiles and ammunition. Sorry I dont care what political party you support- you have to admit the spreading of hate and biggotry is just sickining. And the fact that such simple minded people have such powerful weapons, scares the crap out of me.
liberal or conservative, there is no excuse for behavior like that.


Staci Q
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 7:58 pm

ok BUT if you really are a police officer, doesnt it bother you that a NEO NAZI just used his ak47 to shoot 5 police officers and kill 3 of them..
regardless of political party- the pictures in the above story CLEARLY paint a picture of hatred and biggotry.
Im sorry but unless you agree with the propaganda that was presant , how could you just enjoy yourself?????


Ronald Dinkleman jr.
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:05 pm

I like and own guns 2. But these people are the extreme of the extreme. there is Absolutly NO REASON to own a Machine GUN- non whatso ever UNLESS you are in the MILITARY and using it during your service, or training.
this should not be a Political issue but a HUMAN race issue- Im sure not all the individuals there were bad people, but the vast majority were there only to spew venom and hate.
I didnt vote for Obama, I dont agree with everything the man does, but I say give him a chance.. he is our president. Also Im not afraid he is taking away my guns, but I only use mine for hunting deer.. not humans… when is the last time you used your ak to hunt deer…
no reason to own those guns…non!


Ronald Dinkleman jr.
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:11 pm

Im sorry but what planet do you live on???
this sick deranged kid who had been dis honourbly discharged from the marines, for :mental issues: should not have been allowed to buy a sk47 assult rifile..
there is no justification. these guns continue to get into the wrong hands time after time.
and YES he was a neo nazi- the kid told police he was white supremisits


DO YOU SEE WHAT I SEE
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:14 pm

SICK. SAD. DISTURBING. REPULSIVE. IGNORANCE. HATE. BIGOT. FEAR. PROPAGANDA.


DO YOU SEE WHAT I SEE
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:17 pm

SICK. SAD. DISTURBING. REPULSIVE. IGNORANCE. HATE. BIGOT. FEAR. PROPAGANDA.


Eman
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:20 pm

The German National Socialists (AKA “Nazis”) were actually quite forward-looking and progressive; read for yourself some of the points from the 25 Point National Socialist Program:

# All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
# The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:
# Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
# In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
# We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
# We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
# We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
# We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
# We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
# We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
# The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
# The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.

ETC – see: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Program_of_the_NSDAP


hate sucks
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:23 pm

all I see is hate. these people should be ashamed. makes me sick.


hate sucks
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:26 pm

Misunderstanding arising from ignorance breeds fear, and fear remains the greatest enemy of peace


Repubs are Rats
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:30 pm

Fear, Hate, Ignorance.


Repubs are Rats
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 8:33 pm

your ignorance is really scary.


Doug
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:03 pm

The pictures above show a very limited group there. There are over 300 vendors and most are normal Americans. The guy in Pa could have easily used a shotgun or handgun to kill the three officers. The guy in Oakland wasnt a neo nazi and he killed 4 police officers. The guy in NY wasnt a neo nazi or white supremecist and he killed 13. The kid who killed his two sisters want a neo nazi or….Do you see where I am going here. There are bad people in all of society. Just some get more press when they lash out!


Steve Magruder
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:26 pm

Yeah, I hate weekends off, fire protection, retirement years…. all socialist concepts. Glad we're in the same camp.


Steve Magruder
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:27 pm

They don't realize that their President Bush's record was far closer to that of Hitler's.


TJ
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:29 pm

“The German National Socialists (AKA “Nazis”) were actually quite forward-looking and progressive; read for yourself some of the points from the 25 Point National Socialist Program:”

… ermmm, and they were killers .. what's your point?


mememememe
Comment posted April 7, 2009 @ 9:35 pm

Nut jobs in the south , pathetic !


junglecat
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 3:20 am

the KKK hides behind a white mask because they are Cowards. The Neo Nazis hide behind their guns and camo.
Both are cowards, both are dangerous.


alex
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 4:26 am

I’m sure these folks are nice guys.

Actually, that’s probably true for some of them. How sad.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 12:42 am

Doug, stop trying to confuse them, they DO know it all…YOU MUST be a Nazi trying to disguise yourself as a “normal person”…you proved it…you said you LIKE to shoot GUNS


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 12:44 am

yeah, you write like a true genius.


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 12:56 am

paint a picture of hatred and bigotry….so what you are saying is that you feel YOUR opinions and decisions should be the LAW of the land. Tell you what, I don't like Disney or it's programming it instills a poor set of values in our youth. I think Disney should be banned, not only that, i don't think people should talk about Disney or espouse it's values (like kids are smarter than adults).
EVERY PERSON in this country doesn't like SOMETHING someone else does, that does NOT give them the right to police the thoughts of the opposition.
You liberal idiots are so far off base as to me being a bigot or a racist it is ludicrous.
I am NOT supporting Nazism or racism or bigotry. I AM supporting others right to be as racist, bigoted and form whatever political affiliations they choose as long as they DO NOT BREAK THE LAW. You would think nothing of harassing those who do not believe as you do, I see no one on here defending Nazis EXCEPT for their right to believe as they do.
By the way boobs, my husband is a Jew and I have several “black” nephews and an Indian (as Asian) brother-in-law. You rabid “liberals” really ARE a bunch of boobs with all of your jumping to conclusions and personal attacks and just plain bullsh*t. You are bound to fail, sad part is you're taking us normal folks along with you. Not many of us will stand up to your crap…


midwestmaven
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 1:01 am

I see your point, it's starting to sound like here….Don't forget, the Third Reich was precede by great economic turmoil (around the globe, but especially in) Germany. sort of like here, today. Funny how history ALWAYS repeats itself, isn't it?


Escenas estadounidenses - DanielTercero.net
Pingback posted April 8, 2009 @ 2:51 am

[...] Esta parte de Estados Unidos sigue sin ser del todo comprensible, sobre todo, por las referencias a Hitler y a la Alemania nazi. No hay comentarios Haga un comentario…trackback addressThere was an error with your comment, please try again. nombre (obligatorio)e-mail (no se publicará) (obligatorio)url [...]


Chuck Bennett
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 6:07 am

I'm pretty sure all of those high IQ liberals were busy engaged in intellectual debate at the WTO and G8 meetings.

No?

How about these folks calling Jews terrorists? No a conservative to be found among them. All Liberals believe this? <http://zombietime.com/gaza_war_protest/>

Should we judge all liberals by the poo flinging monkeys that were out in force there?

Isn't that exactly what you are saying?


reese
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 7:02 am

We fought Bush's government for eight years. We never picked up a gun. Despite all of Bush's ignorance of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and his secret spying — we were not afraid of the likes of him.


How We Address Mass Shootings « Plumb Lines
Pingback posted April 8, 2009 @ 8:33 am

[...] population and confiscates their guns under the command of gun-grabbing limousine-liberals. They congregate to swap guns an ammunition, books about the evils of the Fed, and various other conspiracy [...]


Malnurtured Snay » Hitler Shit In A Toilet, Too
Pingback posted April 8, 2009 @ 9:09 am

[...] while this shirt is displayed at a clearly right-wing gathering, good luck protesting it: the Left removed that option every single time its radical members [...]


Russian Roulette Without The Gun «
Pingback posted April 8, 2009 @ 10:32 am

[...] It’s as if gun-nuts can recognize that there is a dangerous game of Russian Roulette being played, but they will not acknowledge that in this game, guns are involved.  The NRA needs to absolutely recognize that not everything is about them and their demented love for guns.  They push their lobbies while they pressure these scrupple-less politicians… keeping their foot to the pedal of their selfish agendas.  It’s not hard to understand the type of whacked out stuff the NRA and those of their ilk would really rather be doing. [...]


Murray Rizberg
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 9:39 am

I think many conservatives (didn't say “all” – got that?) are seriously confused and conflicted individuals, so much so that I am beginning to wonder if it's a conservative psychological trait. After all, some of the most vehemently anti-gay conservatives have turned out to be – surprise! – GAY! So naturally it is difficult to tell if many people at this type of show dislike Obama because he is perceived to be similar to Hitler or if many people at this type of show simply like Hitler. Hell, it's possible some of these people are so confused that they feel both ways simultaneously!

The only thing we can say for sure is that the conservative mind is an endlessly fascinating psychological subject.


Good gun nuts. Bad gun nuts. | Politics News
Pingback posted April 8, 2009 @ 11:02 am

[...] (via Robert Stacy McCain) brings us some gun goodness with a fair amount of gun not-so-goodness in this photo spread at the Washington Examiner.  “I spent Saturday at the bi-annual Knob Creek Machine Gun [...]


tb1010
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 10:06 am

The best part is the pricing on the AK-47. 30 rounds are $40 and 75 rounds are $120. The only way to get a discount is to rip it from my cold dead hands.


Scott
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 10:50 am

So is the criteria for attending one of these events to have a cholesterol level above 300?


bling
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 12:01 pm

With all the guns laying around, I think that can be arranged.


Bob
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 1:00 pm

NRA=NO RESPONSIBLE ADULTS


Dr. N
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 1:07 pm

Hey gun kooks, got penis?


Vietnam Vet
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 1:12 pm

a Bunch of Sick- Sorry Individuals.. Spreading Hate! This is not a Political Party Problem per-say IT is a Human Race issue.. and these people are not worthy of being called humans, they are bottom feeders of society.


IhateFuckingConservatives
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 1:15 pm

All I see is HATE- and a bunch of Fat Rednecks.. Glad I dont live ANYWHERE NEAR these Nut cases!!
YIKES!!


mars
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 1:17 pm

“# All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.”

dont you see a difference between nazi rhetoric and what they were really about? are you that dumb?

this is their social programs, mostly pretty standard socialist fare. I dont think any industries have been nationalized lately, have they? maybe some should be, would that make someone a “nazi”. when people criticize the nazis it usually for wars of aggression and crimes against humanity. that should be obvious, no? do you see any of that going on?


fvb
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 6:50 pm

Was Jiverly Wong “defending himself” when he killed 13 people at an immigration community center in New York?

Was Richard Poplawski “defending himself” against three on-duty Pittsburgh police officers when he lay in wait, ambushed and killed them while he wore a bulletproof vest?

Was Marie Moore “defending herself” when she shot her son in the back of the head at a Florida shooting range?

Pretty sure the problem with guns is that they let the delusional and deranged own them, and unfortunately the photo essay has far too many of the delusional and deranged on display.


fvb
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 6:50 pm

Was Jiverly Wong “defending himself” when he killed 13 people at an immigration community center in New York?

Was Richard Poplawski “defending himself” against three on-duty Pittsburgh police officers when he lay in wait, ambushed and killed them while he wore a bulletproof vest?

Was Marie Moore “defending herself” when she shot her son in the back of the head at a Florida shooting range?

Pretty sure the problem with guns is that they let the delusional and deranged own them, and unfortunately the photo essay has far too many of the delusional and deranged on display.


E$
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 2:02 pm

What do they do if a non-white person shows up to these events? I bet these people still believe in the Boogeyman. Please God, don't let them reproduce.

America, home of the scared


Vietnam Vet
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 8:12 pm

so true so true… bunch of gun toting assholes.


Vietnam Vet
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 8:12 pm

so true so true… bunch of gun toting assholes.


Dave
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 4:36 pm

why are these people so damn fat

armchair subversives============BLOATED COUCH PIGS?

OR WHAT.?

I like guns, and own some, but NOT IMBECILES with guns


jpbaz
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 7:23 pm

You know the posts on here are just as bad as some “fat redneck with a Obama 4th Reich shirt”. Get a grip guys. I am not defending the anti American wack job right wing but you guys are just as bad. It would also help if David had a real clue about what he was looking at. BTW the The Anarchist Cookbook is a left wing hippy publication. Making a judgment based on these photos is like making a judgment on Obama supporters (Of which I am one) by noting the African American woman that said on election day that she was happy because she did not need to pay her mortgage now. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes and colors. No need be be one too.


jump
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 10:24 pm

I know there are idiots on all sides. But these idiots are gun happy fools. Last thing we need is another domestic terrorist like Timothy Mcveigh. He was a gun happy liberal hating fool too.


Mike
Comment posted April 8, 2009 @ 11:14 pm

Trailer Trash.

I am looking forward to when the Federal Government opens a can of whoop ass on them.


A Fractional Revolution « Just Above Sunset
Pingback posted April 9, 2009 @ 2:25 am

[...] Independent was at a gun show in Tennessee – actually a machine gun shoot – and offers these photos, including the t-shirt that sold out in the first hour, Obama and Hitler on the front with the [...]


Not You
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 7:01 am

“Misunderstanding arising from ignorance breeds fear, and fear remains the greatest enemy of peace”

…chacterizes EVERY post below. Fear. Fear of independence, and people that don't think like you do. FEAR.


Mark Herbert
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 11:16 am

There absolutely is no reason for you to own a gun for hunting; the grocery stores are full of meat.


Steve
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 12:57 pm

You evidently have no idea about life on the farm.

We deal with coyotes almost daily. They kill our chickens, goats, calves, sheep, and even our household pets. Allow me to anticipate your argument by suggesting that you try humanely trapping and relocating coyotes. To where would you relocate them that eliminates their risk to livestock (food)?

Have you ever had to deal with a rabid fox, skunk, raccoon, opossum, or other wild animal? I doubt it.

How about groundhogs? They do far more than blithely prognosticate the weather each spring. We've lost entire barns because of collapsing burrows weakening foundations. One groundhog will also destroy well over an acre of soybeans in a season. That translates into several pounds of TOFU that will be unavailable for the next P.E.T.A. luncheon.

Let's talk about deer and rabbits. Aside from the fact that they're cute, they destroy crops with amazing efficiency. Have you ever seen the damage an adult buck can do to a cow? I have on several occasions. In every case, euthanization of the beef critter was the only viable option. Disposal of an 800 pound carcass is no picnic.

Do we try to eliminate wildlife from our farms? No. We d try to maintain a reasonable balance.

That balance is virtually impossible without the judicious use of firearms.

I live about 15 miles from Knob Creek. I've been to the shoot several times. Yes, there are extremists there, but they are far outnumbered by everyday folks out to see the sights, visit with other shooting enthusiasts, maybe fire a machine gun or sub machine gun (Do you know the difference?), or find a deal on a new firearm or ammunition.

On the whole, I'd judge the number of fringe types in attendance at a lower number than usually attends the regular protests at YUM! Brands in Louisville.

Do I agree with the fringe groups? No. Do I openly state my opposition to their viewpoints? Yes. Many of us who attend do so.

Mr. Weigel has done his work admirably. He has managed to find all the worst of the show to parade before the world while adding only a smidgen of what the vast majority of the show is about.

When will he turn his efforts to P.E.T.A. and their support of E.L.F., A.L.F., The Ruckus Society, etc. and their wanton destruction of thousands of pets each year? Or, will he turn his attention to the myriad other groups who seek to destroy our way of life through destruction of property, prevention of progress, and outright terrorization? I think that may be a long time coming.

Timothy McVeigh rented a U-Haul truck for his terrorist attack in Oklahoma City, Let's outlaw U-Haul. Or better yet, let's simply outlaw trucks. My point? Firearms are tools. Necessary tools for many. Recreational tools for others. If you don't want one, don't have one. It's that simple.


Steve
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 1:10 pm

And those who gave us these wonderful guidelines also gave us gave us what?

Your gullibility knows no limits.


Steve
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 1:15 pm

Where y'all from that you blithely practice the same hatred and bigotry of which you accuse those in the South?

Oh, that's right. Race religion, creed, color, national origin, disability, etc. are off limits – unless, of course, we're allowing our bigotry towards our fellow citizens show.

Your handle say's it all. It's all about youyouyouyouyou.


Steve
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

Precisely what Mr. Weigel is spreading with this claptrap. In a wood with 1,000 healthy trees, he has chosen to showcase a dozen diseased specimens.


Craig
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 1:33 pm

A photographer can manipulate any situation to show what he (she) wants to show. Are you all so stupid that you believe that these photos actually depict even a small portion of reality? This event could have been filled with nice little old ladies – which the photographer “forgot” to include in the essay. The Independent ran this “story” for the attention. It sells widgets you know.


Charlotte
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 2:07 pm

My husband and I went to the shoot on Saturday. I must say, I did not see most of these things photographed. What I did see was a lot of neat firearms and smiling faces. Yes, there were a variety of people that attended. What the photographer did not catch were fathers and sons spending an afternoon together watching professionals shoot very expensive weaponry. Most of the people there like to shoot guns as a hobby at a range or they like to hunt with no other agenda.


and
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 9:07 pm

fight club http://andreiv.mybrute.com


J
Comment posted April 9, 2009 @ 7:12 pm

It's clear, dear photographer that you were at least in some part politically biased and that you didn't state that up front. Minor ethical quibling aside you ought to get a better idea of what you are looking at before you lable your photos. You are right on with some of them but your lack of solid knowledge is showing.

Some of those folks really are extremist whack jobs but most are just garden variety hobbiests with an un-PC/”scary” hobby. It's a lot safer than street racing or drunk driving. It's legal and not an easy “club” to join considering the expense and government regulation.

Why don't you admit you had fun and just call it a day?


JB
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 5:56 am

Guess what
We are waiting for that day as well. Be carefull what you wish for you might get it.


JB
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 6:07 am

The point is they were progressive socialist. The modern left loves to play the smoke and mirror game of obfuscation. Deny their roots. I am not saying that modern Democrats are Nazis but that they share a common family tree. Their policies and philosophy are rooted in the progressive movement of the early 1900's. Read up on eugenics and the early progressives then be intellectually honest enough to understand that the Right is not rooted in Facism or Progressiveism. The Right has its issues but that is not one of them. Its the BIG lie of the modern left.


JB
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 6:42 am

Lets break this down shall we?

“The collective IQ of that gathering was a single digit.”
Based on what exactly? The fact that they own firearms? Well sir those full auto firearms happen to cost thousands of dollars thanks to the 86 machinegun ban. See supply and demand tells us that once something is rare the cost will rise. Odds are that the cheapest one there was somewhere in the $10K range. Now thats just the gun itself. Full auto eats ammo like candy and these days ammo is not cheap. So owing to the high price of this hobby I would be safe in saying these follks have more money than you would ever guess. Large incomes would obviously mean gainfull employment so they must be intellegent to have reached that level dont you think?

“I never saw so many freedom-hating nazis in one place”
Really? Did you not watch the Democratic convention? You sir do not understand the real roots of Nazism and its shared past with progressive liberalism. Nor do you know the meaning of freedom. Let me clue you in on the Nazi stuff. Gun guys typically like military history. We typically like WW2 history. I cant really explain why the taking of trophys and the respect of the enemy takes the form of collecting the relics of their gear. It just is that way. The uniforms and badges medals and weapons of our German enemy are interesting and are collected not in an effort to promote their political beliefs but out of respect for martial ability. Just like Russian and Soviet items are collected usually in the same collections.

Yes there are Racist groups that share an interest in firearms with the “right wingers” as we are called. Thats it however their political beliefs do not mirror ours. If you had ever spoken to them on a political level you will quickly see that they follow a collectivist philosophy based on race. It is no different than the ideas that liberals hold apart from its racial slant.

“One liberal would increase the collective intelligence of that whole fascist love-fest by 100
except for the brain-dead morons posting america-hating comments here.”

The addition of a liberal to that mix would spell doom for the liberal. His body could not take that much freedom and liberty in one place. To many people who do not need the government to help them do things.
To many people who look out for themselves and their neighbors and would give you the shirt off their backs. To many people who follow a religion. To many people that did not experiment with their sexuality. To many people who know what it is to be a man or a woman. and what it means to have a family. Yep that much real America in one place would cause the liberals head to explode.
And you do not know what Facism is either.


The News
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 8:23 am

Maybe you should find something newsworthy to write about and maybe put accurate labels on your photos and where are your photos of SWAT teams, municipal police and sherrifs, FBI agents and buyer and SEAL team members? You've made a pretty weak attempt to paint this the way you think it will attract the most attention.

Where are your photos of all the other military collectables from the US, Britain, France and every other nation on the planet and I hardly think calling the President a Nazi is racist or demonstrating any vague support of Nazism or white emtremism.

You more than likely have called George Bush a Nazi and I'd wager you even shot images of anti-Bush signs, shirts and posters hailing them as preaching to the quire.

These guys are minding their own business at their own event that is both legal and highly regulated.

Not to mention that these are pretty crappy photos of a place that has endless photo ops.

Go back to the coffee house/dive bar, have another trendy beverage du jour and shoot some more boring photos of some band no one will ever hear of.

…and FYI, I'm a proud left coast photog based right in San Francisco. I shop local, eat organic and support everyone's constitutional rights, including their right to say distastful things and own scary guns.


The News
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 8:43 am

For what? They are far more legal and less harmful than the numerous “left wing” protest groups that show up at economic summits and GOP political conventions.

I'm looking froward to when the federal government opens a big can of whoop ass on drunk drivers.

“Assault weapons are not the weapons of choice among drug dealers, gang members or criminals in general. Assault weapons are used in about one-fifth of one percent (.20%) of all violent crimes and about one percent in gun crimes. It is estimated that from one to seven percent of all homicides are committed with assault weapons (rifles of any type are involved in three to four percent of all homicides). However a higher percentage are used in police homicides, roughly ten percent. (There has been no consistent trend in this rate from 1978 through 1996.) Between 1992 and 1996 less than 4% of mass murders, committed with guns, involved assault weapons. (Our deadliest mass murders have either involved arson or bombs.)

There are close to 4 million assault weapons in the U.S., which amounts to roughly 1.7% of the total gun stock”

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcassaul.html

Trash, you are clueless.


baltoadv
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 3:25 pm

actually, he gave away his bonafides saying Obama is a socialist. Do you know what socialism is?

Socialists don't try to save capitalist banks by giving them money. I'd rather he nationalize them, get rid of the crap they did, and then sell them again.


akiceman
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 3:39 pm

How to Change your Identity AND Erase your Debt!: required reading for wingnut republicans?

LOL! That's great! America F#!K YEAH!


Susan
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 3:49 pm

I kind of like the one about war profiteering. Haliburton anyone?

People really do need to understand the difference between the economic aspects of socialism (not really so scary) and the political dangers of overt, exclusionary nationalism. Only those who don't know or don't care to know would fail to see the dangerous nationalistic agenda in the above list. If you want to compare that part of the agenda to a US politician it would most definitely be George W Bush and a big chunk of Real America.

There are a lot of political and economic systems that sound great on paper. And they are. Then there's the reality of how it plays out. Power, greed, self-interest, hatred, and ignorance can corrupt even the noblest of ideals.

Perhaps the key point to make about this or any program is that someone gets to decide the definition of citizen. In Hitler's case, he simply excluded large segments of the population from that definition effectively removing their rights. Read between the lines.

We have a beautiful and powerful Constitution here in the United States, but The Patriot Act, in one stroke of a pen, took away very basic rights in the name of the security of the nation. A politicized judicial system allows this to happen. Food for thought.

Since it appears to matter, I am a strong supporter of President Obama.


yolfer
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 4:40 pm

The photo with a caption “Some good deals on ammo.” shows magazines (which hold ammo), but no actual ammo.


yolfer
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 4:41 pm

I sorta take it back, there's some Wolf ammo in the background.


Educated
Comment posted April 10, 2009 @ 5:31 pm

Oooooooo! Scarit!!


APoliticsNow!» Blog Archive » Glenn Beck on Fox: The militia movement will be televised
Pingback posted April 10, 2009 @ 7:02 pm

[...] guns, and the perennial ‘classic,’ the “U.S. militaman’s handbook.”  See fourth photo down in this post from David [...]


Glenn Beck on Fox: The militia movement will be televised | Bloggers For Change
Pingback posted April 10, 2009 @ 7:04 pm

[...] guns, and the perennial ‘classic,’ the “U.S. militaman’s handbook.”  See fourth photo down in this post from David [...]


Glenn Beck on Fox: The militia movement will be televised | News Fu
Pingback posted April 10, 2009 @ 7:08 pm

[...] the “U.S. militaman’s handbook.”  See fourth photo down in this post from David Weigel. These bloodsucker vampires are not going to be satisfied with just sucking the [...]


American Berserk, 4/10 edition « Rortybomb
Pingback posted April 10, 2009 @ 8:18 pm

[...] something perfectly formatted for the internet, click through for his photo essay; everything in the photos is described in the article, but it is far more jarring to actually see [...]


Drasties - Dutch on the World - World on the Dutch
Pingback posted April 10, 2009 @ 9:10 pm

[...] Scenes From the Real America addthis_pub = ‘washingtonindependent’; [...]


Scared of Obama
Comment posted April 11, 2009 @ 2:03 pm

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the many similarities between Obama and Hitler.


xxx
Comment posted April 11, 2009 @ 5:52 pm

They all have poopypants


ooo
Comment posted April 11, 2009 @ 5:53 pm

Never vote for a Republican


internetto
Comment posted April 11, 2009 @ 5:55 pm

Republicans goosestep because they have poopypants.


John
Comment posted April 12, 2009 @ 1:22 pm

Laast time I checked, it wasn't Bible-thumplng conservitives burning autos & breaking windiws the last time the World Trade Organization came to town, was it? By the way, you enjoyed the shoot, didn't ya? Go ahead, admit it!


John
Comment posted April 12, 2009 @ 1:26 pm

By the way, if ya _REALLY_ want to see a case of poopypants, ever seen a photo of Harry Ried? that look? just sayin'……………


Timothy McVeigh, the Radical Right and Glenn Beck | Bloggers For Change
Pingback posted April 12, 2009 @ 9:02 pm

[...] Vampire Killer 2000 is still floating about the fetid ponds of the radical right. Dave Weigel of the Washington Independent recently took photos at a gun show, including this [...]


rev.paperboy
Comment posted April 15, 2009 @ 9:16 pm

So you need an AK-47 to go after groundhogs? A submachine gun to fend off rabid skunks? There is absolutely no reason for civilians to own military weapons. Not one of the people at that shoot has any reason to own an automatic weapon.


wantsometea
Comment posted April 16, 2009 @ 10:17 am

I live in Louisville. My district has a democratic representative in the house. We have a thriving culture for music and arts. And, apparently, we like things that go boom. We're celebrating the opening of our Derby festival this weekend with a 45-minute fireworks extravaganza. We enjoy watching, hearing, and feeling canon-fire and heavy artillery destroy barrels of gas. I celebrated my birthday watching a building implode in downtown Louisville and I've attended Phish shows, and I'm fortunate to be able to do both as I please. There are nut jobs, racists, and trailer trash in any community. But I'd like to consider some of these folks defenders of the freedoms which some are so happy to give up.


jayzmom
Comment posted April 16, 2009 @ 6:21 pm

Mr Weigel should come to our Meade County Fair this July. I'm sure he won't be a bit interested in taking pictures of all the fun family events, but he can probably find a booth selling rebel flags, some tattooed people, and gosh if he's lucky, maybe the KKK will be there. He can take a few pictures of these images, twist things around, and write another story portraying his fair-going experience as a scene from the “real America.”


jodi
Comment posted April 17, 2009 @ 6:50 pm

disturbing bunch of sad people.


Umox Blog :: :: Scenes From the Real America
Pingback posted April 18, 2009 @ 11:21 am

[...] See the original post:  Scenes From the Real America [...]


evil bob
Comment posted April 20, 2009 @ 8:28 am

“Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.”

hey that's really progressive !


Mad Farmer
Comment posted April 24, 2009 @ 9:12 am

Left-wing protesters at economic summits and GOP conventions are unarmed and nonviolent. Occassionally, someone breaks a window or something stupid like that. How is that more harmful than a multitude of guns? I support gun rights and so does the President. It's concerning to me that the President is compared to Hitler when he's taken steps to restore Constitutional protections (1st, 4th, 5th, 8th Amendments+habeus corpus) that Bush undermined. Not exactly what a fascist or Nazi would do.

I do agree that the Feds would have no reason to open a can of whoop ass on those folks unless they do something stupid and illegal. Drunk drivers kill way more people than guns do, which isn't to say that guns don't kill a lot of people.


Renata Nicole
Comment posted May 1, 2009 @ 5:30 pm

Sad thing is that those idiots at FOX News are feeding these people this propaganda?


Doug Roberts
Comment posted May 1, 2009 @ 6:29 pm

Why would anyone pay $120 for 75 rounds? Just buy 30 rounds 3 times = 90 rounds for $120.


Shawn
Comment posted May 1, 2009 @ 6:38 pm

Offensive.

If I saw someone wearing these T-shirts, I'd deck the fat wimp Republitard. And then I'd keep on a–punchin'.


Cstrut
Comment posted May 1, 2009 @ 9:39 pm

Wow, America we really need to make this sort of behaviour so unaccaptable that these freaks have to learn to live within a civilized society. This is just a wierd event full of very disturbed individuals


fingrpik
Comment posted May 1, 2009 @ 10:57 pm

Think you might be overdue for an eye exam? But yes, there sure are a lot of similarities: For example, Obama was a professor of constitutional law. Hitler was a house painter. Obama is sane. Hitler was a psychopath. Etc. etc.
And no, you're not the only one. Let's see – Approximately 20% of all Americans are Republicans. Of these, maybe a few thousand are right-wing zealots. And in that group, there are probably a few dozen who are certifiably ignorant, xenophobic, bigoted Yahoos.
Pretty exclusive club you belong to…….


PlacitasRoy
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 6:30 am

Uglier the gun, smaller the dick.


Dave
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 7:20 am

Yeah! That's the personal accountability we hear about so often!


Big E
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 8:19 am

Thank god there are patriots out there showing the loony left that our 2nd amendment rights are taken seriously by the MAJORITY of the citizens. Dont be skeered little libs we are just practicing up!!


Libertius
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 9:40 am

Great idea. That would make you one of them.


Zoff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 9:59 am

I just love some of the comments from you “peace” loving libs…

“If I saw someone wearing these T-shirts, I'd deck the fat wimp Republitard. And then I'd keep on a–punchin'.”

I guess it's easy to run your teeth and puff up on the internet since you do not have to face the person you are so poorly trying to insult…. which is the Dems way! Only attack when you know you can run away. Pathetic!


papa996tt
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 10:29 am

No you wouldn't punch him Shawnda…you'd wisely keep your piehole closed until you got home and logged onto the internet.


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 10:34 am

Oh tough words from the McVeigh lovers. And we're supposed to think your ilk represents America?

Whatever. The patriot movement will do what it did last time. Get big and mouthy until one of them cracks and commits an act of terrorism and a lot of innocent people get killed. And then every one of these “patriotic” Americans will suddenly pretend they had nothing to do with it.

History repeats itself. Whooda thunk?


papa996tt
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 10:38 am

Regarding Mr.David Weigel's effeminate commentary? Don't worry Dave, there will always be men who stand in the gap for you. There will always be someone else's husband to show up at your house when you dial 911 and do those things you are unwilling and incapable of doing for yourself and your loved ones. How reassuring it must be to be the wife of a man who is afraid of firearms and afraid of peaceful Americans who know how to use them.


papa996tt
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 10:43 am

For a 'history buff', you are clearly quite ignorant.


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 10:54 am

Oooh, name calling! That's the best you got?

Let me guess, the guys with the Black Helicopters just MADE it look like Tim McVeigh blew up that day care center to make the patriots look bad.

Wow, I just made a tinfoil hat theory. Can I join you guys?


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 10:58 am

Seriously, “ignorant” is the best you can muster?

At least you spelled it right. Kudos.


BigErn
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 10:59 am

The funny thing is that these guys are hysterical about Obama being the next “Hitler” but at the same time a significant contigent of these guys idolize Hitler. Just like all those tea-baggers, fresh from recieving a tax cut from Obama, were out claiming that Obama was “raising taxes.” So, is cognitave dissonance like an addictive drug? Or are these guys really so ignorant that they don't realize the ludricrous notions they're putting forth?


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 11:09 am

That's a hoot. When I was a kid, the town cop was somebody we all trusted. WWII vet but didn't talk about it a bit. He did the dirty work too, but I remember he used his guns for hunting, not worshipping. Of course he retired, then got replaced by some vo-tech trained SWAT-wannabe. That guy wore FOUR guns on his person at all times in a town of 800 people. Was a big patriot type too.

Course he cracked one day, beat his wife and urinated on his kids that he locked in his homemade jail cell but I'm sure that had very little to do with being an unstable person, right?


JVD
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 11:28 am

The democrap propaganda machine is in overdrive these days..

If someone tried to tell you you couldn't write an article without a permit, censored what you write , or can't speak your voice how militant would you people be?

The 2nd Amendment was just as important to our founding fathers as the 1st. Why are people braindead now, where they can't understand this? I'll be exercising my 2A rights regardless of what you say, and I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I'm all the more smarter than you are.


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 11:49 am

Just the the rethuglican machine. Your point, JVD?

Congratulations on being “smart” JVD, I'm guessing your mama had to tell you that a lot when you were growing up. You're a bit lacking in the “analogies” department though. See the problem is, the *article* doesn't kill three cops in PA who have to respond to a “domestic” call. The really big problem is that all gun owners obey the law right up until the moment they suddenly don't and then all of us as a society have to pick up the bits. But you're right, it's a right. guaranteed in this nation.

So in the end, I'm not anti-2nd amendment. I'm just anti gun-worshipper, I grew up with guns. They're a tool, not a way of life unless you're kind of unhinged to begin with.


HD Rider
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 12:15 pm

This has been going on for years; nothing illegal just fun. Maybe not your kind of fun; but perhaps that needs to be made illegal as well.

Shawn:
Offensive.

If I saw someone wearing these T-shirts, I'd deck the fat wimp Republitard. And then I'd keep on a–punchin'.

Shawn,
I find your threats to be a lot more offensive than what they are doing. What they are doing is legal; what you are saying is illegal and also shows a remarkable immaturity..

Have you considered an anger management class for the mouthy types?

Or if you really mean it; y'all come see us sometime.


JVD
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 12:15 pm

Your hollow insults do nothing but show how immature you are.

Many if not most most criminals who commit gun crimes are already banned from owning guns. What you have is an enforcement issue. The laws in place are already burdensome on law abiding citizens, and criminals don't care about the law. Silly concept, but its true!

You make it sound like all gun hobbyists are insane. Obviously this is not the case. There are gearheads, techies, sports fanatics, and a myriad of other groups and types of people who are deeply devoted to their respective hobbies. How many of these people are looked at as “unhinged?”


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 12:41 pm

@JVD

You're right and I apologize. My initial comment was a cheap shot which I regretted the second I posted it.. You are also right, of course with much the rest of your statement. There is NOTHING wrong with guns in and of themselves — as I said I grew up with them and before the kids I used to hunt a lot.

However, from personal experience some people get so wrapped up in the hobby that they suffer in other ways. My bro is way around the bend. Lives in squalor with his family but has a $50k plus gun collection. In that neck of the woods, $20k buys a very nice house and $10k is a living wage for a year. Wasn't like Dad was that way. He had a shotgun for duck season and a rifle for deer hunting and a 0.22 for target shooting and teaching the kids. But it seems to have become a bit more involved…

And there is the question of snapping, which is my way of telling you that yes you are allowed guns but implicitly it means I have to trust you and frankly I don't. I'd feel a little better if the responsible 99.99% of the community were a little more clear in defining the boundaries for the 0.01% with more questionable judgement. Instead we get loads and loads of militia stuff like the pics above. Look, last time around with Clinton it grew pretty large and then faded away when people were shown the consequences in OK. It'll make me very sick the day it happens again and given the levels it's going to happen again.


GPWASR10
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 1:06 pm

History Buff, you are the very caricature of the Liberal Left. You beat around the bush until you're blue in the face but refuse to acknowledge any real factual data on gun ownership in the United States. You equate things with only the extreme cases that back your argument, and disiss any hard facts that shoot it down. Hell, your worse the a Christain, man.

Alcohol (85,000), tobacco products (440,000, and second hand smoke is attributed to about 40,000 additional deaths per year) and cars (42,000) kill more people, not only in total numbers, but per capita, then firearms (32,000) in this country (Of which there are an estimated 2,000,000 firearms in private hands in this country, and this is conservative at best, vs. 65 Million Automobiles).

But I don't see anyone of you “safety first” bleeding hearts trying to ban deadly “Assault Cars”, “Assault Cigarettes”, or “Assault Mer lot”. Oh you try to raise awareness of it sure, but no out and out bans. But on the other hand you preach ignorance of facts on one hand, and out right lies on the other when it comes to Citizen Owned Firearms.

Let me ask you this about your local Supercop who you seem so fond of. In your estimation, is it that policemen's (or any policemen's) responsibility to protect you and every other person in your town? Cause acording to the US supreme court it's actually NOT his responsibility…

Barillari v. City of Milwaukee, 533 N.W.2d 759
Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616
DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services
Ford v. Town of Grafton, 693 N.E.2d 1047
Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1

So,in your world then, if it is not your responsibility, and not the polices either… then who's responsibility is it?


papa996tt
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 2:31 pm

Should I heap you into the pile of libtard, granola eating, birkenstock wearing, foul smelling, pot smoking, VW van driving, rent-a-protestor type lunatics from the left? It seems that is what you are doing when you suggest anyone enjoying a day at the range is somehow associated with a fucktard like McVeigh.

But hey, this is the internet where losers tend to run their mouths and say things to folks they would never say when found to be within arms reach.

Enjoy your misery my friend…


DaveinNorthridge
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 3:05 pm

It takes a special kind of person to read a first amendment complaint as an attack on the second amendment. I didn't see anything in this article that suggested that anyone was attacking gun ownership. As the NRA always says, “Guns don't kill people, people kill people,” and this is a very nice example of some of the people who might want to kill people with their legal guns.

GPWASR10, you yourself are the very caricature of the NRA member.


GPWASR10
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 3:32 pm

Care to refute my arguments there, Dave? Or is this just your “feelings” on the matter?


Military Nurse
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 3:49 pm

These folks are just a bunch of ignorant red-necks who have saved all year to come here and show off. Plus they hate anybody who is not white and like them. Poor fools. One has to pity them, but remember that there are Timothy McVeys among them or in the making.


papa996tt
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 3:55 pm

“and this is a very nice example of some of the people who might want to kill people with their legal guns.”

Well Dave, do you use your vehicle to cruise playgrounds and parks in an effort to kidnap and molest small children? Your twisted logic regarding gun owners makes me think something similar could be assumed about you based upon owning a vehicle.


papa996tt
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

It takes a great deal of imagination to come to that conclusion based upon a biased report from some no-name journalist

Time to lay off the percocet dear…


nonya
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 4:07 pm

WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE ………………


latinorepub86
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 4:12 pm

I LOVE THE DOUBLE STANDARD!

The liberal left has posters of George W. Bush compared to Hitler/monkies constantly at their events.

But if you compare Obama to Hitler, oh lord you're insulting the king himself.


GPWASR10
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 4:13 pm

So, you pity the fo' who mess with Obama? LOL


GPWASR10
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 4:17 pm

HOW DARE YOU INSULT OUR DEAR LEADER! Just for that I am going to rename my local Junior High “Barack Obama Junior High”…. 'cause he has accomplished so much… haven't you heard?


-coleman
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 4:26 pm

Looks like fun. Sure there may be a couple vendors selling items with little taste, but for you fools that jump in and say “bunch of rednecks.”, you are just as ignorant. A bunch of collectors get together and shoot the big stuff in a controlled manner, even if you think it's some kind of illegal chaos. Some of those weapons are worth more money than you make in a year, and before you jump in and say “These should not be legal.” Go find out just how many firey hoops you need to jump through to actually legally own one, not to mention the cost. ATF file on record, 2×2″ picture, fingerprints, police background check…. Educate yourself on this BEFORE you try to dictate what others should and shouldn't own. Our legal guns kill less people than your coat hangars…


khrish
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 4:34 pm

Well I guess this is something speciall. A show of force that no one will take away their guns. It is pitiful to see this much ingnorance grouped in on place Well you know the Bush admin told them to keep their guns, we just want your freedoms and they gave them to him straight away. Wonders never cease.


papa996tt
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 5:05 pm

Hey khrishwhateverthefuk, you appear to be a bit on the mentally challenged side…I'm sorry life threw that at you.

At any rate, do you know anything about Knob Creek other than the photos dumbass posted above?

Do you know how much it costs to purchase an NFA firearm or device? $3500 to $100,000 out of pocket. Where do you think that money comes from and how much $$ do you think it costs to dump thousands of rounds down range in a controlled and legal fashion…just for fun?

When you do figure it out you might come to the conclusion that it aint bucktoothed, beer swillin' rednecks forking out this kind of cash. How about Lawyers, Doctors, Professionals from all walks of life spending their hard earned $$ to do what they like to do because it is, well how should I say it so you understand…okay here “it is fun and puts a smile on your face”

However, as a true believer I'm sure you will continue to use your mentally diseased mind and heap those you hate into one basket…much easier to marginalize a group that way, and make yourself fee superior to those whom you do not comprehend.

Enjoy your misery and remember; If you ever need help in an emergency, dial 911 and someone else's spouse will come save you.


latinorepub86
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 5:08 pm

Hey khrish,

What freedoms were “given away”? I'm still able to do everything I was doing back before George Bush

What freedom did George Bush take away from your lard ass? The right to eat 10 Big Macs?


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 5:19 pm

There is a distinct difference between “enjoying a day at the range” and deciding that only your gun can “set the country right again.” If you are truly dissociating yourself from the patriot movement, then we have no quarrel. However, if you seriously entertain the latter idea, then frankly I'm glad to have met you only on the internet because I know plenty of people like that and if you're looking for people who live in paranoid misery, that's them.


khrish
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 5:37 pm

I'm not into that superior thing. I don't care how much money you have or what title you hold, this is not the measure of a person. It is was pitiful to see a group of people so intent on keeping guns, hating and labeling people after people they obviously know nothing about, hand over their very precious American rights to keep some guns and seemingly without even realizing what they were doing. If you are stupid and backwards, having degrees and money only makes one stupid and backwards with MONEY. I don't suffer from delusions of grandeur and have no desire to feel myself superior. I know who I am and I don't have to put anyone else down to raise myself above. But thank you for feeling me superior.


khrish
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 5:39 pm

I won't count on it.


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 5:48 pm

Well, GPWSR10,

Congratulations, you're the reason the GOP is shrinking. Enjoy your permanent minority status there Trixie. We probably agree on 90% of the topics we could talk about, but my dislike for the patriot movement makes me some far leftie and triggers some kind of pre-conditioned attack stream that involves statistics that weren't relevant to a single thing I said.

All I did to set you off was to mention people IN MY EXPERIENCE and ON THE NEWS who just couldn't handle gun ownership or the constant stream of paranoia that pervades the far regions of the patriot world.

By the way, a well adjusted person would have probably said “so what, there are nuts in every group of people in the world. Most normal gun owners are not like that.”

It isn't hard to say, JVD said it and frankly he's right . However, you go off on some half-cocked line about how cops aren't there to protect us. I'm sure the professional police reading this really appreciate your take on that since I'm sure they've never sacrificed to protect people and told themselves, well because of “Bowers vs. DeVito” I'm covered.

If the time comes where I have to act to protect me and mine, I'm ready. However, unlike the impression that YOU leave, I don't spend lots of time polishing my gun and waiting for the chance.


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 6:00 pm

Well, in MY family it came by my brother making his family live in an absolute hovel But man, he has some sweet little collection of NFA guns and he's gonna need them when the revolution comes. He's gonna make the liberals pay for the fact he lives in a hovel you see.

Gun worship makes one sick as well, but since it involves saying something negative about SOME people who own guns it is HERESY!


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 6:03 pm

Thank you for your admission that Obama is not taking your guns away or calling in the black helicopters or whatever sets the little patriot hearts atwitter these days.

Too bad you didn't talk to that clown Poplawski about this before he killed those three cops.


leatherzombie
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 6:18 pm

Talk about ignorant you Just call 10s of 1000s of hardworking,tax paying,lawfully acting people Poor fools that hate anybody who is not white, then you have the nerve to say remember that there are Timothy McVeys among them or in the making. that is like saying all black people are crack dealers or all wemon are bitches you can not support your comments with any fact,that makes you nothing more than a stereotyping fool yourself that I pity.


History Buff
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 6:20 pm

Wow coleman,

That was really a good well reasoned bit up to the “coat hangars” comment. You see, coat hangers were used when only the wealthy could afford to send their daughters away “on vacation” to handle that little problem. Nobody likes “coat hangers” except people who have large front closets. If we had the “morning after” pill widely available and taught sensible contraception, nobody WOULD need abortions. But, that is unfair to Blastocyst-Americans!


Dave in Northridge
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 7:44 pm

Actually, papa996t, I don't even own a vehicle. How are the walls of your own glass house holding up?


Mike
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 9:56 pm

Wow. What a nice liberal twist. Way to show Knob Creek the way you want people to see it.


jlbraun
Comment posted May 2, 2009 @ 10:12 pm

As long as they're not hurting anyone, I as a liberal Democrat have no problem with it. So you were able to find gun owners that hold reprehensible opinions. So what? I shoot with two gay men, four Buddhists, one Wiccan, six Democrats, three older black women, and one lonely white Christian Republican. I'd like to own a Russian PKM someday.

Gun owners are a diverse group. It's a disservice to present them only in a way that confirms your own prejudices and bigotry. I'm ashamed of my fellow liberals sometimes.

Given that Obama has renounced his support of the assault weapons ban per the WH website (yes, really – it's gone), isn't all this just silly handwringing at this point? Time to move on, the culture-war empty-politics era died in 2004, when Bill Clinton said that pushing gun bans lost us Congress and then two presidencies.


Typical Democrat
Comment posted May 3, 2009 @ 2:56 am

I can't believe they are comparing Obama to Hitler. Hitler was an insane racist who wanted to kill off an entire populace. Obama is black and its a known fact that black people can't be racists. Obama is a great man. He understands the the Second amendment is an outdated piece of literature and needs to be removed from the constitution. He only wants to take away dangerous freedoms. What do you need a gun for anyway? If someone is so far down on his luck that he has to steal, we should give what we can to that person so he doesn't have to. We need more social programs to help these people who rape and kill, they need our help, not to be punished or killed. The people have spoken. Its time this country moved into socialism like President Obama wants. socialism just means “all for one, and one for all”, its not a dirty word. People have no need for freedoms in a perfect society. We all need to understand that only the police and the military should be able to own firearms in a modern society. I would feel much safer knowing buns are banned. If owning guns was illegal, no one would ever be robbed at gunpoint again. No more home break-ins, no more killings. We should also think seriously about banning cars as they are killing the planet. people should be doled out jobs by the government so they can work closer to home, this would reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Everyone should make the same amount of money whether you work at McDonalds or are a doctor or lawyer. Obama is on the right track by taking money away from the rich and giving it to the poor. Its not their fault they are poor, its all a conspiracy by the corporations controlled by white men trying to keep the black man down. Just look at the prisons! They are full of black men and Hispanic men, most of whom are innocent of any wrongdoing. They are crushed by the corporate machine controlled by whites and they are forced to steal and do drugs because thats all they are allowed to do. Obama understands this. We need to give the black men and Mexican migrant laborers more social programs to help them keep up with the white man. When a black man rapes your white daughter, you don't have the right to kill him, you need to understand his pain. You need to find out why he did it, and cure him so he doesn't do it again. Its a proven fact that prisons don't work. Crime is a mental illness that needs to be cured. If children were taught how bad guns and violence is in school we wouldn't have violence on the streets. We should seriously consider having the state take away all children and move them into boarding schools so the bad influences of the parents can be taken out of the picture. If the government taught the children, and forced them to learn the correct way to think we wouldn't be in this mess. Obama is the kind of great man who could implement a bold plan like that. Just look at the way he has been handling himself in the middle east. He bowed before the Saudi king. This shows he respects the kings authority and now the Muslims will listen to him. If he keeps bowing to them and giving them what they want all terrorist activity will halt. Muslim terrorists are just freedom fighters. We need to help them find a political solution. Obama has a rapport with them as he burned American flags right beside them in his youth. He understood even then that this country is broken and needs to be more sensitive to the Muslims, blacks, Mexicans, and other minorities. Our country was founded by immigrants, somehow we have lost our way. Obama will set things right. He has already imported hundreds of Muslims into this country who were called terrorists by others. They are living among us now and they are not causing any problems because they respect our president so much. One day our country will be full of Muslims that were previously thought of as terrorists and they will help our society along with their views melding with our views. And since they will no longer be able to own guns or bombs or knives or sharp sticks they won't ever be a problem. Because once you take these things away people can no longer harm the society and everything is better for all. I praise Obama and understand how hard it must be for him to see these people who just don't understand you need to give up some of your freedoms to be safe. Freedom is overrated anyway.


History Buff
Comment posted May 3, 2009 @ 5:14 am

Well, as you see from “Typical Democrat's” post above the culture wars are not over and the
“patriots” think the country is going to h*ll in a handbasket. Only a matter of time till one of them gets so high off their own propoganda that they decide to go buy a truckload of fertilizer and make it right.


yankeedog
Comment posted May 3, 2009 @ 5:21 am

If your scard of what you see, stay away and hide in your basement and call the cops to protect you from the bad guys that just broke into your house and is killing your family while your dialing the phone!!!


Jerry S
Comment posted May 3, 2009 @ 6:48 am

Interesting comments below:::
The true facts are that the author did not do the whole event.
What happened at the subgun match or the night shoot. Obviously these were more then he could report on with a liberal slant. Of course he could not let the world know of the saying of the pledge to our flag. Did not hear the comment that most NFA owners are very respectfull of their country, the constitution and the first Amendment that the libs stand behind.
NFA owner and proud of it.


Ben dover
Comment posted May 3, 2009 @ 1:39 pm

Regarding the Obama/Hitler shirt: how would you feel about it if instead of Obama it was Reagan?


RKrupski
Comment posted May 3, 2009 @ 3:31 pm

The writer said:

“I spent Saturday at the bi-annual Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot, right outside of Louisville, Ky. Gun enthusiasts of all stripes were there — from the National Rifle Association and sportsmen to militia members to white supremacists and Obama birthers.”

Where, pray tell, were the “white supremacists”? Or, is that just a catch-all phrase used to describe anyone who isn't in love with Barack Hussein Obama?


Iron Horse Tamer
Comment posted May 3, 2009 @ 9:57 pm

The seem to be anti-Hitler and anti-Obama. Wait…both socialists. Got it. What was your point?


MGProf
Comment posted May 4, 2009 @ 12:34 pm

I trust you were named “God” by someone in authority? What behavior- shooting legally owned firearms in a controlled and legal fashion as a right under the second amendment or expressing political opinions (however unlike your own) in a free manner as a right under the first amendment? I don't agree with many of the views expressed here or in the pictures from the article. I do feel that it is very self-centered and elitist for someone to think they are so superior as to be the sole arbiter of what is or is not acceptable in society…a real stretch for someone who can't even spell “unacceptable.”


Skippy
Comment posted May 4, 2009 @ 2:35 pm

Or the black fellow that killed the 4 cops in oakland after raping the 12 year-old because he was upset at finding that life as a convicted felon wasn't going to be all seashells and pony rides.

If he could have just held on until barry set up the OCS for his new civilian defense force. Some discipline and mentorship, in addition to the raping and cop-killing skills he learned in the can, would have worked wonders.


Sirius
Comment posted May 4, 2009 @ 7:46 pm

I certainly don't think the analogy would be nearly as accurate, but I respect other points of view(that's me. I know most others on both sides don't feel the same). For all the lipservice we pay to coming together as a nation, we are intensely polarized, and becoming moreso every year. The answer is to shrink the federal government and restore the power of the states to its rightful condition. Was Reagan the new Hitler? Is Obama? Who cares if the states are the principal governing body?


Jerry S
Comment posted May 5, 2009 @ 9:33 am

In regard to Tee shirts being ofensive. What could be more offensive than the one saying
“I got pregnant so I could have an Abortion”
Some day the liberal slant will look at their own back yard for the stuff we are ofended by.


Bob Davis
Comment posted May 5, 2009 @ 11:23 pm

Great to see real Americans…I live in California and can't wait to get to hell out of here…I may move to Washington soon, looks like my kind of neighborhood…I'll come by and say hello…
Bob Davis


Richard Fisher
Comment posted May 10, 2009 @ 2:15 pm

My belief:The historical definition of Natural Born,
“Parents citizens, born in country”,
as recorded in the writings of John Jay in Federalist Papers, the Congressional Record March 26, 1790, the source book, 'Law of Nations' and numerous other places. The purpose was to exclude persons that could reasonably have divided loyalties from the Presidency and being Commander in Chief of the armed forces.

I am a concerned serious citizen who has the perspective of a person who worked overseas for a large international engineering and construction company, as a worker and supervisor of civilian expatriate employees. Had to know the customs, laws, rules and a lot of do and don't to keep myself or others out of serious trouble. Two of the many countries were Kenya and Indonesia.
When Obama was elected to the U S Senate there were reports he was not a citizen of the US and that he was born in Kenya, where I worked on a refinery project for Royal Dutch Shell. People, who I worked with long enough to know them to be reliable, quoted publish articles in which his paternal grandmother bragged that her grandson, the Senator, being born in Mombasa, she further stated that she and his 1/2 sister were present at the birth. There was also an article in the same local weekly newspaper quoting from the Mombasa Coast Hospital birth records.

Did not think to much about it, figured if true, it would come out.

Later, I had a chance to examine his books, “Dreams from My Father” and “The Audacity of Hope.” and I found numerous things damaging to U S citizenship claims, and now that he occupies the Presidency, the Constitutional requirement to be Natural Born.
1. He went to school in Indonesia at a time when it was my understanding that it was necessary to be a citizen of Indonesia to go to school there.
2. He was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soeotoro, as I understand the adoption law at that time, this law made him an Indonesian citizen when adopted, loosing all other citizenships, dual citizenship was not allowed.
3. In the adoption procedure his prior sir name was lost and his sir name was legally changed to Soetoro, and his parents gave him the first name Barry according to available written records.
4. He said he traveled to Pakistan during a period of martial law. My experience was no person with a U S passport could get a Visa or would be permitted entry (except diplomatic). I could not get in with a U S passport. I conclude that he used some other passport, logically an Indonesian passport since he was legally an Indonesian citizen due to the adoption law in Indonesia.

The only logical conclusions I can draw from the above:

His legal name is Barry Soetoro, and a citizen of Indonesia.

He is not U S Citizen, Therefore could not be a Natural Born US Citizen either.

I believe his place of birth was Kenya, but points 1. through 4. above make it mute plus there are several other reasons, below are two of these:

His father, Barrack Obama, Sr. was a British (Kenya) citizen, under the historical definition of Natural Born, having a non citizen parent is disqualifying.

Also his father, Barrack Obama, Sr. being a British (Kenya) citizen, made Obama,Jr. a British citizen at birth regardless of where born according to an 1948 English law . Ever if he was born in the U. S. he had dual citizenship which also is disqualifying.

A side issue:

His Mother’s age at his birth, caused a Title 8 US Code legal impediment for filing a request for “Certificate of Live Birth”. This would suggest that this is the reason that such a request has not been released or the original hospital record released.

In order to fully resolve his eligibility question all of the following records must also be released. “Full Transparency” as guaranteed during the Presidential campaign is required, if there is nothing to hide why have they not been released, should be released immediately.

1. Occidental College records, 2. Columbia College records, 3. Columbia Thesis paper, 4. Harvard College records, 5. Selective Service Registration, ( not the forged record released), 6. Medical records in US, 7. Illinois State Senate records, 8. Law practice client list, 9. Certified Copy of original hospital (vault) Birth certificate, 10. Copy of the request for the “Certificate of Live Birth” , 11. Claimed Harvard Law Review articles published, 12. Claimed University of Chicago scholarly articles, 13. Record of Christian Baptism or Muslim blessing at birth in Kenya hospital by attending Inman (who I think I met while there and I can not find now), 14. Adoption documents from Indonesia, 15. Indonesian passport , 16. Mombasa Kenya hospital records that are specifically sealed by Kenya government.

If these had been released all questions past and the growing flood of law suits would go away.
I am not an attorney or a part of any legal action against him or the DNC.
I am plain ordinary independant citizen who has questions, the same questions that millions of other informed citizens are now asking.
A growing number of people believe that he is an unconstitutional usurper of the Presidency of the United State and therefore guilty of many criminal acts.

He should release the documents or resign admitting gross fraud, being ineligible to hold or run for any government elective office in the United States.

Now ! Keep in mind as you consider these questions and observations. I voted for him and wish him well. The above are legitiment questions that are festering and will continue to permit people to ask questions that are not answered. We need the documents.
The longer they remain secret the more it appears that there is someting very serious to hide. If these documents are really a danger there is a possibility that some unscrupulus person could get copies and use them for blackmail.


Richard Fisher
Comment posted May 10, 2009 @ 9:15 pm

My belief:The historical definition of Natural Born,
“Parents citizens, born in country”,
as recorded in the writings of John Jay in Federalist Papers, the Congressional Record March 26, 1790, the source book, 'Law of Nations' and numerous other places. The purpose was to exclude persons that could reasonably have divided loyalties from the Presidency and being Commander in Chief of the armed forces.

I am a concerned serious citizen who has the perspective of a person who worked overseas for a large international engineering and construction company, as a worker and supervisor of civilian expatriate employees. Had to know the customs, laws, rules and a lot of do and don't to keep myself or others out of serious trouble. Two of the many countries were Kenya and Indonesia.
When Obama was elected to the U S Senate there were reports he was not a citizen of the US and that he was born in Kenya, where I worked on a refinery project for Royal Dutch Shell. People, who I worked with long enough to know them to be reliable, quoted publish articles in which his paternal grandmother bragged that her grandson, the Senator, being born in Mombasa, she further stated that she and his 1/2 sister were present at the birth. There was also an article in the same local weekly newspaper quoting from the Mombasa Coast Hospital birth records.

Did not think to much about it, figured if true, it would come out.

Later, I had a chance to examine his books, “Dreams from My Father” and “The Audacity of Hope.” and I found numerous things damaging to U S citizenship claims, and now that he occupies the Presidency, the Constitutional requirement to be Natural Born.
1. He went to school in Indonesia at a time when it was my understanding that it was necessary to be a citizen of Indonesia to go to school there.
2. He was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soeotoro, as I understand the adoption law at that time, this law made him an Indonesian citizen when adopted, loosing all other citizenships, dual citizenship was not allowed.
3. In the adoption procedure his prior sir name was lost and his sir name was legally changed to Soetoro, and his parents gave him the first name Barry according to available written records.
4. He said he traveled to Pakistan during a period of martial law. My experience was no person with a U S passport could get a Visa or would be permitted entry (except diplomatic). I could not get in with a U S passport. I conclude that he used some other passport, logically an Indonesian passport since he was legally an Indonesian citizen due to the adoption law in Indonesia.

The only logical conclusions I can draw from the above:

His legal name is Barry Soetoro, and a citizen of Indonesia.

He is not U S Citizen, Therefore could not be a Natural Born US Citizen either.

I believe his place of birth was Kenya, but points 1. through 4. above make it mute plus there are several other reasons, below are two of these:

His father, Barrack Obama, Sr. was a British (Kenya) citizen, under the historical definition of Natural Born, having a non citizen parent is disqualifying.

Also his father, Barrack Obama, Sr. being a British (Kenya) citizen, made Obama,Jr. a British citizen at birth regardless of where born according to an 1948 English law . Ever if he was born in the U. S. he had dual citizenship which also is disqualifying.

A side issue:

His Mother’s age at his birth, caused a Title 8 US Code legal impediment for filing a request for “Certificate of Live Birth”. This would suggest that this is the reason that such a request has not been released or the original hospital record released.

In order to fully resolve his eligibility question all of the following records must also be released. “Full Transparency” as guaranteed during the Presidential campaign is required, if there is nothing to hide why have they not been released, should be released immediately.

1. Occidental College records, 2. Columbia College records, 3. Columbia Thesis paper, 4. Harvard College records, 5. Selective Service Registration, ( not the forged record released), 6. Medical records in US, 7. Illinois State Senate records, 8. Law practice client list, 9. Certified Copy of original hospital (vault) Birth certificate, 10. Copy of the request for the “Certificate of Live Birth” , 11. Claimed Harvard Law Review articles published, 12. Claimed University of Chicago scholarly articles, 13. Record of Christian Baptism or Muslim blessing at birth in Kenya hospital by attending Inman (who I think I met while there and I can not find now), 14. Adoption documents from Indonesia, 15. Indonesian passport , 16. Mombasa Kenya hospital records that are specifically sealed by Kenya government.

If these had been released all questions past and the growing flood of law suits would go away.
I am not an attorney or a part of any legal action against him or the DNC.
I am plain ordinary independant citizen who has questions, the same questions that millions of other informed citizens are now asking.
A growing number of people believe that he is an unconstitutional usurper of the Presidency of the United State and therefore guilty of many criminal acts.

He should release the documents or resign admitting gross fraud, being ineligible to hold or run for any government elective office in the United States.

Now ! Keep in mind as you consider these questions and observations. I voted for him and wish him well. The above are legitiment questions that are festering and will continue to permit people to ask questions that are not answered. We need the documents.
The longer they remain secret the more it appears that there is someting very serious to hide. If these documents are really a danger there is a possibility that some unscrupulus person could get copies and use them for blackmail.


ChrisP11155
Comment posted July 8, 2009 @ 6:49 pm

oh jesus, can you assholes get any more paranoid, afraid or stupid? I guess this is what they mean when they speak about “the ignorant masses”. Okay birther's answer me this…if Obama really WASN'T a citizen (can't believe I'm indulging you) wouldn't the national GOP be all over it like flies on a turdblossom? I mean, just saying, but Karl Rove has never been known for clean tactics or observance of decency when dealing with Democrats. Also, the Obama-Hitler comparison is just plain stupid. May I remind you that Hitler's way of bringing the German economy back was privatizing the factories and then paying them to make weapons? Sounds like a “strong national defense”. Hitler also continuously courted religious Germans, villified socialists (who were amongst the first to be sent to CONCENTRATION camp) and considered all leftist beliefs to be part of a “jewish conspiracy”. Who talks like that? certainly not Obama :cough, cough much of the rightwing cough: excuse me. The point is, logic is a person's greatest gift against the spread of insanity and paranoia…and facts are the relief boat. You have neither….just biased hatred. Oh and if those REAL AMERICANS in Kentucky are such PATRIOTS, why were they flying the colors of the Confederacy and had many neo-nazis present…umm stop me if you've heard this one….but those two groups fought WARS with the US. So while I cannot bring myself to answer EVERY, SINGLE STUPID charge in this assholes post, I will say this: “A mind is a terrible thing to waste”. You're behind the gun on this one, you old wingnuts. Oh and Hitler and Reagan had plenty in common, hitler corporatized industry, that is he nationalized it, then made it quasi-private which of course is similar to the military industrial complex. He believed only in the rights of the few (sort of like rightwingers who seek to restore the WASP America of the pre-20th century). Hitler also believed in criminalizing dissent (Reagan didn't go this far, but he did seek to brand any dissenting voice and anti-american and turn an entire philosophy into something synonymous with a four letter word). Hitler was supported by business and opposed by unions (another concentration camp casualty, I'm sure Ollie North had ideas along this line). He hated freedom of the press and lifted all civil liberties (wingnuts only care about their guns of course, and the right in this country LOATHES freedom of the press). So in short on view after view (including anti-semitism, Ann Coulter and John Hagee are similar), Hitler was NOT a leftist, he was a rightist…hell even William Safire placed him on the right in his encyclopedia of politics. Yes I know…health care and environmentalism…need I remind you when Hitler was in office many righties cared about the environment and continued to until Reagan's nutty ass got to office. I can keep on and on and on about Hitler and the rightwing but I don't need to…everyone but dumb lardass Jonah Goldberg and his discredited “Liberal Fascism” book can plainly see this, even the remaining intelligista's on the right. Go back to school, at least graduate highschool rightwingers…and if not, then have the common courtesy to clean the scabs off of your knuckles before you opine again…you're like a bloody cult, only more demented. Also.


joeamerican
Comment posted July 23, 2009 @ 1:45 pm

I go every year, and I'm not prejudice. All races have bad and all have good. Knob Creek is fun, and funny to say, it's non-violent. Nobody gets hurt.
I'm also an employee of the U.S.,
Can you guess what agency I work for? See you at Knob Creek 2009 in October!


Name
Comment posted August 6, 2009 @ 12:20 am

Obama is going to take away our guns and force us to gay marry Muslims. Rise up if you don't want to convert to Islam and be forced to gay marry.


Katharine
Comment posted August 7, 2009 @ 5:42 pm

Yet another reminder of why I hate uneducated idiot rubes. These people don't know what socialism is; they make light of Nazism; they don't know about American citizenship law; their morals are dictated to them instead of them constructing them on their own (full disclosure: I'm an atheist); they're probably dumbass buy-bull thumpers. Get a fucking college degree and join the real world, kids, instead of the supposed apocalyptic future that you get a chubby just thinking about. The world is bigger than the United States. And science works.

I don't care what your stance is on guns; I'm one of the few liberals who is pro-gun.

But I'm ashamed to call fundies, birthers, and teabaggers human.


Katharine
Comment posted August 7, 2009 @ 5:46 pm

Actually, part of the reason I'm pro-gun is so that, in a pinch, if it ever came down to it, I could defend myself against idiots such as these.

Oh yes, I am willing to use lethal force to protect my freedom to be an atheist, sexual equality, reproductive rights including the right to an abortion if I ever need one (which hopefully I'll never need), et cetera.


luckbfern
Comment posted August 14, 2009 @ 3:20 am

I love that “Hitler gave great speeches too…” shirt. Reagan also gave great speeches. Ergo, he's also Hitler.


luckbfern
Comment posted August 14, 2009 @ 3:22 am

I totally wanna gay marry muslims. But i'll only do it if my grandma gets euthanized with a taser, since there will be no more guns.


Ellid
Comment posted August 15, 2009 @ 11:26 pm

You may be a senior citizen, sir, but you are an uneducated idiot. NONE of the birthers' assertions are true, and you should be ashamed of yourself for being so disloyal to the country and its institutions.


Ellid
Comment posted August 15, 2009 @ 11:27 pm

The neo-Nazis, for one. Wake up!


Ellid
Comment posted August 15, 2009 @ 11:34 pm

If they respected the Constitution they would not own anything connected with the evil that is Nazi Germany, let alone dressed their children and themselves in Afrika Corps uniforms. Nor would true patriots have tolerated anything connected with that crooked cross at their event.

My uncles and my father fought against the Nazis. They were true patriots who risked their lives to stop true genocide. This sort of event would have made them ill.

Wake up, America! Fascism is closer than you think!


d
Comment posted August 18, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

You have a right to SPEW whatever shiite that you like because that is the 1st amendment right. However, whether or not it is moral or responsible is another issue entirely. What you are doing is IMMORAL and IRRESPONSIBLE. His birth certificate has been released, you just don't like Obama because he is BLACK and no other reason. BIGOT


bartolo
Comment posted September 8, 2009 @ 10:24 pm

Man the right wingers and republicans that keep comparing President Obama to Adolph Hitler must really be pissing off their friends, allies, and brothers in arms the Nazis with that s h i t. That must enrage them to no end when they compare a half black man as Adolph Hitler. It's the right wing Nazi's that keep getting arrested for plotting to assassinate President Obama. I swear I saw a great deal of crazy the last eight years with the idiot bUSH but man just look at these lunatics go now! They make absolutely no sense.


desser
Comment posted September 27, 2009 @ 4:51 pm

Katherine, I hear you, I'm an educated, minority, union leader who has never owned a gun ( I am researching/shopping now), but would fight to the death before I let this gov't take any of my constitutional rights away . We must be understand that many of these people are ignorant, but are reacting with legitimate fear over what this administration is doing. Most of them really just need leadership, the kind of which we are not seeing on our side. Too many politicians with weeny-ass solutions, and 90% focus on re-election. The majority of them are operating in a leadership vacuum and end up following the path of least resistance, Nazis/haters excepted.


ifjt
Comment posted November 2, 2009 @ 12:17 am

@Richard Fisher, if Barack Obama's real name is Barry..etc,. then how does the dad get to be a senior? Obama's mother was born and raised in Kansas, that makes the child a U.S. Citizen…you are a prime example of what's wrong with America. Obama went to school where his mother was (AFTER) she married his step-father who was Middle East Indian. Check your time frame. The child was already born before that union. If Kenya's records are sealed, how do you validate your argument that our now President was born in Kenya. There is no validaty to this argument. The father left his mom in Kansas with the grandmother and grandfather that helped raise Obama.

Get a life, and give up these lies about the man's birth.


ifjt
Comment posted November 2, 2009 @ 5:17 am

@Richard Fisher, if Barack Obama's real name is Barry..etc,. then how does the dad get to be a senior? Obama's mother was born and raised in Kansas, that makes the child a U.S. Citizen…you are a prime example of what's wrong with America. Obama went to school where his mother was (AFTER) she married his step-father who was Middle East Indian. Check your time frame. The child was already born before that union. If Kenya's records are sealed, how do you validate your argument that our now President was born in Kenya. There is no validaty to this argument. The father left his mom in Kansas with the grandmother and grandfather that helped raise Obama.

Get a life, and give up these lies about the man's birth.


aiashaMax
Comment posted March 24, 2010 @ 10:54 pm

Communism and totalitarianism can be imposed by any big ego. Does not matter what skin color encloses the possessed mind. Last time it was a Germanic Nazi, In Vietnam it was Asian, in China also Asian, in Italy Italian,
in Stalinist Russia, Russian, in Iran which means Aryan, it is Persian, in Venezuela, South American, In Japan, it was the Emperor.

The point is, in America, the Administration is moving this country toward total Government. In the end, it won't matter what color you are, just whether you support the guy at the top. If not, he will order your incarceration or worse. Death Toll from Total Government Regimes mentioned above exceed 100 Million Murders of a states own country men.


TURBO88
Comment posted April 11, 2010 @ 10:29 pm

Katharine, you are so right. I have had guns my whole life (bought my 1st rifle at Montgomery Ward without anyone with me when I was 7 yrs. old) But to compare Obama and Hitler??? I still remember people saying if Obama gets in, “they” are coming for your guns. You just watch.


TURBO88
Comment posted April 11, 2010 @ 10:35 pm

Richard, I will show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Palin's high school diploma.


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Comment posted September 6, 2010 @ 2:55 am

When Obama was elected to the U S Senate there were reports he was not a citizen of the US and that he was born in Kenya, where I worked on a refinery project for Royal Dutch Shell. People, who I worked with long enough to know them to be reliable, quoted publish articles in which his paternal grandmother bragged that her grandson, the Senator, being born in Mombasa, she further stated that she and his 1/2 sister were present at the birth. There was also an article in the same local weekly newspaper quoting from the Mombasa Coast Hospital birth records.


Robby
Comment posted January 19, 2011 @ 4:10 am

Your an idiot , go back and hide under your bed where its safe for u to play with yourself.


Robby
Comment posted January 19, 2011 @ 4:23 am

This looks like it would be a Blast, they should have a 4th of july event with more explosions , more fire , and some good ole southern style food.


madisonhack
Comment posted January 31, 2011 @ 8:35 pm

You are so full of shit.


Obamaman
Comment posted January 31, 2011 @ 9:00 pm

Buncha ignorant rooty poot inbred rednecks.


Anonymous
Comment posted February 16, 2011 @ 6:43 pm

Talk about frightening. Do other countries have violent hicks like this in large numbers? Scary stuff.


Anonymous
Comment posted February 16, 2011 @ 6:44 pm

http://www.thorazine.com


Wes
Comment posted February 17, 2011 @ 12:29 am

Looks like fun!
Those who don’t like Obama being compared to Hitler are amusing since Bush got way more heat and comparisons like that than Obama has, along with a high amount of “violent rhetoric,” but apparently that is ok with the left and the media. After all, if there’s one thing the left is good at, it’s being hypocrites.

Is some of the stuff tasteless and a bit of a stretch? Sure. But it’s there to make a point about Big Government. (And, yes, many neocon Republicans are guilty of being Big Government, too.)

When it comes down to it, we have here the NRA — a group that fights to uphold The Constitution — (is that supposed to be a bad thing?), and we have a bunch of law-abiding citizens enjoying a day of freedom and exercising their rights in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. Sounds good to me.


Wes
Comment posted February 17, 2011 @ 12:39 am

Oh, and Obama is on record that he’d support a ban on all semi-automatic firearms. Ridiculous. He’s also on record from a 2008 rally against Hillary that he’s against government-mandated healthcare. You can watch the video in amazement on Youtube. Who could possibly trust a guy like this? (Yes, Bush pretty much sucked too.)

And for those who don’t know how to read, The Second Amendment’s main purpose is not about self-defense or hunting.


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Comment posted February 21, 2011 @ 4:08 pm

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JTH
Comment posted April 15, 2011 @ 2:56 pm

And you don’t disparage females or their anatomy to make a point, hurp, if by “don’t” you mean “not acceptable in an even marginally civilized society.”


CaptFoster2
Comment posted April 15, 2011 @ 4:14 pm

Why do I get the feeling that Obama could decide to agree with the making of all guns legally allowed to be owned by anyone without limit and still the lunatic right-wing gun nuts among us would still find a reason to hate him.

An even scarier thought is that as unrefined as these people seem, and their lack of intellectual prowess notwithstanding, is that these people can vote! (At least for now and until the corporations take full ownership of our voting machines and some of these peoples names are similar to felons in other states and they lose that right because of the over zealousness of corporate owned Tea Party ‘elected’ officials)

But no problem… Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, or Orly Taitz will tell them who to blame later.


Anonymous
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itt: you missed the point


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Comment posted April 15, 2011 @ 5:55 pm

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Spiffy Keen
Comment posted April 15, 2011 @ 6:03 pm

I don’t mind the shirts. When people wear their prejudice on their sleeves (and backs) for all the world to see, I don’t have figure out if I want to meet them or not. It’s a huge time saver.

I think of it as a preliminary way of separating the wheat from the chaff.


Chris Herz
Comment posted April 15, 2011 @ 6:42 pm

What a bunch of gun-happy fools. The irony: As soon as the right finishes bankrupting the middle- and working-classes The Democrats will be allowed to do full gun control — can’t leave these serfs armed!


Chris Herz
Comment posted April 15, 2011 @ 6:42 pm

What a bunch of gun-happy fools. The irony: As soon as the right finishes bankrupting the middle- and working-classes The Democrats will be allowed to do full gun control — can’t leave these serfs armed!


JTH
Comment posted April 16, 2011 @ 12:08 am

I got the point. I saw it waving weakly behind that distracting boulder you put in front of it.


Anonymous
Comment posted April 16, 2011 @ 12:12 am

wait so you main point of contention is the word “cunt?”


Anonymous
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your*


Dh
Comment posted April 16, 2011 @ 1:43 am

What’s wrong fatty fat Dave, did being around all those big scary guns make your pussy hurt?


Ankhorite
Comment posted April 19, 2011 @ 3:24 am

@Dh of 4/15 — someday, Dh, you’ll graduate from high school and you’ll look back and be embarrassed that you didn’t leave vulgar genital-oriented insults behind you when you got pushed past 8th grade.


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