Conservatives Confident Their Day Is Coming

By
Friday, February 27, 2009 at 6:28 am
Tucker Carlson (AP Photo)

Tucker Carlson (AP Photo)

?Tucker Carlson closed out the first day of the Conservative Political Action Conference to a chorus of boos. His crime: informing a crowd of youngish, frustrated conservatives that if they wanted to succeed, they had to copy The New York Times.

“The New York Times is a liberal newspaper,” said Carlson. The catcalls started in. “They go out, and they get the facts.” More boos. “Conservatives need to copy that — they need to get out find out what’s going on, and not just analyze things based on what the mainstream media has reported.”

Carlson finished his speech (“thank you for indulging me”) and the day was gaveled to a close. The image on the giant screens in the Omni Shoreham’s ballroom changed to an ad for PajamasTV, which promised “analysis” of the news-just the thing that Carlson had criticized. In a parody of Apple’s “I’m a Mac, I’m a PC” ads, a staid-looking man in a suit played “mainstream media” to a hip young man’s “PajamasTV.”

“It’s my job to tell you the facts,” said Mainstream Media.

“Yeah, like Dan Rather got it right about President Bush’s service record,” said PajamasTV.

At CPAC, the annual conference of the conservative movement celebrating its 36th year, there is no question who got the better of this exchange. Carlson is wrong, and the makers of PajamasTV — who ran a souped-up media booth, sponsored several tables for bloggers, and attracted hundreds of CPAC spectators to a simultaneous “Conservatism 2.0″ conference — are right. The conservative movement lost the 2006 mid-terms and 2008 presidential because it lost its way and because the Democrats had better messaging. America is still a center-right country, and President Obama’s approval is bound to come back to earth. There is plenty of reflection on the mistakes Republicans made in power, which CPAC conservatives define as spending too much money, botching the management of Hurricane Katrina relief, and not demanding accountability from their scandalized members. There is plenty of confidence that the new president is going to push Americans back into their arms.

Image by: Matt Mahurin

Image by: Matt Mahurin

“This is probably too strong,” said Doug Haney, the city attorney in Carmel, Ind. and a Republican precinct committeeman, “but Hitler also gave great speeches.”

Attendees and speakers at the three-day event were nearly unanimous in their fear that President Obama and the Democrats were turning America into a socialist state. Political Media, a conservative public relations company, passed out faux “stimulus dollar” bills printed by “The Socialist State of America.” Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, the former presidential candidate who’d been roundly attacked by fiscal conservatives for approving tax increases, appeared shortly before 2 p.m. to give a red meat speech about the new president’s red menace.

“The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics may be dead,” said Huckabee, “but a Union of American Socialist Republics is being born.” Democrats, according to Huckabee, were packing 40 years of pet projects like “health care rationing” into spending bills. “Lenin and Stalin would love this stuff.”

There was a sense of abandon, and of political liberation, now that the party had moved past President George W. Bush and Sen. John McCain as its national figureheads. “Too many people identified the Bush administration with conservatism,” said former United Nations Ambassador John Bolton in another of one of the day’s blockbuster speeches. Bolton, of course, had been appointed to his post by George W. Bush.

Conference attendees were far kinder to Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, represented at CPAC by the pro-life group Team Sarah (founded by the pro-life Susan B. Anthony List after Palin was nominated as McCain’s running mate) and Draft Sarah Palin 2012. “I think that if she had been the candidate, if John McCain had stepped aside, she would have clearly won the election,” said Paul Streitz, the national chairman of the Palin draft group. “She did not have the weaknesses on the immigration issue and the free trade issue that McCain did. She was stronger against the bailout than McCain was. She’s shown leadership. People are willing to follow her. People believe what she says.”

But Streitz was critical of Palin for hinting that she’d appear at CPAC, and then pulling out. “She should have decided to weather the criticism, or decided not to go. Not decided and then changed her mind. I thought that was the worst possible thing to do.”

Palin was one of 10 possible 2012 candidates on a straw poll that conference attendees were encouraged to fill out, as was Huckabee, but there wasn’t much presidential buzz in the air. Attendees were more focused on upcoming special elections — there were stickers for New York congressional candidate Jim Tedisco, the Republican running for the seat of now Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand and the 2010 midterm elections. Saul Anuzis, the former chairman of the Michigan Republican Party, cited one theory that voters get a “six-year itch,” and that they’ll naturally start to turn on the Democrats after giving them two election victories. He approved of new ads in his home state that attack freshman Democratic members of Congress for supporting the stimulus package.

“The latest polling I saw only showed 52 percent of Michigan voters supporting a stimulus,” said Anuzis, who didn’t see this as a sign that the issue was good for Democrats. “It varies across the state. In that area of Oakland County where this ad is running, where all the taxpayers live, I wouldn’t be surprised if the issue goes the other way.”

Matt Varvaro, a high school student from the New York City suburbs, liked the idea of finding primary challengers for Republicans who support the stimulus package, such as Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Penn.). “Organizations like the Club for Growth have been very good at finding candidates to run against these RINOs [Republicans in Name Only],” said Varvano. “Then again, it’s ironic: the Club for Growth did that in Maryland last year and funded a challenger who beat the incumbent, who was a Republican, but lost to the Democrat. That happens sometimes.”

The focus on message and atoning for the socialist sins of previous Republicans gave some events the feel of internal monologues. Around 200 CPAC attendees packed the lunch portion of PajamasTV’s Conservatism 2.0 conference, held inside a darkened ballroom policed by numerous PJTV volunteers pointing out open seats. Chairs at the front of the room stood empty as two TV screens blinked on and beamed in Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit.com and blogger/columnist Michelle Malkin, who made arguments that they’d worked out on their blogs. Reynolds quoted science fiction writer Jerry Pournelle on the risks of letting one party get out of hand in its threat to liberty. Malkin argued that Republicans could win over minority voters by talking to them about their values. “Education,” said Malkin, “should be branded as a conservative issue.”

If the crowd at CPAC agreed that changing its message and sales pitch was the conservative movement’s biggest challenge, the message and style remained elusive. Wrapping up a speech about how the current political climate reminded him of the build-up to the 1994 elections, “when guys like me came marching in with torches,” MSNBC host and former congressman Joe Scarborough warned his audience not to go over the top. “You can’t go out there and call Barack Obama a communist.” He got fewer boos than Carlson, but he didn’t get much applause.

Editor’s Note: This story has been updated to correct a quote from Mike Huckabee.  Two copy editing errors were also corrected after publication — Gov. Sarah Palin’s title was corrected and the date of the  2008 presidential election.  We regret the errors.

Follow David Weigel on Twitter


Categories & Tags: Politics| Slot 1/Top Stories|

Comments

57 Comments

Chris Herz
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 3:47 am

Well, should the Obama administration fail to deal with Great Depression, version 2.0, we're looking at the birth of the next government. At least for the Dixie successor state.


Jesus St. Jesus
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 4:14 am

TRIG PALIN IN 2056… The Republican party is so inbred at this point that little Jindal’s, baby Bush’s and Dole’s will create a three headed VP candidate to run with him.

Cheney grandchildren, while the most intelligent of the declining brood, will be excluded from running because of their unpure adoptive bloodlines…


Breakall
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 5:09 am

This article was written in 2009, but it claims the conservative movement has already lost 2010?!?!


continuum
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 5:52 am

The CPAC light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming freight train.


Native American
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 5:54 am

Undocumented immigrants paying more taxes than you think

Eight million Undocumented immigrants pay Social Security, Medicare and income taxes. Denying public services to people who pay their taxes is an affront to America’s bedrock belief in fairness. But many “pull-up-the-drawbridge” politicians want to do just that when it comes to illegal immigrants.

The fact that Undocumented immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two thirds of Undocumented immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.

Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation’s hospitals, schools and welfare programs — consuming services that they don’t pay for.

In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified Undocumented immigrants from nearly all means tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization.

The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education. Nevertheless, Tancredo and his ilk pushed a bill through the House criminalizing all aid to illegal aliens — even private acts of charity by priests, nurses and social workers.

Potentially, any soup kitchen that offers so much as a free lunch to an illegal could face up to five years in prison and seizure of assets. The Senate bill that recently collapsed would have tempered these draconian measures against private aid.

But no one — Democrat or Republican — seems to oppose the idea of withholding public services. Earlier this year, Congress passed a law that requires everyone who gets Medicaid — the government-funded health care program for the poor — to offer proof of U.S. citizenship so we can avoid “theft of these benefits by illegal aliens,” as Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., puts it. But, immigrants aren’t flocking to the United States to mooch off the government.

According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don’t have Social Security numbers to file taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS’ scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.

No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status — a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows. What’s more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks.

Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they’ll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus.

The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year. Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children.

The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume. Yes, many illegal migrants impose a strain on border communities on whose doorstep they first arrive, broke and unemployed.

To solve this problem equitably, these communities ought to receive the surplus taxes that federal government collects from immigrants. But the real reason border communities are strained is the lack of a guest worker program.

Such a program would match willing workers with willing employers in advance so that they wouldn’t be stuck for long periods where they disembark while searching for jobs. The cost of undocumented aliens is an issue that immigrant bashers have created to whip up indignation against people they don’t want here in the first place.

With the Senate having just returned from yet another vacation and promising to revisit the stalled immigration bill, politicians ought to set the record straight: Illegals are not milking the government. If anything, it is the other way around.


Rich
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 6:15 am

Native American,
By “undocumented immigrants”, do you mean “Illegal Aliens”? I think you do. They may pay “point of sale” taxes – meaning sales taxes, fuel taxes, etc. but most don't pay income, SS or FICA taxes. The ones that do pay these taxes are doing so on ILLEGALLY obtained identifications!

So, they break our laws by entering this country by sneaking across the border, they break our laws by obtaining false identification, they break our laws by using false identification to illegally secure employment. That makes them CRIMINALS – and all of these offenses are FELONIES!! These criminals ARE NOT entitled to the same rights and priveledges as law-abiding American citizens. period.


vigilant
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 7:38 am

Cancel your print and cable subscriptions immediately. As a conservative, this is one of the few ways you can punish them for their unethical behavior and propaganda machine for the left. You will feel a huge burden lifted off you.

If you see former “reporters” in an unemployment line, be sure to tell them you sent them there by VOTING in a FAIR election – your wallet. Washington DC is next. We need to find a way to represent taxpayers, not leftists and special interests.

The key is finding a way to REVOLT. Can farmers stop planting grain? Can dairy farmers dump their milk? Can we withold taxes until the end of the year?

Don't forget to hold local politicians accountable. Stop them from taking money from DC. “Fire” them if they won't fight back.
At least we have more control over local politicians than DC.

Finally, every time you get a government employee that gives poor service, demand to speak to their superviser. Get the bad ones fired. Even if government can't , maybe we can.

Government employee head count has to go down faster than the stock market to get back on financial footing for the USA.


vigilant
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 7:41 am

I heard there's an undocumented alien living in a large, white house in DC, but pays no taxes, or at least not most of them.


Topics about Health, Food and Well being » Archive » Conservatives Confident Their Day Is Coming
Pingback posted February 27, 2009 @ 7:58 am

[...] The Washington Independent placed an interesting blog post on Conservatives Confident Their Day Is ComingHere’s a brief overviewTucker Carlson (AP Photo) ?Tucker Carlson closed out the first day of the Conservative Political Action Conference to a chorus of boos. His crime: informing a crowd of youngish, frustrated conservatives that if they wanted to succeed, they had to copy The New York Times. “The New York Times is a liberal newspaper,” said Carlson. The catcalls started in. “They go out, and they get the facts.” More boos. “Conservatives need to copy that-they need to get out find out what’s going on, and not [...]


Michelle Malkin » The whitewashing of Gary Locke — and why Tucker Carlson deserved to be booed
Pingback posted February 27, 2009 @ 7:58 am

[...] Yeah, he really said we need to copy the New York Times. [...]


Arbe
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 8:15 am

You are an idiot…


Instapundit » Blog Archive » TUCKER CARLSON IS WRONG, says David Weigel….
Pingback posted February 27, 2009 @ 8:24 am

[...] TUCKER CARLSON IS WRONG, says David Weigel. [...]


cullen
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 8:40 am

“Then again, it’s ironic: the Club for Growth did that in Maryland last year and funded a challenger who beat the incumbent, who was a Republican, but lost to the Democrat. That happens sometimes.”

Really? How could that happen?


seethelight
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 9:01 am

Conservatives are doomed to complete irrelevancy if the best they can offer is a new sales pitch for the lack of new ideas. How's that strategy been working for GM, Ford and Chrysler? Shiny and happy tv ads for cars that suck! Even rank and file conservatives will see through it and continue to flee the Republican Party.


Notes From Planet Conservatism, Tucker Carlson Edition - World News 24/365
Pingback posted February 27, 2009 @ 10:30 am

[...] Editor David Weigel reports from the Conservative Political Action Conference for the Washington Independent, and discovers [...]


Hawaiianstyle
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 11:13 am

Instead of crying about socialism how about telling me why Capitalism is so great.

Did Socialism get us in the present financial fix? Did Socialists push irresponsible financial policies and practices that lead to the present depression? What in the Capitalist philosophy was neglected so that had it been followed it could have saved us from all the tragedy and misery that MANY Americans are in as a result of many years of following a more and more Capitalist philosophy?

Capitalism is a philosophy of “Greed is Good.” We have been conned into believing unrestricted Capitalism is the American Way. Somehow we feel proud of being Capitalists. We feel that Capitalism is the same as being a “Free People.”

Sorry but this is just a rich man's con job. Historically in the US I would argue that the major financial ills inflicted on the US public have been done by unrestrained Capitalism and Capitalists.

Government's job, if it is to be a government for all the people, is to help those that need it. Capitalists claim that when they make the money then they can share it, or their workers will earn a wage for themselves. Using the Regan and after years show me how that has worked.


Hawaiianstyle
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 11:15 am

You may have “heard” it. I hope you don't believe it.

I heard the world is six million years old, and the moon is made of green cheese.


Judy
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 11:23 am

<“I think that if she had been the candidate, if John McCain had stepped aside, she would have clearly won the election,” said Paul Streitz, the national chairman of the Palin draft group.>

In what kind of la-la land are the republicans living? Palin was the nail in their coffin.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 11:59 am

Carlson is completely wrong: what we need is more blog-level analysis, especially of the Pajamas Media variety. /sarcasm

For an example of the perniciousness of Pajamas Media, they converted Joe the Plumber – someone who got famous for asking a question – into a “reporter” and then a talk show host, with the later being in an echo chamber that few watched.

And, they're currently involved in promoting protests that will have little or no impact because a) the numbers attending are relatively small, b) the message being pushed in one that only a small number of people would sign on to, and c) almost all of those attending voted for someone who opposed the stimulus.

What Pajamas Media has refused to do is something that would be far more effective: confronting politicians with their lies or the flaws in their policies to their face on video in the form of questions. The responses can then be uploaded to Youtube where hundreds of thousands will see them and that will have an impact on the politicians' career. Something like that will send a much louder message than the worthless things Pajamas Media pushes; it's almost like they don't want to do anything besides put on a show.

For anyone interested, here's a question about the stimulus you can ask. Don't wait for hacks like Dave Weigel to ask that: his cross-examination efforts are limited to those who have no power and no protectors, such as Larry Sinclair.


Shane Vander Hart
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 12:12 pm

Hey, my 10-year old son could probably think of a more intelligent comeback than that.


Dick Hertz
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 12:12 pm

How would you keep Fox News in business then? I suggest you follow your own policies here and see where that gets you, America hater. Take your nationalist socialism and ram it up your snout because we're not into that nazi stuff you are always talking about.


Shane Vander Hart
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 12:14 pm

I wouldn't say that PJTV is the wave of the future, but I certainly disagree with Tucker Carlson that conservative media needs to emulate the New York Times.

I agree reporting needs to be factual, but to lift the Times up as an example is laughable.


Guy Smiley
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

24D!ckheadDotCom said:

“For an example of the perniciousness of Pajamas Media, they converted Joe the Plumber – someone who got famous for asking a question – into a “reporter” and then a talk show host, with the latter being in an echo chamber that few watched.”

Yeah, who would want someone who asked a question to be a reporter? Especially when they could have hired a blogwh0ring d!ckwad with penis envy instead.


Jane
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 12:53 pm

Careful, Hawaiianstyle. You don't want to be responsible for brains which are conditioned to detonate at the sound of the word “socialism.”

When conservatives wave their collective Admonishing Finger and cry of the evils of socialism, I hear something along the lines of this: “Puppies, kittens, and chocolate ice cream are going to take away our FREEDOM!” This confuses me. Tell me what is so terrifying about the idea of affordable, accessible healthcare and education for everyone?

I've been out of the country as much as financially possible. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, but the money others allot for new cars and tvs is saved so I can see other lands and cultures. Some conservatives in this country are so arrogant (in addition to sneering at those who do like to travel – remember Palin's belief that only “trust fund” kids could afford to go to Europe?) in their opinions that the US has nothing to learn from anyone else.

My immigrant friends here come for the experience, but most prefer not to pursue citizenship (unless they can pull of a duel situation), opting instead for the flexibility of a green card, for good reason. My own boyfriend went back to visit his native country over the summer, and they have a lovely national healthcare plan. Despite the fact he was not insured, he paid a total of $125 for two root canals and x-rays. Honestly, I don't know of any place in the States this is possible…other than a butcher!

Capitalism (like everything else) in moderation is great. It becomes a problem when citizens begin to confuse the reasonable definition with a Laissez-faire mentality, essentially: “screw everyone else – sucks to be you!”


Jane
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 12:58 pm

You're one step away from retreating to the bomb shelter in your compound.

I wonder if Rush transmits his message via ham radio frequency! ;)


Jane
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 1:00 pm

Why don't you go lecture all the small (and larger) business owners who employ these immigrants?


Jane
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 1:02 pm

He has his work cut out for him.


24AheadDotCom
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 1:28 pm

My apologies to everyone else, but for the low-IQ/too cowardly to reveal who they are crowd, I should mention that Joe the Plumber got famous for asking BHO an adversarial question. That's a bit different from what he did for PJM.

From http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=d95iej9…
[JTP] tells WNWO-TV in Toledo that he wants to let Israel's “'Average Joes' share their story.”

That's not adversarial, ask-politicians-tough-questions reporting.

Pajamas Media then converted him into an echo chamber host; apparently the only people who watched it were his leftwing opponents:

http://www.memeorandum.com/090212/p82#a090212p82

Pajamas Media and Weigel are both pernicious influences, it's just that PJM has much more influence.


Lawnguylander
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 2:26 pm

Shhhhh, what are you trying to do? Don't tell them that. Let them go on thinking she's their savior. Let them think promoting Joe the Plumber as an icon of conservative thought is a smart thing to do too.


Gone Gulchin'
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 3:21 pm

“Did Socialism get us in the present financial fix? Did Socialists push irresponsible financial policies and practices that lead to the present depression?”

Why yes, yes it did as a matter of fact. It was the Socialist part of our mixed economy that failed and brought us to this low low place. That's how Socialism rolls, dontcha know.

“Government's job, if it is to be a government for all the people, is to help those that need it.”

Actually, that's not our government's job at all. Our government exists to protect liberty, including economic Liberty.

“Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another–their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.

But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich–will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt–and of his life, as he deserves.

“Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard–the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money–the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law–men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims–then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

“Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion–when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing–when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors–when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you–when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice–you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot. “
–Francisco d'Anconia

“Government ‘help’ to business is just as disastrous as government persecution… the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off.”
–Ayn Rand


agorabum
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 5:45 pm

6 million? That's crazy. Everyone knows it's only 6000 years old.
and fossils are just demon skeletons planted to tempt our souls (probably by Obama, who is clearly the anti-christ and/or hitler and/or OJ Simpson)


madprof44
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 7:26 pm

Couldn't agree more. The country will see protests by conservatives as mindless reaction, especially since it is a policy and not a person that is at issue. The numbers will — have –start out small and dwindle. Video cameras in the faces of the mindless politicos who've never seen a camera they didn't like will be much more effective.


madprof44
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 7:46 pm

What is terrible about “affordable healthcare” as has been achieved in Europe is what follows: breast and colon cancer death rates in Britain, double those in the US (for the total population, insured and uninsured)' the bribery required in many places (hidden as in Italy by “private clinics”, the ones your “free” physician tells you you have to go to if you want a minimal standard of care); the slippery slope of involuntary euthanasia; the disappearance of the American refuge for Canadians who want their loved ones to receive the best of care. France does it well, true, but the French state unlike ours works, in part because it protects its bureaucrats behind a wall of privilege few Americans would tolerate. And of course it is going broke faster than we are. Progress in medical technology and pharmacology in Europe has come to a standstill relative to its achievements in the past. largely due to the bureaucrats who now decide what is cost effective and not. Make you a bet: have a loved one with cancer in Italy be diagnosed with cancer (as I have), you win if you think she is better off there.


madprof44
Comment posted February 27, 2009 @ 7:58 pm

The response was intemperate, true, but but the comments on this page seem to confirm the empirical research that conservatives are better able to give an adequate account of liberal positions than the reverse. Bush is gone. Nazi scum in their heavily weaponized bomb shelters is so early oughts.


Regarding Free-Market Capitalism « Just Above Sunset
Pingback posted February 28, 2009 @ 1:35 am

[...] Of course at this year’s CPAC convention, they have found their answer – Attendees See a New Sales Pitch, Not Change in Values, as Key to Success. [...]


merl
Comment posted February 28, 2009 @ 4:25 am

center right nation? based on what? not the election results, surely


Hawaiianstyle
Comment posted February 28, 2009 @ 9:17 am

Aloha,

Hs


Hawaiianstyle
Comment posted February 28, 2009 @ 9:18 am

Aloha,

Hs


Matthew Yglesias » Huckabee Making Strong Bid to Lose “Likeable Conservative” Credentials
Pingback posted February 28, 2009 @ 11:28 am

[...] his conservatism with real Christian values like generosity and humility. And then there’s this guy: “The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics may be dead,” said Huckabee, “but a [...]


Jane
Comment posted February 28, 2009 @ 1:00 pm

testing…testing…


Jane
Comment posted February 28, 2009 @ 1:03 pm

testing


Jane
Comment posted February 28, 2009 @ 1:22 pm

Sorry for the multiple postings. My first comment was eaten by the servers (I guess they don't like dissenting opinions), but I'll sum up what I wrote the first time:

First, this article contains some info that contradicts your claims:
http://www.articlesbase.com/women%27s-health-ar…

Second, cancer rates worldwide are volatile, given the fact that diet and lifestyle has such an effect. These kinds of inconsistent statistics are kind of difficult to apply when advocating any healthcare system. Perhaps a better indicator would be infant mortality rates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_…

Don't you think a country like the US ought to be a LITTLE higher on that list?

I'll see your loved one in Italy, and raise you a deceased mom: the only reasons she received top notch in-home hospice care are as follows: A) she used to work in the HMO that was providing care, B) her husband was still a respected doctor in said HMO, and C) the organization was located in a region that encouraged availability of alternative therapies alongside traditional ones; she was able to obtain acupuncture and reiki along with her unlimited meds. You know as well as I do that most Americans would be not be quite so lucky.

And no, affordable healthcare is not terrible, given the fact that so many Americans currently can't afford basic services. How is getting no healthcare EVER better than getting some?? I currently pay for my own insurance through a freelancer group, and the sweet irony is that I still have to put some care on hold due to my outrageous specialist copays and prescription deductible (basically it's a glorified catastrophic plan, yay!). You seem pretty confident that the situation is better in the US than everywhere else, but my foreign friends would all disagree with you (not to mention my American peers currently being hounded by collection agencies over emergency room bills they cannot possibly pay). In fact, my international friends' parents all worry about them while they stay on American soil.

On a larger scale, no one is denying that profit is a factor in research. There is a place for profit, but it is not the end all and be all of medicine. Why aren't we working as a country to rid ourselves of for-profit insurance companies? HOW DOES ANYONE (other than those profiting directly) BENEFIT FROM THIS SYSTEM (to be honest, I'm actually flabbergasted that more of the conservative Christian movement isn't upset over the morality of denying care to those who need it)? If we could at least provide a baseline level of care for those who need it, there are others who will always pay for upgrades.

My boyfriend went back to his native country for a visit over the summer, and had two wisdom teeth removed. Even though he is not covered, the whole procedure (along with x-rays) cost him about $125 total!


Jane
Comment posted February 28, 2009 @ 1:24 pm

Also, how are we supposed to remain a leading country if so many of our citizens are sick? The veneer of healthy, wealthy people is not enough of an infrastructure to support a rotting interior. That's just common sense.


Jane
Comment posted February 28, 2009 @ 1:39 pm

Sorry for the multiple postings. My first comments were eaten by the servers (I guess they don't like dissenting opinions!), but I'll sum up what I wrote the first time:

First, this article contains some info that contradicts your claims:
http://www.articlesbase.com/women%27s-health-ar…

Second, cancer rates worldwide are volatile, given the fact that diet and lifestyle has such an effect. These kinds of inconsistent statistics are kind of difficult to apply when advocating any healthcare system. Perhaps a better indicator would be infant mortality rates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_…

Don't you think a country like the US ought to be a LITTLE higher on that list?

I'll see your loved one in Italy, and raise you a deceased mom: the only reasons she received top notch in-home hospice care are as follows: A) she used to work in the HMO that was providing care, B) her husband was still a respected doctor in said HMO, and C) the organization was located in a region that encouraged availability of alternative therapies alongside traditional ones; she was able to obtain acupuncture and reiki along with her unlimited meds. You know as well as I do that most Americans would be not be quite so lucky.

And no, affordable healthcare is not terrible, given the fact that so many Americans currently can't afford basic services. How is getting no healthcare EVER better than getting some?? I currently pay for my own insurance through a freelancer group, and the sweet irony is that I still have to put some care on hold due to my outrageous specialist copays and prescription deductible (basically it's a glorified catastrophic plan, yay!). You seem pretty confident that the situation is better in the US than everywhere else, but my foreign friends would all disagree with you (not to mention my American peers currently being hounded by collection agencies over emergency room bills they cannot possibly pay). In fact, my international friends' parents all worry about them while they stay on American soil.

On a larger scale, no one is denying that profit is a factor in research. There is a place for profit, but it is not the end all and be all of medicine. Why aren't we working as a country to rid ourselves of for-profit insurance companies? HOW DOES ANYONE (other than those profiting directly) BENEFIT FROM THIS SYSTEM (to be honest, I'm actually flabbergasted that more of the conservative Christian movement isn't upset over the morality of denying care to those who need it)? If we could at least provide a baseline level of care for those who need it, there are others who will always pay for upgrades.

My boyfriend went back to his native country for a visit over the summer, and had two wisdom teeth removed. Even though he is not covered, the whole procedure (along with x-rays) cost him about $125 total!


Jane
Comment posted March 1, 2009 @ 2:56 pm

Well, my first comment was eaten by the servers (I guess they don't like dissenting opinions), but I'll sum up what I wrote the first time:

First, this article contains some info that contradicts your claims:
http://www.articlesbase.com/women%27s-health-ar…

Second, cancer rates worldwide are volatile, given the fact that diet and lifestyle has such an effect. These kinds of inconsistent statistics are kind of difficult to apply when advocating any healthcare system. Perhaps a better indicator would be infant mortality rates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_…

Don't you think a country like the US ought to be a LITTLE higher on that list?

I'll see your loved one in Italy, and raise you a deceased mom: the only reasons she received top notch in-home hospice care are as follows: A) she used to work in the HMO that was providing care, B) her husband was still a respected doctor in said HMO, and C) the organization was located in a region that encouraged availability of alternative therapies alongside traditional ones; she was able to obtain acupuncture and reiki along with her unlimited meds. You know as well as I do that most Americans would be not be quite so lucky.

And no, affordable healthcare is not terrible, given the fact that so many Americans currently can't afford basic services. How is getting no healthcare EVER better than getting some?? I currently pay for my own insurance through a freelancer group, and the sweet irony is that I still have to put some care on hold due to my outrageous specialist copays and prescription deductible (basically it's a glorified catastrophic plan, yay!). You seem pretty confident that the situation is better in the US than everywhere else, but my foreign friends would all disagree with you (not to mention my American peers currently being hounded by collection agencies over emergency room bills they cannot possibly pay). In fact, my international friends' parents all worry about them while they stay on American soil.

On a larger scale, no one is denying that profit is a factor in research. There is a place for profit, but it is not the end all and be all of medicine. Why aren't we working as a country to rid ourselves of for-profit insurance companies? HOW DOES ANYONE (other than those profiting directly) BENEFIT FROM THIS SYSTEM (to be honest, I'm actually flabbergasted that more of the conservative Christian movement isn't upset over the morality of denying care to those who need it)? If we could at least provide a baseline level of care for those who need it, there are others who will always pay for upgrades.

My boyfriend went back to his native country for a visit over the summer, and had two wisdom teeth removed. Even though he is not covered, the whole procedure (along with x-rays) cost him about $125 total!


1brewer07
Comment posted March 4, 2009 @ 9:12 am

You guys had the stage for the last decade and look what was accomplished…the country in financial ruins, people losing joibs and homes. With the loss of jobs comes loss of health insurance which youy must pray not to become ill. No job means NO INCOME INTO THE GOVERMENT. That means more debt, and lets not forget about the 4500 KILLED in an ILLEGAL WAR. Yes we as a country will wait with baited breath for the republican return to power…


Carl Rose
Comment posted March 5, 2009 @ 6:09 am

I am ever so glad your day is coming. I just hope it is NOT IN MY LIFETIME. CPAC was a genuine HATE FEST. No ideas, just we hate, we hate, and we hate more. With the RUSH / COULTER / JOE, the almost plumber we hate campaign.

No wonder the end of the world is being talked about.


Truth Hammer
Comment posted March 10, 2009 @ 9:55 am

You conservatives had your chance and you blew it ! Just read ” Takeover” by Charlie Savage , or ” House of Bush , House of Saud ” by Craig Unger and please tell me I am wrong !


Truth Hammer
Comment posted March 10, 2009 @ 4:55 pm

You conservatives had your chance and you blew it ! Just read ” Takeover” by Charlie Savage , or ” House of Bush , House of Saud ” by Craig Unger and please tell me I am wrong !


The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : The Scold Returns
Pingback posted March 18, 2009 @ 5:37 pm

[...] Carlson–my initial choice for president in 2008; not a popular one, apparently–has posted a great takedown of the sanctimonious and preening Jon Stewart, which [...]


Liberal Washington Post Going Liberal!
Pingback posted May 5, 2010 @ 2:11 pm

[...] But it’s not, as Smith suggests, a story of ideology (though Tucker Carlson and David Frum might tell you that conservative publications place less emphasis on reporting and that accounts for why liberals [...]


Ben Smith is a weasel « Ezra, Master of the Universe
Pingback posted May 5, 2010 @ 2:31 pm

[...] it’s not, as Smith suggests, a story of ideology (though Tucker Carlson and David Frum might tell you that conservative publications place less emphasis on reporting and that accounts for why liberals [...]


Weigelgate… Bigotgate… Let Us All Tweet Our Name For The Gate « Around The Sphere
Pingback posted May 8, 2010 @ 9:39 am

[...] it’s not, as Smith suggests, a story of ideology (though Tucker Carlson and David Frum might tell you that conservative publications place less emphasis on reporting and that accounts for why liberals [...]


lv purse
Comment posted August 7, 2010 @ 4:59 pm

You guys had the stage for the last decade and look what was accomplished…the country in financial ruins, people losing joibs and homes. With the loss of jobs comes loss of health insurance which youy must pray not to become ill. No job means NO INCOME INTO THE GOVERMENT. That means more debt, and lets not forget about the 4500 KILLED in an ILLEGAL WAR. Yes we as a country will wait with baited breath for the republican return to power…


New York Walking Tours
Comment posted August 21, 2010 @ 7:53 pm

i absolutely agree with your point of view.


4405445
Comment posted September 7, 2011 @ 12:45 pm

4405445 beers on the wall. sck was here


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